Author Topic: MIDI to GK ? (or 13 Pin "Re-Amping"?)  (Read 2093 times)

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Offline thestunning

MIDI to GK ? (or 13 Pin "Re-Amping"?)
« on: September 28, 2013, 02:22:24 AM »
Hello, I'd like to know if it's possible to convert MIDI signal to GK signal.

I already know GR-55 can't be used as sound module via its MIDI input though.

but if there is a converter kinda MIDI to GK, I think It's possible.

Any solution ?

« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 05:10:37 PM by Elantric »

Offline Elantric

Re: MIDI to GK ? (or 13 Pin "Re-Amping"?)
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2013, 03:00:55 AM »
One approach would be to use a Mac / PC with an audio interface that supports 6 channel analog output.

Use a DAW (Sonar,Logic,Cubase,Reaper,Ableton, StudioOne) and spread the MIDi to 6 separate tracks, and assign each MIDI track to a dedicated separate Analog Output . Then build a cable snake with 6 TRS male phone plugs at one end and at the other end have 13 PIN DIN Male plug.

(Could use a RMC Fanout Box or a BillBax Breakout Box )- and feed the 13 pin input on GR-55 / VG-99
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 08:18:47 AM by Elantric »

Offline JolietJake

Re: MIDI to GK ? (or 13 Pin "Re-Amping"?)
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2013, 04:11:06 AM »
Since the audio to midi interface is already built into the GR-55 I would have thought that it would be possible at least to some extent to simply play a clean audio signal such as a sine wave direct into one of the 6 signal in paths.

I know that there may be some kind of filtering for each string but how much this would affect the signal I'm uncertain without experimenting. However I think if you select the 3rd or 4th string input then even with filtering you would probably get a useful range of notes from the input.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 08:19:01 AM by Elantric »

Offline Elantric

Re: MIDI to GK ? (or 13 Pin "Re-Amping"?)
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2013, 08:07:30 AM »
Since the audio to midi interface is already built into the GR-55 I would have thought that it would be possible at least to some extent to simply play a clean audio signal such as a sine wave direct into one of the 6 signal in paths.

Correct - this requires no MIDI , instead it defines a concept known by power users as "13 pin re-amping". 
Owners of the RMC Fanout box have been working with this  approach in the studio since the late 1990s .
and is partially explained on the feature /functiooal description of the RMC Fanout box's capabilities on the RMC Website

The novel concept of using polyphonic pickup systems for Multi-Track/Multi-Channel Polyphonic (MTMCP) processing and recording/editing opens huge new horizons for guitarists and bassists.

In the past, only a handful of technically inclined virtuosos used it in their private state-of-the-art studios to create and maintain a technical edge over other players.

More recently, guitarists and bassists have been capable of superior MIDI access and polyphonic processing using our proprietary pickup and Active Electronics technologies in conjunction with state-of-the-art pitch-to-MIDI converters and Digital Signal Processors.

The advent of hard disk recording has made large numbers of data tracks much more affordable. Electric musicians have entered an era of desktop sound recording/editing in which new tools and techniques are required in order to support the flow of creativity.

We were able to refine this concept further, and designed a highly efficient patch bay and mix unit that makes MTMCP processing and recording easy and economical for everyone.

Using a FANOUT BOX for routing the signals, it is now possible to simultaneously record separate string signal information on separate tracks, and then play the recorded signals back into the guitar/synth, possibly after discrete string signal editing (to clean-up the tracks and optimize tracking performance).

The source information of Live guitar/synth and/or polyphonic processor (Roland VG-8) performances can now be properly recorded, documented, edited and downmixed with full access to processor parameter adjustments during mixdown.

It is now possible to adjust pitch-to-MIDI converter parameters to optimize the MIDI data produced by the recorded performance, instead of having to restrict the player's style within the possibilities of preset or default parameter settings in the converter or processor.

This concept is further potentialized by the ability of pitch-to-MIDI converters and high-end polyphonic processors to change certain parameter values & settings using MIDI commands.

A Master Class featuring performances by a virtuoso explaining his or her style can produce more specific information to be reviewed after the performance, for a deeper understanding of the artist's playing and ideas. Of course, self-study at all playing levels is significantly improved.

This empowers musicians, sound engineers, producers and teachers alike. It works to minimize production time & cost while maximizing the quality of the finished musical product.

Half-Rack format for efficient use of rack space
Compatible with all current MIDI converters: Roland GR-09, GR-1, GI-10, GR-30, Yamaha G50, AXON NG-66, AXON AX-100 etc...
Compatible with all current Polyphonic Processors: Roland VG-8, etc...
Allows one instrumetn to drive 2 Guitar Synths or 1 Guitar Synth or MIDI Converter and 1 Polyphonic Processor simultaneously
Provides 6 separate String Outputs (jacks 1-6) for connection to 6 separate inputs of sound mixing console or P.A. system
Independent A & B custom mixes with independent String Select Switching for string splits & stereo sound
Independent A & B loops for split or stereo effects
Studio quality performance 90dB S/N typical
Poly IN accepts standard 13-pin connection and is connected to ring connections of jacks #1-11 so they can be used as discrete outputs
Poly OUT 1 jack connected to tips of jacks #1-11 so they can also be used as inputs (I/O port configuration)
Poly OUT 2 jack parallel to Poly IN jack allows independent control of second Polyphonic Processor or Guitar Synth
Remote D.C. Volume (Synth Vol.) jack
Remote SW 1 and SW 2 jacks
Access to pin 9 (spare line in Roland pinout) useful for additional custom remote control features
The FANOUT BOX is a polyphonic Patch Bay and Mix unit which allows the separate string signals of a polyphonic guitar or bass to be individually routed to an array of amplifiers, a sound console or a multi-track recording system. It also allows the separate recorded tracks to be played back into a pitch-to-MIDI converter or other Polyphonic processor. This provides the musician with full polyphonic control over recording, mixdown, processing and amplification. The unit also provides two Custom String Mixes (A & B) each one with its discrete Loop (send/return) connection for separate external processing, as well as a Mono Out for the main instrument signal.

The FANOUT BOX also allows a single polyphonic instrument to drive two different polyphonic units by using Poly-OUT 1 jack on the front panel, and Poly-OUT 2 jack on the back panel.

Because most of the connections in the unit are of the I/O (input/output) type, it is possible to use the FANOUT BOX to connect a microphone or other monophonic Live or recorded signal source to a guitar/synth or guitar-to-MIDI converter for single-note pitch detection applications.

The 2-pound half-rack unit is very easy to use. The User Maual is brief and easy to read. The possibilities are limitless . . .

Many of our customers are using the unit in conjunction with our line of pickups and polyphonic Active Electronics to connect separate string signals to different overdrive/delay processors and amplifiers for incredible acoustic and electric effects onstage and in the studio.

Remember that once the RMC Fanout Box is connected to your multichannel analog I/o Audio interface and a DAW - you no longer need guitar to drive your VG-8.VG-88,VG-99,GR-55  - Could be output from a soft synth or acoustic instruments or Piano, and use the VG-99  or GR-55 as an audio processor for any audio track , or live audio feed - even vocals!

Today BillBax produces 13 pin Breakout boxes with similar capabilities  - with videos describing some of this "13 pin re-amping" process here

{FROM BillBax's Separate Strings website}

Welcome to Separate Strings - a hardware resource page for anyone wishing to explore the universal possibilities in recording and playing separate guitar strings.

The benefits of recording separate strings, including ‘normal’ mono guitar re-amping, have long been known to music producers and elite guitar players.  1995 saw the arrival of Roland’s first widely available hexaphonic pickup and v-guitar synth - GK2A and VG8.  This new technology opened an exciting world of exploration in guitar tones, as before you would have needed access to dozens of guitars, amps and effects.

‘V-Guitar Synth - ‘play a bit…adjust a bit’. Finding an exact tone using a v-synth is usually a very tiring process. After 30-40 dial twiddles and button presses, you can easily find yourself settling on a tone that sounds approximately right. The problem with ‘play a bit, adjust a bit’, is your hands are not free to concentrate and explore the wealth of patch permutations. Effectively, you are left with a guitar tone that sounds poor in comparison to a world-class professional guitar player.   

Break-Out Box interface.  A breakout box allows a hex-pickup and v-synth user to record separate strings performances to a multi-track or DAW (digital Audio Workstation). With each string recorded onto a separate audio track, this allows further separate string enhancements with software editing, such as: split, copy, paste, move, delete, normalise, volume and re-tune.  Note. Software separate string enhancements can be discrete as well as extreme. You can choose light and subtle separate string improvements, by correcting a slightly ‘flat’ or ‘sharp’ note, or go extreme and edit every separate string event. Moderate and sensible string improvements usually work best, correcting flat notes, quiet notes in a chord and timing errors etc.

Break-In Box & hands-free v-synth patch changing.  Armed with a your studio quality separate string recordings routed to your v-synth via the ‘break-in box’, you can begin hands-free v-synth patch changing. Without the tedious ‘play a bit, adjust a bit’ nag, it is possible to review hundreds of patch permutations in a short time. As where before with ‘play a bit, adjust a bit’, you might only reach 50 or so adjustments, and then settle on a poorly researched patch.

As a guitar player and breakout box designer, I am confident once you have experienced recording and playing separate strings, you will think twice about recording a guitar in mono or stereo again!

Bill Baxendale - May 2013

« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 10:16:49 AM by admsustainiac »

Offline Elantric

Re: MIDI to GK ? (or 13 Pin "Re-Amping"?)
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2015, 11:10:32 AM »
Old thread - but wanted to inform the Boss GP-10 provides  "13 Pin "Re-Guitar /Re-Amping" ) with just a USB cable to your PC/Mac

Boss GP-10 F.A.Q.


Offline scheater5

Re: MIDI to GK ? (or 13 Pin "Re-Amping"?)
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2015, 02:26:12 PM »
@Elantric So could I use a GP-10 and a laptop/tablet to send a Fishman Triple Play to a GP-10 and have a wireless GP-10? 
I love the GP-10 (which I use exclusively as a "variax"), but I avoid using it live whenever possible because 13 pin cables suck.

Offline Elantric

Re: MIDI to GK ? (or 13 Pin "Re-Amping"?)
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2015, 04:51:24 PM »
So could I use a GP-10 and a laptop/tablet to send a Fishman Triple Play to a GP-10 and have a wireless GP-10? 

No - read why here:

« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 05:03:04 PM by Elantric »