GR-55 - Is it possible to set system tuner to A=432 Hz?

Started by dreamyreamy, September 24, 2012, 04:37:21 PM

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dreamyreamy

I'm working on producing some music at A=432 Hz and my gr-55 is the only piece of gear that is unable get there. The range is 435-445 Hz on the unit (system other: tuner: master tune) and the floorboard editor software, and i'm wondering if anybody can help me get around this. Thanks

Mrchevy

I'm not sure were that puts you as far as steps or half steps or what but you could try using the Exp pedal to PITCH BEND it to where you need it. Out of curiosity, why the odd tuning?
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sloopdawg

Quote from: Mrchevy on September 24, 2012, 05:34:56 PM
Out of curiosity, why the odd tuning?

I'm curious as well, why the odd tuning?
Would like to hear what you come up with when your finished.

tekrytor

Or perhaps the alternate tuning settings could help you tune accordingly in this case?
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

dreamyreamy

hmmm i don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon with gr-55, but i'll keep playing around with the settings and the pitch bend and maybe a computer or roland can help someday.

i'm just exploring and starting to produce music at A432. It's just a little flat, but not close to a half-step (i think Ab is around 415Hz). What I've noticed, once your ears adjust, is every key sounds fatter and warmer. We didn't internationally adopt A=440 until around WWII and there is an interesting history behind how it was changed. Plus the number is more harmonic with the ratios and numbers of the solar system, and that sounds cool. Here is some info on all that if you want to check it out.
http://humansarefree.com/2011/03/does-conspiracy-extend-to-musical-scale.html
http://humansarefree.com/2011/05/432-hz-vs-440-hz-documentary.html

Thanks guys and I'll let you know if I figure it out or when I get some stuff recorded!


gumtown

The Modeled guitars can have the pitch altered in 1 cent steps to +/- 50 cents (while having the guitar tuned at 440hz).
Failing that, an external tuner that can do 432hz will do.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

manicstarseed


Litesnsirens

Quote from: dreamyreamy on September 25, 2012, 02:59:44 PM
hmmm i don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon with gr-55, but i'll keep playing around with the settings and the pitch bend and maybe a computer or roland can help someday.

i'm just exploring and starting to produce music at A432. It's just a little flat, but not close to a half-step (i think Ab is around 415Hz). What I've noticed, once your ears adjust, is every key sounds fatter and warmer. We didn't internationally adopt A=440 until around WWII and there is an interesting history behind how it was changed. Plus the number is more harmonic with the ratios and numbers of the solar system, and that sounds cool. Here is some info on all that if you want to check it out.
http://humansarefree.com/2011/03/does-conspiracy-extend-to-musical-scale.html
http://humansarefree.com/2011/05/432-hz-vs-440-hz-documentary.html

Thanks guys and I'll let you know if I figure it out or when I get some stuff recorded!

This must be why all the good bands break up....


Mrchevy

Quote from: Mrchevy on September 24, 2012, 05:34:56 PMOut of curiosity, why the odd tuning?
Well........allrighty then  ::)   Sorry, but just a little deep for me.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

aliensporebomb

I remember reading that a couple of years ago.  It would be interesting to play with for sure.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

sloopdawg

Quote from: aliensporebomb on September 26, 2012, 09:13:45 AM
It would be interesting to play with for sure.

It would be intresting to play with for sure (if for no other reason, it's something different) Its got me thinking, is it more harmonic? would the bpms be more in time/sync, maybe I'm just thinking too much.

Rorster

It's alright, It's alright IT'S ALL RIGHT ... She moves in Mysterious ways... Come on baby. Let it go for god sake. Hendrix, Zappa, Jeff Beck, Zepplin, John McLaughlin, The Beatles etc. for gods sake. Not to mention all the great music minds that grew up on this forum ?? A few Hz difference in frequency? Please!  The simple crossover in tone, frequency, attack on string creating subtle changes in pitch... Give me a break.  I just watched Perlman on PBS play a violin SOLO on a tiny little piece of wood as hard as Jimi Hendrix played on a guitar (And Hendrix rules I doubt anyone could top his "Wind Cries Mary..."). By the way I dug the Bob Marley link. So all you lovers of the GR, thanks for all your dynamite and ... signin off here.
                Rorster

Litesnsirens

Hey, to each his own.  I'm not saying that any of this would cause me to change my tuning by those few hz.  And I'm not a conspiracy theorist, in fact I'm quite the opposite, but I do enjoy food for thought and let's face it if you want your music to make cool designs in the sand you're gonna have to change your tuning.  If there is some science claiming there is something to changing the standard tuning and making things sound more harmonious, I say let those with the will and desire go ahead and experiment.  And let's remember all those artists that you are naming were tuning their guitars before the invention of digital tuners, you'd have to go back and check it out somehow but who's to say that when Jimi was tuning his guitar by ear he wasn't off a few hz from the 440 to something that sounded more natural to him.  Not saying it happened but for sure a lot of those older rock bands are just in the ball park as far as tuning goes. They sure weren't plugging into Roland Tuners and getting it bang on.  You listened to a tuning fork or a piano key (which was tuned by a pro using a tuning fork) and you tuned to that to get your A string and tuned the rest of the guitar to itself or to other keys on the piano.

Mrchevy

You know what Litesnsirens, your right. I do not buy into the conspiracy thing on just about anything, things are what they are I think.  I have made other posts on the forum encouraging creative thought and expression and I believe that my previous post with the little guy rolling his eyes was actually a rude gesture to a new forum member and in hindsight was not necessary. I would like to offer an apology to DREAMYREAMY for that. I don't buy the conspiracy thing and truthfully don't care but thinking about the science behind it does lend itself to another avenue of creativity and who am I or anyone else to be judgmental of that. I offer a sincere SHAME ON ME  :-[ 
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

sloopdawg

Quote from: Mrchevy on September 29, 2012, 05:20:01 PM
who am I or anyone else to be judgmental of that.

I agree, hope I didn't come across as condesinding because I actually thought it was kinda' cool. Made me think (and I'm all for that). Had never heard of this before so it was pretty tasty food for thought.

tekrytor

I finally watched the videos and it is certainly interesting to visualize how these various materials react to various audio frequencies. In the seventies, I just assumed that guitarists detuned for one of two reasons:
1. So those of us trying to learn the riffs and chords would have a hard time and eventually pay for the sheet music.

2. To get lighter action on their guitars.

HOWEVER...now "knowing" that Robert Johnson sold his soul to the devil to learn how to play guitar :), and that so many of us ARE conspiracy theorists (myself included), and how the detune craze took off around the late sixties when occult was "IN"......this is really cool. That's all I got to say about that --- Forest Gump. Except of course that I AM gonna try it ASAP. Besides, this constant 440 thing is getting a bit "monotonous". While we're on frequency/matter/biology, the patterns in the second video made me think that perhaps  naturally occurring audio frequencies might have influenced mutations in DNA of simple organism, restructuring them into mutations that would become dominant, superior, better in some cases, or not, but in some cases lead to viable alternatives to the status quo. "Begin with the possible. 'Move' toward the (previously) impossible."
Someone early in this interesting thread asked why. " Don't ask why!" --- Brian Eno
Anyone know where to buy  432 Hz tuning fork?
BTW, to possibly help with the original inquiry; for  recording tracks, you could always record the other parts at 432 Hz, pitch shift them to 440, record the GR and any other tracks that are 432 difficult at 440, then shift all or parts back, re sync/mix, etc. Another quick and dirty method would be to just use an external pitch shifter inline at the output of the GR.
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

Litesnsirens

But as was suggested earlier, and something that came to mind for me, couldn't he just detune using the fine pitch?  Maybe that's on the guitar only?  OR perhaps would it be that there wouldn't be a direct translation between cents and hz that could land him on 432?  I don't have my GR-55 in front of me at the moment so I can't dig into the edit pages on the PCMs and I don't recall off the top of my head if they have a fine pitch as well but I seem to remember detuning a piano on PCM 1 from a piano on PCM 2 to get a bit of chorus effect. 

shawnb

The first thing I would try would be to tune the actual guitar to 432 (not using the gr55s tuner) and just play, ensuring the tones had chromatic off.    The gr55 will match the performed notes - whatever the tuning of the guitar - with a combo of notes & pitch wheel events.   

The tuner won't work, though.....   And the MIDI output would be meaningless for notation usage.   But I bet the GR-55's sounds would be perfect! 
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

aliensporebomb

I found an interesting article at an Apple website where someone was trying to tune the Apple Garageband softsynths to A=432 and someone had suggested they just tune everything to be tuned -31 cents so I made a copy of one of my patches on the VG-99, changed all the pitches to -31 cents and put it into a looper and this is what it sounded like:



What do you think?


My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Litesnsirens

Interesting ASB, what are the chances you could do the same thing at 440 for a comparison.  The minus 31 got me to thinking about an experiment. Just to check the correlation between -31 cents and 432hz.   I use Studio One as my DAW, the included tuner can be calibrated to anything, they even have some presets for the tuner such as Baroque 415, classic 430, Romantic 438 and modern orchestra 443 along with the standard ISO 440.  I never really checked out the tuner in that kind of depth before today, so this is really opening my eyes regarding the standard and how it's changed over time and for different genres.

I set up a midi note to play over and over again and put the tuner on the send, I tuned the instrument down -31 cents but the tuner also shows a difference value of how far you are out of tune and it wasn't matching up exactly, I set the virtual instrument to -31 but it was showing a difference of -27 (in and around of course, there was variance based on attack etc. perhaps I wouldn't have this issue with a simple sine wave from a synth).  Anyway I played with it until I was seeing an average difference of -31 cents on the tuner itself.  Sure enough as I dialled the calibration knob down to 432hz the note showed right in tune.  So I think this is the proper correlation, you may have to check the accuracy of the PCM tones in the GR-55 to see if they are accurate in their detuning, the scarbee precision bass guitar sound I was using from Native Instruments Komplete 8 wasn't.  But I think if you test a few PCM tones and of course the COSM guitar tones out using a tuner in DAW or otherwise to check the accuracy of the internal de-pitching you could probably either decide you can rely on it or at least find the number that works in the GR-55. 

As far as tuning the actual guitar to 432.  Since the included tuner doesn't do it, that might be prohibitive if you want to keep working live and otherwise and need to tune quickly and easily.  I play in a few bands and I tune my guitar to standard tuning even though one of my bands everyone tunes a half step down, so in that band all my presets are set at -1 on the pitch.  At gig or rehearsal volume you'd never know I'm tuned differently.

Mrchevy

   I think as a recording on it's own, it sounds normal to me. If it were done in A 440 and A/B'd next to each other, what would be the results. Would one actually sound more harmonious than the other. Would one have a more un-nerving effect than the other. If so, this might be an interesting perspective similar to subliminal messaging. Obviously, a more harmonious pitch would be beneficial to ambient soundscape type stuff as the general idea of that genre would be for calm and relaxing inspiration, whereas a pitch that is a little un-nerving would lend itself well to rebellious hard rock or metal. If this is the case, then I still would not buy into a conspiracy thing but think of pitch tuning as just another tool to get the most out of the music you are creating much as you would add an effect.
   This sounds reasonable to me. Using pitch on the other hand to control and rule the world, well, I'm sure it's been studied in the dark catacombs of many governments but for music, more likely a side street that some musicians have ventured down just for the sake of trying to find something new or unique to add to their music. I personally will probably not go down that side street for fear of being taken by guys in black suits and sun glasses and being forced to do scientific studies that could be dangerous in the wrong hands ;) ;D
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

aliensporebomb

#22
Sure I can do one at 440.  Stay tuned.

Update: here's one at 440, about the same length in the same key:
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Mrchevy

Interesting, I can't say I would notice a difference if I played one then wait maybe 15 minutes, then play the other. What is interesting is to open both audio examples in 2 separate windows and play them together. There is a subtle detuning effect going on but is not so extreme that they don't sound right, just different. Although, when I look at things to the left, they seem to be moving at a different speed then the things on my right. ;D
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

tekrytor

Quote from: aliensporebomb on September 30, 2012, 09:56:27 AM
and this is what it sounded like:



What do you think?

VERY Spooky...I like it! Shades of "From The End Of Time".
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices