Author Topic: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.  (Read 3047 times)

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Offline imdurc

GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« on: June 09, 2012, 10:00:40 AM »
The Roland GK pickups that have come and gone in recent years (GK2, 2A, etc.) have all given some nice functionality; through the knob to control volume, buttons to control patch changes or even guitar pickup changes, etc. Even a handy switch to have your real guitar, the synth selection or a combination of both. However, personally, I've seen a real issue lately.

I was playing a VG sound and realised that, when it came to a quiet part in the song, I wanted to roll back the volume and tone pot for a smoother sound. ...there's no way to do that with my GK3 :(


I'm sure you can assign the GK knob to act as a tone pot, but then, that means you either lose the volume control or assign that to a pedal. It just seems a little messy. Anyone else feel the same way? The latter idea is a decent solution, but does mean that if you want to kill volume, you'd better be near your pedal board. The last time I was playing my VG-99 live was, on a theatre stage, no pedals, just my guitar and GK3.

If someone has a solution that gives you a second knob control on your guitar, I'm all ears :P Still, it does feel strange that Roland designed the GK pickup to be used with VG units, but without all the familiar controls you'd find on a real guitar. Or am I missing something here? Like, maybe the 13-pin connector hasn't any wiring left to get any more controls on there!?

Adam.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 03:03:37 PM by Elantric »

Offline Elantric

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2012, 10:19:23 AM »
Quote
If someone has a solution that gives you a second knob control on your guitar, I'm all ears


Im with you

My 1986 Roland GK1 has 4 knobs and i use them all with the GM-70
http://m.matrixsynth.com/2008/11/roland-gk-1-synthesizer-driver.html


A few other VG-99 owners came up with a solution to mount a 2nd control pot on the guitar,and feed the pot's wiper signal down the "spare pin #9 (pre GK-3 pickups)

This feeds the VG-99 External Expression pedal input, and you then map that to control your COSM PU Tone.
 


Offline imdurc

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2012, 11:09:18 AM »
Ahhh....so something changed with the GK3 to lose pin 9? Oh... Are there any diagrams of the GK3 pin usage in comparison to the GK2A? I'm very curious about all this now! It's also really interesting to see the ol' GK-1.  ;)

Offline Elantric

« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 11:21:48 AM by Elantric »

Offline aliensporebomb

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2012, 11:40:12 AM »
I use a slightly different method.

Or rather two: two versions of the same patch directly adjacent to each other in the user patches one with the neck virtual pickup activated, one bridge.

I also found that depending on where and how you pick it can vastly alter tone and I simply use the GK pickup knob to control volume level.

"this is aliensporebomb" - my instrumental debut with the vg99 now on itunes: http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/this-is-aliensporebomb/id391880218
More online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

My VG-99 based music projects:
http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

Offline cynegetic

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2012, 03:27:33 PM »
Assigns?

Offline imdurc

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2012, 06:05:45 PM »
Knowing that the GK3 started using pin-9, is kinda disappointing. Did they really have to use that last pin for the dropping the VG volume when switching? Mind you, I suppose if it was DIY'd in, you'd need to find a way of getting the right assignment set up. God only knows how. Unless there's a section in the manual that catalogues the assignments. I seem to remember the ol' VG-8EX manual did have this section.

Offline Gaustu

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2014, 07:04:41 PM »
For a case I'll want to have an additional knob controller under my hand on guitar, I made it.
There are so numerous possibilities described in the forum about controllers, something we are waiting for to be as universal as super comfortable. But in spite of this I think this will be as simple as useful.

I decided to use stacked knobs for MIDI only.
The bottom one is programmed usually as a volume #7 cc.
The upper knob can be programmed inside software Audio/MIDI host only if it goes as Expression pedal control.

The pot of this knob is connected between ground and +7 from 13pin cable. The middle contact of this pot is connected to pin #9 not being used in my setup.
The primitive idea is to direct it to the input of my GR-30 or other gear that has Expr pedal input.
I installed one more stereo output jack on the GR-55. Like this is "Expression Pedal out" lol.
What the input for Expr Pedal needs? It needs DC voltage changed from 0 to 5v coming on Tip of jack. So I gave it (through 3kOms resistor) to him. In this case ring is not used on this output. only tip and ground.
Now I connect my new "expression pedal out" to "expression pedal" of GR-30 (or Ensoniq TS-10 !) and all starts to work immediately.
For instance, you may use Guirar Rig now and assign this little guitar knob for any controller in Guitar Rig.
Schematics are so blunt, there not at all. This is just an active pot.


« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 01:18:23 PM by admsustainiac »
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Offline Dewittian

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2014, 11:57:22 AM »
Love the idea.  I have a GR20 that has sounds I wan tot use.  I have the roladn A-B switch to go between units but I can think of all kinds of things I'd use more switches and volume pots on the guitar.

I was wondering if anybody has made a remote control for any type of live effects processors? 
Gear:
Sonar X3, Kontakt sampler, NI guitar Rig, Finale'
Laptop windows 7
GR20
GR55
Tascam US1800
Jackson with GK3 pickup and M-Audio Keystation

Offline Elantric

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2014, 11:59:35 AM »
Sure  - i  have made several.

Another trick for VG-99 users  - how to implement a Strat 5 way PU change switch for COSM Guitar models 
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=45.0

Offline Gaustu

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2014, 03:00:21 PM »
Interesting
I do not see there any schematics how to make it with 5 way switch.
And is this not possible with GR-55?
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Offline Elantric

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2014, 03:09:03 PM »
Quote
I do not see there any schematics how to make it with 5 way switch.


None exist - English description is all you need.
Quote
<Ed Manning wrote>
In an earlier post I outlined how I intend to fit a new 5-way switch
to my piezo and GK3 equipped guitars. This is for both an improved
range of ordinary pickup sounds and (mainly) to be able to use the 5-
way to switch between VG pickup positions like a normal guitar.

I'm fitting a 4-pole 5-way switch. One of the poles will be switching
a small bank of 2K2 ohm resistors. The sum resistance (relative to
ground) will go to the rear/external controller input of the VG-99
(or earlier) via the unused pin/wire in the GK cable.(Pin #9)

Each switch position corresponds to an EV7 pedal position and so is
easily assigned to the pickup switch position parameter in the VG.
Of course it could be assigned to any VG parameter.

The above involves minimal wiring within any VG unit, just one wire (Spare pin #9)
from the GK input socket to the external controller jack.

Source for 4-pole 5way Switch

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Components:_Switches_and_knobs/Super_Switch.html

And check Dr Wayne Joness's site links provided
http://www.joness.com/gr300/vwham.htm

http://www.joness.com/gr300/pdf/S1_S2_VG-99.pdf
http://www.joness.com/gr300/pdf/S1_S2_VG-99.pdf
Quote
And is this not possible with GR-55?

Not that I'm aware of - since Roland did not include an External Expression pedal input jack.

Offline Gaustu

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2014, 03:43:27 PM »
Ah! Thanks, now I see, clear.
Again, with the help of expr pedal input existing in VG-99
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Offline datsunrobbie

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2014, 04:26:26 PM »
I may be disproving the thought that "there are no stupid questions", but I still don't understand the wiring for the switch. I'm preparing to install another GK internal kit and would love to incorporate this mod into the installation - I've posted inquiries before about making a 5-way switch work to switch COSM pickups, and this sounds like just what I've been wishing for. I looked at a couple dozen "super-switch" wiring diagrams last night, and just ended up more confused. I finally found a diagram with the superswitch that I could follow here: http://www.guitar-mod.com/wiring/lonestar_strat.gif. Since I'll be using three single coils I won't be using the coil tap in the diagram - I'm guessing that's where the bank of 2k2 ohm resistors would get wired in. If somebody could provide a similar diagram I'd really appreciate it, and promise I'll provide photos when I get it wired up. It will be going in a 2005 Fender Aerodyne strat.

Offline Elantric

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2014, 06:55:09 PM »
As expressed before, since the GR55 lacks an external Expression pedal jack input, forget trying to implement the custom 5way PU switch for COSM Pickups.

Offline mbenigni

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2014, 08:54:20 AM »
As expressed before, since the GR55 lacks an external Expression pedal jack input, forget trying to implement the custom 5way PU switch for COSM Pickups.

...unless you're willing to spend another $120 on a MIDI Solutions Pedal Controller (or DIY equivalent) and bolt that on somewhere between your switch and the MIDI In.

Offline datsunrobbie

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2014, 10:17:48 AM »
Actually hoping to use it with my VG-99 (just realized this is under the GR-55 Discussions). Mentioning the MIDI Solutions controller makes me wonder if there would be a way to mod my FC-300 to pick up the signal and route it through one of the external controller jacks.

Offline Elantric

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2014, 10:53:26 AM »
Its all spelled out in Ed Mannings quote.
Quote
Quote
<Ed Manning wrote>
In an earlier post I outlined how I intend to fit a new 5-way switch
to my piezo and GK3 equipped guitars. This is for both an improved
range of ordinary pickup sounds and (mainly) to be able to use the 5-
way to switch between VG COSM Modeled pickup positions like a normal guitar.

I'm fitting a 4-pole 5-way switch. One of the poles will be switching
a small bank of 2K2 ohm resistors. The sum resistance (relative to
ground) will go to the rear/external controller input of the VG-99
(or earlier) via the unused pin/wire in the GK cable.(Pin #9)

Each switch position corresponds to an EV7 pedal position and so is
easily assigned to the pickup switch position parameter in the VG.
Of course it could be assigned to any VG parameter.

The above involves minimal wiring within any VG unit, just one wire (Spare pin #9)
from the GK input socket to the external controller jack.

Source for 4-pole 5way Switch

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Components:_Switches_and_knobs/Super_Switch.html

He is using a switched resister ladder network on one pole of a 4 pole Strat 5way switch to replicate an EV5/EV7  expression pedal
You must isolate and disconnect pin9 on the 13pin Din Connector on both GK-3 and VG99. Then the output lead from 5way switch network gets fed down pin9 where it emerges at the VG99's 13 pin input. Then build a short cable from VG-99 internal GK13 input pc board to the rear VG-99 1/4" TRS Expression pedal jack, then use a VG99 Control Assignment to map the Expression pedal to control COSM PU Selection.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 12:01:25 PM by Elantric »

Offline Toby Krebs

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2014, 09:30:59 AM »
As expressed before, since the GR55 lacks an external Expression pedal jack input, forget trying to implement the custom 5way PU switch for COSM Pickups.

That is why I use the mag pickups on all my GK equipped guitars when using my GR55. I do blend the COSM pickups with the mags for some patches but I have to have pickup switching options available at all times to do what I do live. This is a cool mod though for VG99 players!

Offline Gaustu

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2014, 04:29:19 PM »
As expressed before, since the GR55 lacks an external Expression pedal jack input, forget trying to implement the custom 5way PU switch for COSM Pickups.

Well, but for those who want it so bad, there is real possibility anyway to make it working for GR-55.

Install 3-way toggle switch in back panel of GR-55
Unsolder wires of pot of expr pedal inside GR-55 exept of groung wire. Send them to center contacts of your 3way switch.
Connect two contacts of pot with other two contacts of 3way switch.
Connect your moded output #9 wire and +V to other pair of 3way switch

Now your 3way switch is switching between normal expr pedal function and guitar selector moded function
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Online gumtown

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2014, 06:27:41 PM »
Well, but for those who want it so bad, there is real possibility anyway to make it working for GR-55.

Install 3-way toggle switch in back panel of GR-55
Unsolder wires of pot of expr pedal inside GR-55 exept of groung wire. Send them to center contacts of your 3way switch.
Connect two contacts of pot with other two contacts of 3way switch.
Connect your moded output #9 wire and +V to other pair of 3way switch

Now your 3way switch is switching between normal expr pedal function and guitar selector moded function

Have you tried this ?? I thought the GR-55 EXP pedal pot was a digital rotary encoder.

Why not use midi, save having to make hardware mods. 3 footswitch buttons on a midi controller to set the 3 position modeled P.U. toggle.

I have a project currently in limbo, but will pick it up again very soon,
with a midi wireless guitar controller and foot controller, all programmable via midi editing software.
It has provision for direct use of a 3 or 5 way pickup switch, and requires no GR mods, only fitting the controls into a guitar pickguard, or using existing guitar switches and knobs.

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7984.0

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from http://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Offline Gaustu

Re: GK- guitar Add another on board rotary User Control.
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2014, 06:44:21 PM »
This is fantastish!!!

Quote
Have you tried this ?? I thought the GR-55 EXP pedal pot was a digital rotary encoder.

No, I did not tried what I described LOL, but looking at the schematics of GR-30 how the jack of expr pedal is connected to the chip, I think there is the same way in GR-55 but w/o a jack? there is +5v out and in from the chip. of course I may be mistaken.
But even if I am mistaken it is obviously possibly. Because we just replace one variable resistor (pot inside the device) with another (bank of resistors inside guitar)!

From the other side all this really seem so outmoded when we will have such a MIDI wireless controller.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 06:39:02 AM by Gaustu »
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

 

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