Using GK-3 pickup with GK-5 settings = better results?

[Kitko]

So I got my GM-800 with AD converter and the initial impression was a weird combination of tracking latency and 'insensitivity' on one hand and too many false triggers. I experimented with 'hotness' but the only usable setting was 4. Before you ask, yes, I did set the string sensitivity to about the same feel as on my GP-10 (which I sold...) - ranging from 75 to 90 on GM-800 with hotness on 4. And it wasn't stellar.

Then I selected GK-5 in the pickup type settings. And OMG. Yes, I had to turn down individual strings' sensitivity to 30-45 give or take, but tracking improved massively. Selecting GK-3 setting meant I could not use fingerpicking. With the GK-5 setting, it wwith  MUCH better tracking and far fewer ghost notes. It was still not perfect, though.

I tested this with two guitars- on has a GK-3 kit installed, the other uses the removable unit. Both behave the same. I'm using a genuine Roland cable from the GP-10 GK bundle, both guitars worked pretty much identical when used with GP-10. I have a genuine Roland serial cable.

- Anybody else tried selecting a wrong pickup type and got better results?
- Is this normal (expected) or am I holding it wrong?

[Elantric]

There are many setting which impact GM-800 tracking for best results with your playing technique

If using a GK-3 into a GKC-AD convertor, the GM-800 has a GAIN adjust for the GKC-AD, lowering that may improve tracking.

The String Sensitivity  defaults to "65" for all strings - I prefer 35, for my technique, and then DYNAMICS, PLAY FEEL, LOW VELOCITY CUT
control minimizes notes that continue to sustain inadvertently.

Follow the Alex Hutchinson videos here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=36028.0

[Kitko]

@Elantric, thank you, I'll keep on fiddling with the settings.

What was striking though was the massive difference in 'out of the box' quality of tracking, sounds, volume, and feel when I selected GK-5 setting for my GK-3 pickup. And the fact that with hotness (gain) on 1, I got NO sounds at all at the default 65 string sensitivity.

[Kitko]

There are many setting which impact GM-800 tracking for best results with your playing technique

If using a GK-3 into a GKC-AD convertor, the GM-800 has a GAIN adjust for the GKC-AD, lowering that may improve tracking.

The String Sensitivity  defaults to "65" for all strings - I prefer 35, for my technique, and then DYNAMICS, PLAY FEEL, LOW VELOCITY CUT
control minimizes notes that continue to sustain inadvertently.

Follow the Alex Hutchinson videos here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=36028.0

I played with the settings for hours, watched the video and I'm still getting poor results.... Gain (hotness) needs to be set to 3-4 to get reasonable tracking. Dynamics, Play feel, low v cut have negligible effect to my issues.

I found this thread - https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=36181.0 - which suggests the culprit may be a less than perfectly clean 13-pin cable. I just wonder how does one clean those tiny little pins (I asked ShawnB).

However, my main issue is the inability to 'shred'. Playing the intro of this song is impossible on GM-800 while it worked perfectly on GP-10. Heck, I could play 1980s thrash metal bands riff with synth sounds. GM-800 tends to register the first stroke only on a single note. On some sounds, sweep picking is possible. But not single note strokes.

Which makes me wonder, if the cable is not the issue, whether the ZEN is build around what's physically possible to do on a keyboard rather than on a guitar and whether SY-1000 might be a better solution (albeit without pianos etc.).

Anyway, I'll keep on experimenting, I still have time to return the unit if need be

[Bluesbird]

What type of instrument were you using within the GP-10? You probably were not using its pitch to midi with a soft synth. Return your GM-800--it is the furthest device you want for shred/sweep picking/chugging/thrash metal (unless you want to blend in the normal guitar sound). The pitch to midi in the GP-10 is no better than the GM-800, so that leads me to believe you weren't using pitch to midi in the GP-10.  It sounds like this may be your first experience with pitch to midi devices--it takes lots of patience, adjustments, and modifications to your playing style to suit the particular pitch to midi device.

[Elantric]

GK 13 cable maintenance
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3132.0

IMHO,  the GM-800 being a Guitar To MIDI triggered Synth box is never going to provide the instaneous playing response and zero dropped notes  during high speed picking performance demonstrated on VGuitar Modelling units ( VG-8, VG-88, VG-99, modeling tones of GR-55, GP-10, SY-1000

Same holds true for most Guitar to MIDI systems (Fishman Tripleplay)

Details on the differences between VGuitar vs Guitar To MIDI explained here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=14088.0

However, my main issue is the inability to 'shred'. Playing the intro of this song  is impossible on GM-800 while it worked perfectly on GP-10.

Thats due to the fundamental design implementation differences between the GM-800 and GP-10 units.

The Vguitar Boss GP-10 , or its upgrade SY-1000) units are capable of  much faster shred playing and responding to all guitar playing styles. And Newest model does not instantly mean its better.

[Kitko]

Thank you, @Elantric

I see, so the GR synth on GM-800 is essentially a midi affair while the GR on a GP-10 and SY-1000 is VG.

That sucks. Especially as I sold GP-10, was going to get an SY-1000 but ended up getting GM-800.

Having said that, I got good guitar-to-midi even with a Sonuus i2M (they even featured my review on their blog or smth over a decade ago), GP-10 was good triggering sounds from Garage Band.

But I'm dissapointed with GM-800 behavior so far. I got the piano figured out, though, I can get reasonably good sweep picking and tapping results. And I love the unit for this. But generally speaking the results are mediocre even when considering the natural limitations.

It seems that I'd be better off with an SY-1000 and, perhaps, RG-55 as I can't justify both SY-1000 and GM-800. I can still return GM-800

What's your opinion, @Elantric ?

[Elantric]

Review your goals and needs.

But this whole site revolves around guitarist's  augmentation accessories, and we each have personal agendas. I still consider nothing here replaces core musicianship skills & experience, and if my passion was synthesizer sounds, Id play keyboards

[gumtown]

With guitar-midi you are pretty much dealing with 7-bit resolution (0~127) and is never going to feature as an in depth primary instrument on its own.

Not sure what type of tones you are after, but I feel the SY-1000 will more suited for your needs.

The GM-800 is going be a "some good guitar tone maker box" + GM-800 combination.

[Kitko]

What type of instrument were you using within the GP-10?
...
It sounds like this may be your first experience with pitch to midi devices--it takes lots of patience, adjustments, and modifications to your playing style to suit the particular pitch to midi device.

I used, for example, the GR-300 engine feeding the hex pickup connected to GP-10. Based on Elantric's explanation, that's not guitar to midi but VG.

I've been using guitar to midi tech and VG tech for over a decade Starting with Sonuus i2M which I used alongside Line 6 software processor. Guitar out into a Lehle splitter, one out going to TonePort soundcard for Line 6, the other out going into a custom-built kill-switch with a passive volume control so I can attenuate the strength of the signal going to Sonuus for better tracking (using synths in Logic DAW). Then I got a GR-55, then GP-10.... now GM-800.

[Bluesbird]

I used, for example, the GR-300 engine feeding the hex pickup connected to GP-10. Based on Elantric's explanation, that's not guitar to midi but VG.

I've been using guitar to midi tech and VG tech for over a decade

Well, now you know the GR300 emulation is not a pitch to midi instrument. You can add that to your ten years of knowledge of midi tech.