Boss ME-90 Phrase Looper

Started by littlespaceman, August 23, 2023, 06:19:28 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

littlespaceman

Hi everyone

I'm intrigued to see if anyone else has come across this same glitch that I'm experiencing on my new ME-90; it's only a couple of weeks old, and is running the latest firmware from Jul 23, which is Ver 1.03.

The glitch is this; I have a patch set up, with the Phrase Looper selected in the Delay Block (don't even start me on why you have to use up your delay block to have a looper in this unit, it's my greatest gripe with the ME-90! IMHO all multi-fx units and modellers with loopers should have a GLOBAL looper, but that's for another thread!)

In this patch, which is saved in User Bank 6 (U6) the Phrase Looper is of course assigned to footswitch marked 'DELAY / 4' as the looper can only be selected from within the main Delay block, which is always assigned to 4 in Manual Mode (yes, a basic delay is available in a couple of the other blocks, but the Phrase Looper is only available in the main Delay block.

So in Manual Mode I can activate the record/play/overdub functions of the looper using Footswitch 4.
If I then press the Memory / Manual footswitch, to go back to Memory Mode, what I expect to happen is that the RED LED is lit above the Memory / Manual footswitch, to show I am in Memory Mode and also there should be a RED LED above Footswitch 1, to show that I am in Patch 1.

And this is where things get a bit odd, as once I go back to Memory Mode, instead of the RED LED at Footswitch 1, I get a white flashing one instead. If I then press Footswitch 1, the LED turns RED, and if I press it again, it turns BLUE, and if I then press it a third time it turns YELLOW - yes, that's right, Footswitch 1 is now acting exactly the same as Footswitch 4 does when in Manual mode, with the Phrase Looper selected. And yes, it  is even recording/playing/overdubbing exactly as you would expect, BUT using Footswitch 1 and in MEMORY mode!

The conclusion I've come to is that there is a glitch in this firmware, that in MEMORY mode changes the assignment of the Phrase Looper to the FOOTSWITCH CORRESPONDING TO THE PATCH NUMBER. Or in other words, if I am in Patch 1 and have a Phrase Looper in the chain, when I am in Memory mode, the Looper is controllable via Footswitch 1. If I am in Patch 2 then in Memory Mode the looper is controllable via Footswitch 2. If I am in Patch 3, etc.
This seems totally wrong to me, as to my knowledge you cannot assigned the Looper to anything other than Footswitch 4, and anyway as I understand it, the looper should not even be controllable in Memory Mode, only in Manual Mode. I certainly don't expect it to be controllable via the footswitch with the same number as the patch you are in!

This is hard to explain in words, so I've added a picture here; in this picture I am in Patch 1, in Memory Mode (RED LED above Memory/Manual footswitch) and as you can see the looper is available under Footswitch 1 (it is overdubbing, as you can see from the YELLOW LED) I don't think this should be possible on the ME-90 so I've come to the conclusion this is a glitch. 


Am I missing something here? Has anyone else come across this?


Elantric

#1
Refer to ME-90 Reference Manual Page 9 for PHRASE LOOPER

Pedal indicator colors/statuses
Status                        Indication
Standby                      Blinking white (recording)
                                  Blinking blue (not recording)
Recording                  Lit red
Overdubbing              Lit yellow
Loop playback            Lit blue


QuoteI certainly don't expect it to be controllable via the footswitch with the same number as the patch you are in!
Your reported "Bug" is actually a Feature. My ME-90 (on Firmware 1.03) when you are using the Phrase Looper, and move from MANUAL MODE to MEMORY MODE, the currently selected Patch pedal LED does assume the PHRASE LOOPER function by toggling the Memory Mode Patch pedal, and current  PHRASE LOOPER status is indicated on the Patch Pedal LED COLORS to indicate the current status of PHRASE LOOPER.  (which matches your ME-90 PHRASE LOOP operation)


Sadly on all Roland/Boss Guitar MultiFX - they provide very weak 38 second looper - they prefer selling you a separate Boss RC Looper. 



To restore the ME-90 to its default factory settings
https://www.boss.info/global/support/knowledge_base/17392320793755/

littlespaceman

Ok, thanks for the reply - I guess it makes sense to be able to control the looper when you are out of Manual mode. I'm curious where you got that info though, I couldn't see anything in the manual about this? Or have you assumed that is the way it is designed. Because the next weird think that has happened is that if I have a Feedbacker selected within a patch, in Memory Mode the Feedback does the same, which is to say that in Memory Mode the Feedback is activated by the pedal corresponding to the Patch number. So what I don't know is what happens if you have both a Phrase Looper AND a Feedbacker in the same patch, then go to Memory mode...🧐

Elantric

#3
Quote from: littlespaceman on August 24, 2023, 02:13:12 AMOk, thanks for the reply - I guess it makes sense to be able to control the looper when you are out of Manual mode. I'm curious where you got that info though, I couldn't see anything in the manual about this?

This " feature" of Phrase Looper is not in the ME-90 manual - I simply tested your experience on my own ME-90, and discovered mine matches yours and reacts in same manner.  Its still a bit wonky, as when phrase loop is on playback and enter MEMORY MODE , and attempt to use a patch in a different Bank- The Phrase Loop ceases. So im still determining the full scope of Phrase Loop functionality. If you create a Bank where all 4 patches contain the Phrase Looper in the Delay Block, then you can create loops with different guitar tones stacked sound on sound.
 Correct its not in any ME-90 Documentation.


BUT it is described in the ME-80 DOCUMENTATION


QuoteBecause the next weird think that has happened is that if I have a Feedbacker selected within a patch, in Memory Mode the Feedback does the same, which is to say that in Memory Mode the Feedback is activated by the pedal corresponding to the Patch number. So what I don't know is what happens if you have both a Phrase Looper AND a Feedbacker in the same patch, then go to Memory mode...🧐

Ill test on mine as well.




My current "Mystery" is  review the silkscreen on the ME-90, Question : What do the "boxes" surrounding specific FX labels signify?  I once thought these may be FX which can be assigned to the CTL pedal- but I see on Mobile Boss Tone Studio for ME-90 that ANY effect parameter in  current Patch can be assigned.  There are some legacy ME-80 functions not described in ME-90 Documentation- so its worth all ME-90 owners read older ME-80 documentation , because there are gaps, missing information on current available ME-90 documentation.


littlespaceman

Good spot, noticing the text in the ME-80 manual - yes, that does seem to apply to the ME-90 as well, looks like they've dropped the ball a bit not including that in the ME-90 manual.

I think I can help you with the boxes surrounding specific FX labels - these are the FX that are what they call 'Selectable'. In my experience that means they can be selected only by using the drop-down menu on the app. I'm not sure if you can also select them with a convoluted combination of button presses on the unit itself. To be honest it's this sort of thing that I find a bit of a conundrum with the ME units; they sell themselves for being all about no-menu-deep-diving, but that's not actually true, in fact to my mind menus would be a lot easier than having to refer to the manual all the time to work out how to use various functions, as you simply can't remember them all. So for me the app is a good happy medium...

Elantric

#5
Quote from: littlespaceman on August 24, 2023, 11:06:12 AMGood spot, noticing the text in the ME-80 manual - yes, that does seem to apply to the ME-90 as well, looks like they've dropped the ball a bit not including that in the ME-90 manual.

I think I can help you with the boxes surrounding specific FX labels - these are the FX that are what they call 'Selectable'. In my experience that means they can be selected only by using the drop-down menu on the app. I'm not sure if you can also select them with a convoluted combination of button presses on the unit itself. To be honest it's this sort of thing that I find a bit of a conundrum with the ME units; they sell themselves for being all about no-menu-deep-diving, but that's not actually true, in fact to my mind menus would be a lot easier than having to refer to the manual all the time to work out how to use various functions, as you simply can't remember them all. So for me the app is a good happy medium...

But on ME-90, the list of "Selectable" FX are beyond the ones within "silkscreen boxes" 

I went through BTS for ME-90 and derived the complete list of (SELECTABLE) FX, in the ME-90 TUTORIAL thread.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=36096.0#msg265015

<<Reference>> Preamps and effects that can be used via the app
(Selectable) Through the dedicated apps "BOSS TONE STUDIO for ME-90 (Windows/Mac)" and "BTS for ME-90 (iOS/Android)", you will be able to select preamps and effectors that cannot be selected on the main unit alone. This is done by exchanging with a specific preamp/effector, but since the exchange is done on a patch-by-patch basis, virtually all preamps and effects can be used.

"AIRD preamplifier" inherited from the top model


The preamps included in the ME-90 are 11 types carefully selected from the top model "GT-1000". It has a good balance from clean to high gain, and models famous guitar amps, so it can handle a wide range of sounds.

NATURAL : Straightforward clean sound
X-CRUNCH : Crunch sound with crispness on all strings
X-HI GAIN : High-gain sound with a wide range and a pleasant sense of separation
MAXIMUM : Vintage Marshall with high gain
JUGGERNAUT : The ultimate metal sound with a large stack amp
X-MODDED : Core sound that remains core even with extreme gain
TWIN COMBO : Fender "Twin Reverb"
TWEED COMBO : Fender "Bassman 4×10″ Combo"
DIAMOND : VOX "AC30"
BRIT STACK : Marshall "1959 (plexi)"
(SELECTABLE)
RECTI STACK : MODERN mode of MESA/Boogie "DUAL Rectifier" channel 2
TRANSPARENT : A very flat response with a wide frequency range. Best for electric acoustic guitar
BOUTIQUE : A crunch sound that faithfully reproduces the nuances of your picking.
SUPREME : A crunch sound that takes advantage of the characteristics of a 4 x 12″ cabinet
JC-120 : Roland "JC-120"
DELUXE COMBO : Fender "Deluxe Reverb"


BOSS boasts high-quality effects

The connection order of the effects is basically this arrangement, but the order is automatically changed depending on which effect type of each block is selected. For SEND/RETURN, the stage before or after PREAMP can be selected arbitrarily.

Effectors range from orthodox effects such as overdrive, distortion, chorus, and delay, to models of famous instruments, touch wahs, acoustic simulators, and other connoisseurs, as well as projectile tools such as feedbackers and ring modulators. Beginners should start by finding one overdrive/distortion that they like.
Some effects are activated only while the switch is pressed, but to use these, press the pedal for the corresponding effect in MANUAL mode, or the number pedal for the currently selected patch in MEMORY mode.

COMP/FX1 (Compressor/Effect 1)


COMP : Compressor that also works as a limiter
T.WAH UP : Touch wah that responds upward to picking
SLOW GEAR : Produces the effect of volume playing (violin playing)
DEFRETTER : Simulates a fretless guitar
OCTAVE : Added 1 octave down and 2 octaves down. Although it is only for playing single notes, there are
    also tricks and tricks to play chords to make bugs
HUMANIZER : Change the sound of the guitar to sound like a human voice.
FEEDBACKER : Feedback only while pedaling
AC SIM : Change electric guitar sound to acoustic guitar sound
SOLO : Acts as a clean booster
TUNE DOWN : Lower the tuning of the guitar
(SELECTABLE)
S-BEND : Raises or lowers the pitch only while the pedal is depressed
D-COMP : MXR "Dyna Comp"
RING MOD : Unpredictable and devastating sound that combines internal oscillators with guitar sounds
POLY OCTAVE : Octave effect for double notes and chords
T.WAH DOWN : Touch wah that responds downward to picking
Single > Hum : Change the sound of a single coil to a humbucker sound
Hum > Single : Change humbucker sound to single coil sound


OD/DS (Overdrive/Distortion)


The adjustment of the distortion effector is unified into three, "DRIVE", "TONE" and "LEVEL", and can be operated simply.

BOOST : A booster with a distinctive midrange
OVERDRIVE : BOSS "SD-1"
T-SCREAM : Ibanez "TS-808"
CENTA OD : KLON "CENTAUR"
BLUES OD : BOSS "BD-2"
DISTORTION : BOSS "DS-1"
TURBO DS : TURBO=ON of BOSS "DS-2"
RAT DS : Proco "RAT"
METAL DS : BOSS "METAL ZONE MT-2"
CORE : BOSS "ML-2". Great for fast metal riffs
(SELECTABLE)
MUFF FUZZ : Electro Harmonics "Big Muff π"
CLEAN BOOST : A clean booster that can get a punch even by itself
TREBLE BOOST : Booster with bright characteristics
OD-1 : BOSS "OD-1
TURBO OD : TURBO=ON of BOSS "OD-2"
GUV DS : Marshall "GUV'NOR"
'60S FUZZ : Arbiter "FUZZFACE"
OCT FUZZ : Octave fuzz with added sound one octave higher


MOD (modulation)


For modulation effects other than PITCH SHIFT and OVERTONE, the volume of the direct sound is fixed.

PHASER : Unique undulation with phase-shifted sound
FLANGER : Swell like the rising/descending sound of a jet plane
TREMOLO : Periodically change the volume
CHORUS : Fluctuation with breadth and depth
VIBRATO : Intense vibrato effect that cannot be obtained normally
PITCH SHIFT : Pitch change in the range of ±2 octaves
HARMONIST : Harmonize according to the scale. Only for playing single notes
ROTARY : Rotating speaker effect
UNI-V : Modeling the "Uni-vibe"
DELAY : Standard delay with delay time 10-800ms
(SELECTABLE)
OVERTONE : MDP specification effect. Add upper and lower harmonics to create new sounds
SCRIPT PHASER : MXR "Phase 90"
STEREO CHORUS : Stereo two-phase chorus
CE-1 CHORUS : BOSS "CE-1"
AUTO WAH : Auto wah that periodically changes the filter


DELAY


In the delay, the effect group includes "TEMPO" that switches to tap tempo setting mode.

STANDARD : Standard delay with delay time 10-800ms
ANALOG : Mild sound of analog delay
TAPE : Wavering delay that reproduces tape echo. Fixed fluctuation
WARM : Warm digital delay
MODULATE : Delay with pleasant fluctuation. Fixed fluctuation
REVERSE : Reverse playback delay
TEMPO : Sets the delay time (tempo) by the interval at which the pedal is pressed
TERA ECHO : An MDP-specification effect that changes according to the strength of your picking.
SHIMMER : Sounds with changed pitch are mixed
PHRASE LOOP : Looper that can record up to 38 seconds
(SELECTABLE)
+REVERB : Delay combined with reverb
CHO+DELAY : Delay combined with chorus
WARP : Fantastic sound that takes effect only while the pedal is pressed.
TWIST : Aggressive rotation that takes effect only while the pedal is depressed. Distortion and combination recommended
GLITCH : A machine gun-like delay that only works while the pedal is pressed.


EQ/FX2 (Equalizer/Effect 2)


Each effect has 2-3 MODEs. The "FX2" section contains most of the effects in the "MOD" section, as well as effects from other sections such as delays and boosters.

Effect    MODE    content
PHASER    1: NORMAL    Distinctive undulation with phase shift
PHASER    2: SCRIPT    MXR "Phase 90"
TREM/PAN  1: TREMOLO    cyclically change the volume
TREM/PAN  2: PAN    send sound left and right
BOOST    1: MIDs    A booster with a distinctive midrange
BOOST    2: CLEAN    A booster that can punch even by itself
BOOST    3: TREBLE    Bright attribute booster
DELAY    1: STANDARD    Standard delay with delay time 10-800ms
DELAY    2: ANALOG    Mild sound of analog delay
DELAY    3: TAPE    Wavering delay that reproduces tape echo
CHORUS    1: MONO    Fluctuations with breadth and depth
CHORUS    2: STEREO    Stereo two-phase chorus
CHORUS    3: CE-1    BOSS "CE-1"
(SELECTABLE)
EQ      3 band equalizer
FLANGER : Swell like the rising/descending sound of a jet plane
VIBRATO : Intense vibrato effect that cannot be obtained normally
PITCH SHIFT : Pitch change in the range of ±2 octaves
HARMONIST : Harmonize according to the scale. Only for playing single notes
ROTARY : Rotating speaker effect
UNI-V : Modeling the "Uni-vibe"
OVERTONE : MDP specification effect. Add upper and lower harmonics to create new sounds

Among these, "BOOST" boosts from the post-preamp stage, so you can change the volume without changing the tone.

REVERB


The reverb is simple, with a single knob that controls ROOM min-max, HALL min-max, and SPRING min-max. When set to minimum, it is the same as reverb off.

PEDAL FX (pedal effect)
The expression pedal, which normally functions as a volume pedal, can activate the pedal effect by stepping in the toe direction. As for the wah, in addition to the wah pedals that can be used here, there are also touch wahs (COMP/FX1) for the top and bottom, and auto wahs (MOD) for all types of wah-related effects, and you can feel the commitment of BOSS.

WAH : Wah pedal
VOICE : Human voice-like sound
+1 OCT : Pitch change up to 1 octave
+2 OCT : Pitch change up to 2 octaves
-1 OCT : Pitch change up to 1 octave down
-2 OCT : Pitch change up to 2 octaves down
FREEZE : The freeze function is applied when the pedal is stepped on
OSC DELAY : Create delay oscillation
OD/DS : Control the DRIVE amount when using the OD/DS effect
MOD RATE : Control the RATE amount when using the MOD effect
DELAY LEVEL : Controls the volume of the delay when using DELAY


NS (noise suppressor)
While holding down the [EDIT] button, move the [BANK] pedal up and down to adjust the effect of the noise suppressor. Set to minimum to turn off.

d1stewart

Maybe everyone's figured this out by now: The outlined labels beneath parameter knobs show the parameters that are adjustable for those specific effects whose names are outlined in the effect names around the selector knob. So, e.g., in the MOD module, the Overtone effect name is outlined. For all the effects in the MOD module, the labels above the parameter knobs apply (e.g., RATE/KEY above the leftmost knob), while the outlined labels below the parameter knobs apply only for the Overtone effect (e.g., UPPER for the leftmost knob). Note, by contrast, the OD/DS module: There is no outlined label around the OD/DS selector knob, and hence no outlined labels below the parameter knobs in the OD/DS module——just the DRIVE, TONE, and LEVEL labels above the knobs.

Elantric

#7


Launch the ME-90 Tone Studio app reveals even  more "Selectable FX" per category vs the silkscreen labels

PREAMP[SELECTABLE FX]


COMP/FX1 [SELECTABLE FX]


OD/DS[SELECTABLE FX]


MOD [SELECTABLE FX]


EQ/FX2[SELECTABLE FX]


DELAY[SELECTABLE FX]


d1stewart

#8
Certain effects - 5 of them - are used only by holding the patch # pedal for the patch they're in while in Memory mode, or their module pedal in Manual mode.

Feedbacker (in Comp/FX1)
S-Bend (in Comp/FX1)
Warp (in Delay)
Twist (in Delay)
Glitch (in Delay)

There are 4 different modules in which Delay effects can be selected: In EQ/FX2 (and that has the choice of Standard, Analog, and Tape Delays); in MOD (Standard Delay); in DELAY (9 Delays, 2 Delays combined with other effects, and 3 delay-like effects); in PEDAL FX (Osc Delay, its own kind of delay).