Stereo pedal questions

Started by Pat the Brat, February 06, 2024, 06:53:01 AM

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Pat the Brat

Hi community!

hope i am at the right place for this post.

I actually have a Katana-100 (MKI) and Strymon stereo delay and reverb pedals.
So far, i connect my guitar into the amp, from the REC OUT/HEADPHONES out i go into the delay pedal (it is mentioned it can support line level at input), then into the reverb and into a Digiflex stereo D.I to end up in my Appolo Twin in the Mic in's (linked for stereo)

I assume i remain stereo (or dual mono) all way inlcuding the stereo FX from the Katana that seem to spread out good as well.
Does anything seem "dumb" here so far?

If i would like to add a stereo modulation pedal in the chain, i assume i should add it before the delay but i know modulation is generally right from the guitar at the input to keep things as less muddy as possible and if i put it at input i then loose the stereo effect of the modulation pedal.

There is this information in the manual (see image attached) but it seem to end up mono from my understanding.


I would like to have your feedback on this setup, any advise and help will be welcome.

Thank you in advance,
Pat

Elantric

#1
You need two Amplifiers to achieve Stereo sound from Stereo FX

Else

Using one amplifier for Stereo FX typically results in phase cancelation with resulting weak midrange frequency  response , right where your guitar tones live.

Pat the Brat

Thank you for your quick reply Elantric.
But in my actual setup, going from REC OUT to the stereo input (with a TRS to 2 x TS cable)and so on, i thought i was stereo up to my soundcard, am i right?

i forgot to mention, nothing is going out of the Katana speaker, only via the REC OUT/HEADPHONES.
Therefore i have use the amp channels (clean, distorted, modulation, Wah, EQ and so on) but with the stereo pedals.
So without the addition of the modulation pedal, i should remain real stereo from my understanding.

Again, sorry if this is obvious and thank you to help me.

IMH1234

Not sure I fully understand your setup so apologies if I don't get this quite right - it sounds like you are running balanced  Mono signal from the rec out, then splitting it into the individual left and right inputs of the delay and the sending the separate Left/right outputs to the DI.

If so, this is definitely not the optimum setup. Strymon pedals only have unbalanced inputs (I think all accept line level) and splitting via an insert cable in this way is really not the best way to approach this. Better would be to go from the amps line out into the Left in of the delay with a single TS or TRS cable (as the pedal does not 'see' balanced inputs TRS is not needed). Let the pedal handle the stereo splitting and then send the two signals into your DI channels.

If you want to add modulation then there are a number of points in the signal chain you can do this. You need to try them all and decide which works best. In the setup you describe either before or after the delay would work but each will sound different. If before then let the modulation do the stereo split as described above and send separate left and right inputs into the delay, if after then go into the Left and right of the modulation after the delay. Key thing is to use the pedals which are designed to do the stereo splitting and are hopefully properly buffered for that purpose and not a cable designed for a different purpose.

Another option which is worth trying is to set up modulation in mono before the amp - I know not everyone agrees with me on this but the modern trend of stereo everything does not always equate to better sound - especially in a mix. Remember that a huge proportion of classic chorused and modulated tones were recorded ion mono as stereo pedals were not available or were a real pain to deal with in practice. Often a stereo delay or reverb adds all the spacial information needed and there can be more clarity from keeping everything else mono. The thing is to try out all the options and let your ears tell you which works best.


IMH1234

Just reread the OP - if it is a genuine stereo out the insert cable may be OK but I would still use the line out as I describe for a cleaner setup

Elantric

#5
QuoteNot sure I fully understand your setup so apologies if I don't get this quite right - it sounds like you are running balanced  Mono signal from the rec out

The Katana Rec/Phones Output is a MONO UNBALANCED OUTPUT - if a TRS type headphone plug is inserted. You hear  mono sound on both Left and Right on Stereo Headphones - its due to the unique Katana Rec/Phones Output circuit design with resistors feeding both Tip and Ring from a common mono DAC Output

IMH1234

Quote from: Elantric on February 06, 2024, 10:01:48 AMThe Katana Rec/Phones Output is a MONO UNBALANCED OUTPUT - if a TRS type headphone plug is inserted. You hear  mono sound on both Left and Right - its due to the unique Katana Rec/Phones Output circuit design with resistors feeding both Tip and Ring from a common mono DAC Output

Thanks - OK then the setup I suggested works from this output using a TS to TS lead into the Left in on the Strymon

gumtown

Everything about the Mk1 Katana guitar amp is mono.

It is the Mk2 model Katana which still has mono headphones out, but has a "stereo Expand" mode line output to a second Katana.
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Pat the Brat

Thank to the 3 of you for your quick reply.

IMH1234, i appreciate the extensive anwser.
I will definitely test all config and you just remind me that modulation pedals have been for a very long time mono and had worked just fine.
i have been mislead by the Katana manual page 11 stating that the "REC OUT/PHONES jack: Stereo 1/4-inch phone type"

Again, all this help is very much appreciated.

Elantric

#9
Quote from: Pat the Brat on February 06, 2024, 06:59:29 PMi have been mislead by the Katana manual page 11 stating that the "REC OUT/PHONES jack: Stereo 1/4-inch phone type"


They really should change that to "Accomodates Stereo Headphones", as in fact its a "Dual MONO Signal" and not Stereo 

Which is a shame

The Katana AIR and Katana AIR EX do provide Stereo FX on their Headphone Outputs , but none of the others do.  Including Katana  Artist MKII.

Pat the Brat

i agree that real stereo would have been nice to have but i have no real interest in replacing my amp for now. I will run mono all the way from the guitar to the input of the delay (through the amp Line out) and let the pedal handle the splitting to reach stereo in the delay & reverb as proposed by IMH1234, even more so that i decided to save the money and remain with the FX of the Katana instead of going for external modulation pedal.

i have more than tools that i need to express my creativity.  :)

SY.Borg.300

Stereo through stereo through stereo ect is a sonic mess. If you want that get an high quality multieffect like an H90. Other wise one stereo effect like a chorus at the very end then split to 2 amps is the most usable and practical.