GR-55 - Are there MIDI equivalents for CTL/EXP switch?

Started by creart, June 09, 2013, 04:05:52 AM

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creart

Hi
I may have missed it, but are there MIDI equivalents for the CTL switch and the EXP switch?
In other words, I use an FCB 1010 - can I use one of those switches to control the CTL for instance?
I know I can do MIDI assignments per patch and that will work, but does the GR55 respond straight away to an external midi controller number for CTL and EXP switch in such a way that I wouldn't have to go in per patch?
Like it responds to midi controller 7 for volume or a program change?

I hope you understand what I mean

cheers
Hans

Elantric

#1
QuoteRe: Are there MIDI equivalents for CTL/EXP switch?

Neither the CTL switch or Expression Pedal, or Hold Function or Phrase Looper are assignable targets for  remote MIDI CC# control.





Find all GR-55 MIDI Assignments midway down this thread



GR-55 FAQ: TOP THINGS TO KNOW
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4006.0


=======

GR-55 will accept MIDI program change commands  -AFTER you enable MIDI Patch change reception.

And set the correct MIDI Channel too (PATCH CH = 1 thru 16)

To enable MIDI Patch change reception set (PC RX Switch = ON)

See the Youtube demo here:
Roland GR-55: Assigning a MIDI Control Change message (CC#) from an FC-300


See GR-55 Owners Manual page 79


In regards to MIDI CC# control, the GR-55 restricts you to a total of eight simultaneous MIDI Continuous Controllers which you must manually assign yourself to the desired GR-55 Effect,Parameter, or function.

Of the hundreds of available GR-55 effect parameters, only 8 can be controlled using MIDI CC# for any given patch.


This is a list of ALL available Control sources for the  GR-55:
(Observe  that not all MIDI CC# (1 thru 128) are available)
You may create Eight Total Control Assign Sources from the possible controllers in this list.




"This is a list of ALL available GR-55 FX Parameter Targets you may control remotely using the EIGHT Control Source Assignments from the list above:"
















Gumtown wrote>


List of Standard MIDI Continuous Controllers (CC's)
Here is a list of the standard MIDI continuous controllers. Use these controllers to manipulate your MIDI data to make the music more expressive. You use these to add expressive devices like add vibrato, add abrupt or gradual volume changes, add and control the amount of reverb, tremolo, and/or chorus, and so on. The most commonly used CC's are in bold typeface

For most controllers marked (on/off) controllers, on=127 and off=0. For all others, the higher the value, the more intense the effect is.

Note: Not all synthesizers respond to all CC's. There should be a list in your synth manual. It's usually in the back and it is usually called the MIDI implementation chart. If you don't have the manual or can't google one, try a few to see if they work. If you find this page helpful, feel free to link to it.

CC number and Description

0 Bank Select (MSB)
(followed by cc32 & Program Change)
1 Modulation Wheel
2 Breath controller
4 Foot Pedal (MSB)
5 Portamento Time (MSB)
Only use this for portamento time use cc65 to turn on/off
6 Data Entry (MSB)
if you follow cc100=0 & cc101=0 this is pitch bend range
7 Volume (MSB)
Note: CC7 and 11 both adjust the volume. Use cc7 as you would the control on the amplifier - set it and leave it at the beginning of the MIDI track
8 Balance (MSB) Some synths use it
10 Pan position (MSB)
11 Expression (MSB)
Note: CC7 and 11 both adjust the volume. Use cc11 for volume changes during the track (crescendo, diminuendo, swells, etc.)
12 Effect Control 1 (MSB)
13 Effect Control 2 (MSB)
14 Undefined
15 Undefined
16 Ribbon Controller or General Purpose Slider 1
17 Knob 1 or General Purpose Slider 2
18 General Purpose Slider 3
19 Knob 2 General Purpose Slider 4
20 Knob 3 or Undefined
21 Knob 4 or Undefined

22-31 are undefined, available for use by synths that let you assign controllers.

32 Bank Select (LSB) (see cc0)
33 Modulation Wheel (LSB)
34 Breath controller (LSB)
36 Foot Pedal (LSB)
37 Portamento Time (LSB)
38 Data Entry (LSB)
39 Volume (LSB)
40 Balance (LSB)
42 Pan position (LSB)
43 Expression (LSB)
44 Effect Control 1 (LSB) Roland Portamento on and rate
45 Effect Control 2 (LSB)
46-63 may be in use as the LSB for controllers 14-31 in some devices, but I have not seen one yet.
64 Hold Pedal (on/off)
Nearly every synth will react to 64 (sustain pedal)
65 Portamento (on/off)
66 Sustenuto Pedal (on/off)
67 Soft Pedal (on/off)
68 Legato Pedal (on/off)
69 Hold 2 Pedal (on/off)
70 Sound Variation
71 Resonance (aka Timbre)
72 Sound Release Time
73 Sound Attack Time
74 Frequency Cutoff (aka Brightness )
75 Sound Control 6
76 Sound Control 7
77 Sound Control 8
78 Sound Control 9
79 Sound Control 10
80 Decay or General Purpose Button 1 (on/off) Roland Tone level 1
81 Hi Pass Filter Frequency or General Purpose Button 2 (on/off) Roland Tone level 2
82 General Purpose Button 3 (on/off) Roland Tone level 3
83 General Purpose Button 4 (on/off) Roland Tone level 4
91 Reverb Level
92 Tremolo Level
93 Chorus Level
94 Celeste Level or Detune
95 Phaser Level

It's probably best not to use the group below for assigning controllers.?
96 Data Button increment
97 Data Button decrement
98 Non-registered Parameter (LSB)
99 Non-registered Parameter (MSB)
100 Registered Parameter (LSB)
101 Registered Parameter (MSB)

It's very important that you do not use these no matter what unless you want to invoke these functions
120 All Sound Off
121 All Controllers Off
122 Local Keyboard (on/off)
You might actually crash your keyboard if you use this one.
123 All Notes Off

You typically don't want your synths to change modes on you in the middle of making a song, so don't use these.
124 Omni Mode Off
125 Omni Mode On
126 Mono Operation
127 Poly Operation


=================

* GR-55 CONTROL ASSIGN PROBLEMS?
Some of the factory Preset patches in the GR-55 have the CTL pedal and/or EXP SW assigned to control various functions,
An assignment of this nature can make it appear that User parameters are not being stored in a patch.
To turn off the pre-assigned CTL and/or EXP SW functions, follow these steps:

1. Select the desired User patch.

2. Press the EDIT button.

3. Press PAGE left or right to select the MASTER tab, and then press ENTER.

4. Cursor left to "PEDAL/GK CTL," and then press ENTER.

5. Cursor down to "CTL FUNCTION," and then turn the dial counterclockwise to select "OFF."

6. Press PAGE right to select the EXP SW tab.

7. Cursor down to "EXP SW FUNCTION," and then turn the dial counterclockwise to select "OFF."

8. Save this new setting into the patch by pressing WRITE twice.

Note: Some patches may also contain assignments in the ASSIGN section that can effect custom stored parameters. If the above steps don't help with your patch, go to the ASSIGN menu, turn off each assignment in the patch, and then save the settings







==========

Also be sure to read the GR-55 Bug List Which details many problem patches and the lack of ability to assign Hold function to a MIDI CC#

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4723.0


Bill Ruppert wrote>

Re: GR-55 Bug List for submission to Roland Corp.

The non assignable HOLD function makes holding impossible while using the "Phrase Loop".
They both share the CTL pedal.

creart

Thanx Elantric !!
I was hoping I missed something and there was a way...
I'll have to use the midi assigns then on a per patch basis to make it respond to my FCB as I'd like...

Thanks again!
cheers
Hans

mbenigni

The only way I'm aware of is with SysEx.  If you have a pedal that can send SysEx, or some means of translating a MIDI event to SysEx (e.g. MIDI Solutions Event Processor), you can send this string to turn the CTL pedal on:

     0xf0 0x41 0x10 0x00 0x00 0x53 0x12 0x18 0x00 0x00 0x11 0x01 0x00 0xF7

and this one to turn it off again:

     0xf0 0x41 0x10 0x00 0x00 0x53 0x12 0x18 0x00 0x00 0x11 0x00 0x00 0xF7

I do this with TouchOSC and it allows me to turn the Hold pedal on and off when the CTL pedal is locked up by the GR55 looper - a workaround for one of several annoying design flaws.

My template indicates that this is the string for the Exp on/off, but coincidentally I tested it over the weekend and it wasn't working, so I've got to troubleshoot this one:

     0xf0 0x41 0x10 0x00 0x00 0x53 0x12 0x18 0x00 0x00 0x11 x(0..1) 0x00 0xF7

creart

Hey thanks, mbenigni

I doubt if the FCB is capable of sending midi sysex messages, but will definitely look into this..

For the sound challenge I had now, I have rearranged some stuff within the patch itself but it would have been cool to have one of the 'stomp' buttons of the FCB1010 switch the CTL and another to switch the EXP switch on/off
Would you happen to know sysex for that too? At least I can do stuff from LogicPro then...

I would have liked to control both my GR and PODXTLive from the FCB1010 when playing live, one volume pedal for the POD and the other pedal for the GR with the option of a stomp button to switch EXP on/off on that second pedal...
I guess that's out of reach though...

cheers
Hans

Elantric

If it were possible - this thread holds all the info
Complete Roland GR-55 MIDI Implementation
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4422.msg29947#msg29947

Be sure to read all of Gumtowns replies on the thread above.

creart

Cool Elantric!
I'll go through it.. !!!!!
sorry if I seem to have missed the obvious... sometimes you tend to search with too narrow descriptions to describe the question or problem.
And then English is not my native language, which can also account for some problems here and there  ;D

cheers
Hans

mbenigni

Regarding the Exp. on and off, it occurs to me that this probably is the correct implementation after all:

     ON:  0xf0 0x41 0x10 0x00 0x00 0x53 0x12 0x18 0x00 0x00 0x11 0x01 0x00 0xF7
     OFF:  0xf0 0x41 0x10 0x00 0x00 0x53 0x12 0x18 0x00 0x00 0x11 0x00 0x00 0xF7

I vaguely recall that the exp pedal light has a different setting, and that may be why my recent test was inconclusive.  I'll have to get back to you on that, but it's worth testing if you set something up that can send SysEx in the meantime.

tekrytor

A factory FCB-1010 cannot send sysex, but one with the UnO ROM can. There are some other ROM mods for the FCB that may also support sysex.
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

creart

????? I have the Uno Rom but I don't think it can send sysex???
With the FCB extension board it could but not with 'just' the Uno rom as far as I know???
No sysex per stomp button anyway?
Please put up  a link to documentation telling otherwise or give me more info..

cheers
Hans

tekrytor

#10
I have UnO v1.02F, but there is a newer v1.03, not sure of the diffs. But the manual for 1.02 states:
(from page 8 of the manual, you can download it and the Ripwerx editor, etc at http://www.voes.be/fcb1010/software.htm)

--------------------------
9. SYSEX manufacturer ID
As explained in the patch settings section below, this firmware version allows you to
send SYSEX commands instead of PC or CC commands. The value(s), sent within
these commands, are defineable per patch (see below). However the 3-byte
manufacturer ID, which is always part of the sysex command, can be set globally for all
commands.
* Remark : this ID is only used in the patch-related sysex commands mentioned below.
The FCB can also send a few general sysex messages, for version identification,
currently selected patch identification, or for dumping the memory content.These are
FCB-specific messages, which do not use the programmable manufacturer ID, but use
the fixed Behringer ID 0x00H-0x20H-0x32H
--------------

That description is about setting the global settings to identify the target device to send sysex to. You can then set the messages in the fields for the PC/CC commands. The number is a bit limited, so it may not do all you need. But if you already have an FCB, it may be worth looking into. It is a bit of a compromise, but it can be done if you need to send sysex messages.

I have some ROM files, but you should download them from Ossandust.de to be sure you get the latest. I would hate to be responsible for any eventual problems. Also, it could be that v1.03 removes send sysex for some reason. I do not see sending sysex in the current feature descriptions. I thought I was going nuts until I found the manual.

Keep us posted how it goes! Good luck!
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

glynndub

Quote from: mbenigni on June 10, 2013, 06:54:41 AM
The only way I'm aware of is with SysEx.  If you have a pedal that can send SysEx, or some means of translating a MIDI event to SysEx (e.g. MIDI Solutions Event Processor), you can send this string to turn the CTL pedal on:

     0xf0 0x41 0x10 0x00 0x00 0x53 0x12 0x18 0x00 0x00 0x11 0x01 0x00 0xF7

and this one to turn it off again:

     0xf0 0x41 0x10 0x00 0x00 0x53 0x12 0x18 0x00 0x00 0x11 0x00 0x00 0xF7
I just loaded this Sysex message into the MIDI Commander using a Toshiba Note Pad with Android and it works like a charm :)
So was wondering if you had and would post Sysex message for EXP switch on/off

If so I would be most grateful :)

gumtown

If you use the GR55FxFloorBoard editor, and in the Prdferences/midi usb menu, enable deBug Mode. The bottom statusbar will display sysx messages sent from the editor. You can toggle the EXP Sw setting to see the EXP on and off sysx data.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

glynndub

Quote from: gumtown on March 23, 2019, 10:28:58 PM
If you use the GR55FxFloorBoard editor, and in the Prdferences/midi usb menu, enable deBug Mode. The bottom statusbar will display sysx messages sent from the editor. You can toggle the EXP Sw setting to see the EXP on and off sysx data.
Thanks gumtown
using GR-55Floorbard, Pedal/GK, EXP Pedal SWITCH.
Indeed the messages shown (F04110000053121800004D011AF7) will turn the light on/off but will not activate selected function (example "Delay switch")

So I frigged I would also need a sysex to set function to delay, I'm now confused as regardless of the function I select Delay Sw, or any other function (Off, Tap Tempo, Mod Sw ect) the same Sysex message (F0411000005312180000DF7) is generated.

Same happen when I generate a function for EXP while switch is on. sysex (F0411000005312180000DF7) is generated.

I have noticed at bottom statusbar sysx display firstly flashes so am I right by assuming that multiple Sysex messages are being generated before settling on last message sent.

When all said and done all I wanted to achieve is a Sysex message to toggle between EXP switch On/Off as I have EXP off set to PCM's volume and in the act of pressing EXP down to activate function it sets MCP volume to max.

Hope that all make sense

sixeight

#14
I found these codes do work partly. If you set the assignment of CTR itself to AMP SW, the amp does switch on and off.

CTL ON: F0 41 10 00 00 53 12 18 00 00 11 01 56 F7

CTL OFF: F0 41 10 00 00 53 12 18 00 00 11 00 57 F7

EXP SW ON: F0 41 10 00 00 53 12 18 00 00 4D 01 1A F7

EXP SW OFF: F0 41 10 00 00 53 12 18 00 00 4D 00 1B F7

This will execute the assignment set under the switch itself, but any extra assignments set in the assign section are ignored by these commands.

glynndub


Chris71

Sorry guys,

Lurker here.

Not sure of the actual physical switch configuration in GR-55, but I'd assume the switches (at least on the CTRL) are mechanical momentary so a jack could be set in parallel, and be mimicked with a commercial MIDI control relay switcher over a MIDI CC (RJM/Axess etc).

Am I wrong in being suspicious that the other assigned functions "drop off" when a Sysex stream is assigned the control function, so that the unit definitely wants to see that contact closure?

Know have been slow with this, but want to rack mount my GR55 as part of a larger system. Some of the MIDI CC control omissions by Roland with this unit, are puzzling. Why shouldn't one be able to run an exp, looper and control pan - all on the front panel - via MIDI CC? Especially considering the RRP.

Chris.

Chris71

Thanks for the link.

If the opto-isolator is connected across the tactile switch, should then be able to use a relay contact to trigger it with no more fear?

The GR55 is a frustrating piece of ..........gear.

Chris.

whippinpost91850

#18
Just so you'll know, but with no recommendation or statement of possible issues.. I have been using hard-wired external switches for both of these functions ,live , for about 4 years..With no issues

The control is a Roland momentary switch and the Pedal switch is a slightly modified Roland EV-1 pedal'

whippinpost91850