SY-1000 and nylons

Started by Viabcroce, December 23, 2023, 07:52:31 AM

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Viabcroce

I am considering purchasing a Godin Nylon SA and - most probably ATM - an SY-1000.
I've been reading a lot and watching videos, but although I've found some clips on YT I can't say I've got much information about my intended use... which I realize is somehow a niche of a niche.

Can fellow forumites link some video (or even discussion) where the interaction of the SY with nylon strings is delved into? Things that would be precious would be for example

  • does nylon intrinsic mechanical latency affect the SY's response/latency?
  • do any of the simulated guitars make any sense with a nylon source?
  • is there any specific issue one should be aware of?

Of course, any personal insight and experience would be welcome.

Thanks everyone, and merry Christmas :)
Ignoranti quem portum petat nullus suus ventus est

Brent Flash

General consensus is nylon and piezo are not the ideal way to simulate guitar with the Roland products.I am sure you will get more opinions in a little while.


stub

I'm not speaking from my own experience, as I've never owned a nylon GK Godin.

As for "mechanical latency", that probably won't be an issue for the modeled sounds, but would likely make some of the synth tracking more problematic.

My Godin electric guitar into the SY-1000 modeling a nylon string guitar, it does sound like an acoustic guitar, and has a general "vibe" of a nylon. How do I put this? It has realism in a sense, but isn't an accurate emulation.

If you NEED to have a nylon string guitar, I suppose you'll have to decide if the sacrifices in tracking & sound quality are worth it. If you don't mind playing an electric guitar, the Godin xtSA is pretty hard to beat. Maybe you can find a deal on a used one.

Viabcroce

#4
Quote from: Brent Flash on December 23, 2023, 09:53:21 AMGeneral consensus is nylon and piezo are not the ideal way to simulate guitar with the Roland products.I am sure you will get more opinions in a little while.

Thanks Brent, well I'd not expect to emulate a Strato with a nylon guitar. It's not even my primary goal.
I'd find much more interesting that the nylon tracked well and produced interesting tones, although not sounding like a strato.
Hope this makes sense :)


Quote from: stub on December 23, 2023, 12:20:10 PMMy Godin electric guitar into the SY-1000 modeling a nylon string guitar, it does sound like an acoustic guitar, and has a general "vibe" of a nylon. How do I put this? It has realism in a sense, but isn't an accurate emulation.

No, I'd be ok with that. I've heard clips of folk/electric guitar emulating a nylon, and I find the result musically interesting. I'd hope to get likewise interesting results at inverted parts :)

Quote from: stub on December 23, 2023, 12:20:10 PMIf you NEED to have a nylon string guitar, I suppose you'll have to decide if the sacrifices in tracking & sound quality are worth it. If you don't mind playing an electric guitar, the Godin xtSA is pretty hard to beat.

The idea of the nylon comes from a tactile need :) I already own solid bodies and folk guitars, but find myself much at ease with a 48 mm nylon such as a Godin; I'd love to perform in the style of Fausto Mesolella, but with a richer colour palette.

TBH guitars emulations would not be my primary goal. Synth tracking is definitely a priority tho.
OTOH, I've heard demos of the SY played with a nylon; those were just songs tho, not tests, there was no explanations etc, so I found them nice but basically useless for a global evaluation.

What I'd need to know is whether nylon+SY makes for a solid performing and consistent tool, or the coupling is destined to fail (apart from being able to produce a few songs that work). I an more for interesting sounds than realistic ones, if that makes sense :)

IOW, I have no idea about "the sacrifices in tracking & sound quality", and that's why I started this thread.
Ignoranti quem portum petat nullus suus ventus est

IMH1234

Quote from: Viabcroce on December 23, 2023, 04:26:09 PMThanks Brent, well I'd not expect to emulate a Strato with a nylon guitar. It's not even my primary goal.
I'd find much more interesting that the nylon tracked well and produced interesting tones, although not sounding like a strato.
Hope this makes sense :)


No, I'd be ok with that. I've heard clips of folk/electric guitar emulating a nylon, and I find the result musically interesting. I'd hope to get likewise interesting results at inverted parts :)

The idea of the nylon comes from a tactile need :) I already own solid bodies and folk guitars, but find myself much at ease with a 48 mm nylon such as a Godin; I'd love to perform in the style of Fausto Mesolella, but with a richer colour palette.

TBH guitars emulations would not be my primary goal. Synth tracking is definitely a priority tho.
OTOH, I've heard demos of the SY played with a nylon; those were just songs tho, not tests, there was no explanations etc, so I found them nice but basically useless for a global evaluation.

What I'd need to know is whether nylon+SY makes for a solid performing and consistent tool, or the coupling is destined to fail (apart from being able to produce a few songs that work). I an more for interesting sounds than realistic ones, if that makes sense :)

IOW, I have no idea about "the sacrifices in tracking & sound quality", and that's why I started this thread.

You might want to check out how Al Di Meola is using this technology with his nylon string - he uses is sparingly to add different textures behind and alternate lead voicing in is solo and acoustic small band sets. Not sure exactly which device he uses - possibly VG88 but it is quite effective and whilst not an objective test it seems to track even his faster picking very well. Sorry I don't have a video link right now but if you can find some examples it might give you a feel for how this could work.

Brak(E)man

I use a Godin Multiac nylon with GP-10
and I've used it at times with SY as well.
As far as "tracking" it works great.
I use it mainly for real nylon sound with synths layered.
(You can hear the nylon + GP here.)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=28759.msg209296#msg209296

The modeling works although the sound is a bit different
(but that's the case between different GK guitars as well to a lesser degree)
From your description of what you want to do, it should work fine.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

jongrant

I use several different gk guitars, including a godin nylon (I have 2 different models), and I love the difference in attack, sustain, and general tone the nylon lends.

As long as you don't take the names of the SY models too seriously, and just use your ears and imagination, you'll have great fun and will come up many great sounds, both usable and unique.

I will warn you, though: you'll likely be adding a gk pickup to a steel-string electric soon, for the additional sustain and more traditional tonal options. This is a slippery (and expensive) slope.

I'm away from home for a couple of weeks, but if you want some specific sound samples, I could do that when I'm back.

Viabcroce

I've come across a guy who shows the unit through a Godin nylon. Unfortunately he doesn't seem proficient nor - despite his claim that he owns and uses other 13-pin Boss/Roland Devices - expert... had I to take a decision based on his clip, it would definitely be a... meh LOL



Quote from: IMH1234 on December 23, 2023, 05:09:55 PMYou might want to check out how Al Di Meola is using this technology with his nylon string - he uses is sparingly to add different textures behind and alternate lead voicing in is solo and acoustic small band sets. Not sure exactly which device he uses - possibly VG88 but it is quite effective and whilst not an objective test it seems to track even his faster picking very well. Sorry I don't have a video link right now but if you can find some examples it might give you a feel for how this could work.

Thanks IMH, don't fret, I believe I've seen the video you're mentioning. I liked it, although I guess his technique can make the git+dev combination sound at its best and basically better than I would/could...
:)


Quote from: jongrant on December 24, 2023, 05:40:43 AMAs long as you don't take the names of the SY models too seriously, and just use your ears and imagination, you'll have great fun and will come up many great sounds, both usable and unique.

Well, that's the sort of validation I was hoping for :)
I am not interested at all in imitating an LP with a Godin; much more interesting for me would be to be able to create interesting - and as you put it unique - tones :)

Quote from: jongrant on December 24, 2023, 05:40:43 AMI will warn you, though: you'll likely be adding a gk pickup to a steel-string electric soon, for the additional sustain and more traditional tonal options. This is a slippery (and expensive) slope.

8)


Quote from: jongrant on December 24, 2023, 05:40:43 AMI'm away from home for a couple of weeks, but if you want some specific sound samples, I could do that when I'm back.

Thanks mate, that would be appreciated :)
What I would be most interested in would be settings/patches that enrich the nylon acoustic natural tone and feel and make it interesting (although different) w\o artefacts: as for the synth part, I am already sure a lot can be done :)
Ignoranti quem portum petat nullus suus ventus est