On output modes and EQing in the MG-30...

Started by eUphonic, February 12, 2022, 12:19:13 AM

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eUphonic

See the attached files. And keep in mind that I've shared a SOLUTION in post 17 below...

I've purposedly done these tests with a sofware potentially easy to find and to use for other musicians: Rightmark Audio Analyzer. So, other people will be able to check what I publish with their own gear, if they want to.

IMPORTANT FOREWORD - Any FX / amp sim / cab sim was disabled in the MG-30 in each case.


PIC 1: white line is the response of a polyphonic signal sent directly to the board. It's as "flat" as possible in such a case.
Green line shows the response to the same stimulus of the MG30 in STUDIO DIRECT output mode.
Blue line = COMBO FRONT  mode.
Pink line = STACK FRONT mode.

No flat frequency response from the MG30 for the moment, even if all effects disabled and all EQ controls at noon... STUDIO DIRECT adds 6dB to high frequencies, centered around 6hhz. COMBO FRONT does the same @ 200hz and scoops the 1khz range of 3dB. STACK FRONT mixes these tendencies.


PIC 2: blue line = signal direct to the board for reference.
White and green lines = COMBO REAR and STACK REAR modes.

Still no flat frequency response from the MG30, even if all effects are still disabled and all EQ controls are still at noon... COMBO REAR and STACK REAR scoop the mids of 16dB and 13dB respectively (!) with different center frequencies. That's as much or more than the EQing scoop generated by the tone stack of a Fender Blackface with all controls at noon, for the record, albeit with different center frequencies. Annoying for amps whose FX loop is located before the tone stack...


PIC 3: shows the action of the EQing sliders once these controls are at +12dB or -12dB. Left column = PreEQ of the MG30. Right column = post EQ (the sliders under the "output mode" indication).
Let's note that...
1) frequencies are the same for both EQing sections, making them somehow redundant albeit they are @ the two ends of the chain ;
2) these frequencies are not those mentioned under the sliders on the screen: bass freq are centered on 100hz and not 80hz. Mids are centered on 800hz and not 500hz;
3)they have all a rather high Q factor (I was rather expecting a shelving EQ for low and high frequencies and a parametric mid control would have made sense).


PIC 4: the S/R loop is now enabled and the output mode selected is STUDIO DIRECT. The screen shows...
-the signal direct to the board for reference (green line);
-the signal sent through guitar input and captured from the "Send" plug (white line);
-the signal sent through the "Return" plug and captured from the normal output (blue line).

At least there's something able to provide a relatively flat frequency response in the MG30 (with a slight deviation in the extreme bass and high ranges but other MFX's don't do better than this in most cases when they have an FX loop): it's the section going from S/R "Return" to output. Good to know. But FWIW, the volume slider of the "Return" plug didn't seem to work when I've tested it. :-/


PIC 5: shows the Para EQ settings that I've used to flatten as much as possible the response of the MG30 from the guitar input when it's in STUDIO DIRECT output mode . This EQ was right after the guitar input and meant to be permanently enabled.

PIC 6 shows the response of the MG-30 once this EQ enabled, with guitar in > "Send" and guitar in > normal output, compared to "Return" > normal output and to the signal direct to the board for reference (= blue line in this one).

What a relief to obtain a flat response from this MFX with all FX disabled, finally!

Before to find this solution, I was not far to send back the unit to the shop. Reason: there was no way to obtain a natural sound from the MG-30 tested above as a simple FX board compared to a regular analog pedalboard.
With the "flattening para EQ" trick, it becomes much more convincing to my ears (and it diminishes the hiss with some simulations). YMMV.


FOOTNOTE: I've found useful to put the S/R loop after FX's, just before amp sim / IR's, then to use the "Send" plug as the output of a basic pedalboard. It disables the volume pedal BUT can send the signal to a regular amp while the same signal keeps feeding the amp simulation inside the MG...
Conversely, an external pedalboard can be plugged in the "Return" plug of the MG, to feed its amp simulations.
Best of both worlds, albeit it can generate some noise, of course, if the proper tools and strategies are not used. And the loop of the MG30 has a slight squashing effect on dynamics but it's not too noticeable...


EDIT - for comparison (and to verify that the results above are not due to a flawed test), PIC 7 shows in green the basic frequency response of a Valeton GP100, all FX's disabled, VS the reference signal direct to the board (white line).


Hope all this stuff to be useful for some other users. Personally, I've a hard time to understand the choices made by the NUX team when it comes to output modes and pre/post EQing... :-/


jaropda

Quote from: eUphonic on February 12, 2022, 12:19:13 AM
See the attached files.

I've purposedly done these tests with a sofware potentially easy to find and to use for other musicians: Rightmark Audio Analyzer. So, other people will be able to check what I publish with their own gear, if they want to.

IMPORTANT FOREWORD - Any FX was disabled in the MG-30 in each case.


PIC 1: white line is the response of a polyphonic signal sent directly to the board. It's as "flat" as possible in such a case.
Green line shows the response to the same stimulus of the MG30 in STUDIO DIRECT output mode.
Blue line = COMBO FRONT  mode.
Pink line = STACK FRONT mode.

No flat frequency response from the MG30 for the moment, even if all effects disabled and all EQ controls at noon... STUDIO DIRECT adds 6dB to high frequencies, centered around 6hhz. COMBO FRONT does the same @ 200hz and scoops the 1khz range of 3dB. STACK FRONT mixes these tendencies.


PIC 2: blue line = signal direct to the board for reference.
White and green lines = COMBO REAR and STACK REAR modes.

Still no flat frequency response from the MG30, even all effects are still disabled and all EQ controls are still at noon... COMBO REAR and STACK REAR scoop the mids of 16dB and 13dB respectively (!) with different center frequencies. That's as much or more than the EQing scoop generated by the tone stack of a Fender Blackface with all controls at noon, for the record, albeit with different center frequencies. Annoying for amps whose FX loop is located before the tone stack...


PIC 3: shows the action of the EQing sliders once these controls are at +12dB or -12dB. Left column = PreEQ of the MG30. Right column = post EQ (the sliders under the "output mode" indication).
Let's note that...
1) frequencies are the same for both EQing sections, making them somehow redundant albeit they are @ the two ends of the chain ;
2) these frequencies are not those mentioned under the sliders on the screen: bass freq are centered on 100hz and not 80hz. Mids are centered on 800hz and not 500hz;
3)they have all a rather high Q factor (I was rather expecting a shelving EQ for low and high frequencies and a parametric mid control would have made sense).


PIC 4: the S/R loop is now enabled and the output mode selected is STUDIO DIRECT. The screen shows...
-the signal direct to the board for reference (green line);
-the signal sent through guitar input and captured from the "Send" plug (white line);
-the signal sent through the "Return" plug and captured from the normal output (blue line).

At least there's something able to provide a relatively flat frequency response in the MG30 (with a slight deviation in the extreme bass and high ranges but other MFX's don't do better than this in most cases when they have an FX loop): it's the section going from S/R "Return" to output. Good to know. But FWIW, the volume slider of the "Return" plug didn't seem to work when I've tested it. :-/


PIC 5: shows the Para EQ settings that I've used to flatten as much as possible the response of the MG30 from the guitar input when it's in STUDIO DIRECT output mode . This EQ was right after the guitar input and meant to be permanently enabled.

PIC 6 shows the response of the MG-30 once this EQ enabled, with guitar in > "Send" and guitar in > normal output, compared to "Return" > normal output and to the signal direct to the board for reference (= blue line in this one).

What a relief to obtain a flat response from this MFX with all FX disabled, finally!

Before to find this solution, I was not far to send back the unit to the shop. Reason: there was no way to obtain a natural sound from the MG-30 tested above as a simple FX board compared to a regular analog pedalboard.
With the "flattening para EQ" trick, it becomes much more convincing to my ears (and it diminishes the hiss with some simulations). YMMV.


FOOTNOTE: I've found useful to put the S/R loop after FX's, just before amp sim / IR's, then to use the "Send" plug as the output of a basic pedalboard. It disables the volume pedal BUT can send the signal to a regular amp while the same signal keeps feeding the amp simulation inside the MG...
Conversely, an external pedalboard can be plugged in the "Return" plug of the MG, to feed its amp simulations.
Best of both worlds, albeit it can generate some noise, of course, if the proper tools and strategies are not used. And the loop of the MG30 has a slight squashing effect on dynamics but it's not too noticeable...


EDIT - for comparison (and to verify that the results above are not due to a flawed test), PIC 7 shows in green the basic frequency response of a Valeton GP100, all FX's disabled, VS the reference signal direct to the board (white line).


Hope all this stuff to be useful for some other users. Personally, I've a hard time to understand the choices made by the NUX team when it comes to output modes and pre/post EQing... :-/



great job friend!!
How can I adjust a flat response in studio direct mode?
with the pre eq ,eq in line efx or eq output?
I always said that this multi-effects was too high frequencies, not letting the mids breathe and less so the bass.
I have readjusted the output eq by raising low and lowering high frequencies.
Thank you !!!

eUphonic

#2
Quote from: jaropda on February 13, 2022, 09:46:47 AM


great job friend!!
How can I adjust a flat response in studio direct mode?
with the pre eq ,eq in line efx or eq output?
I always said that this multi-effects was too high frequencies, not letting the mids breathe and less so the bass.
I have readjusted the output eq by raising low and lowering high frequencies.
Thank you !!!

Hello,

You're welcome. :-)

You can flatten STUDIO DIRECT output mode by putting the para EQ just after the guitar input and by setting it as shown in my screenshot of Quicktone (PIC 5). Be precise because small moves make big differences in EQing. There's a sweet spot to find.

Another trick would be to put the S/R block just after the guitar input and to use its "Return" plug as guitar input but I wouldn't necessarily plug a guitar directly like that because of the impedance (220k for "Return" where the guitar input has the expected 1M value).
Now, a buffered pedal between guitar and "Return" plug should make it useable as a guitar input.
I've not yet tried this solution: I've just checked yesterday that the "Return" plug was effectively dulling the sound of a guitar plugged directly into it...
More later: my internet connection is not stable. :-/

EDIT - The preEQ can't flatten the tone. The post EQ can't either. In both cases, it just boosts or digs 100hz, 800hz, 4khz, in a "notched" way.

Now and regarding the 6dB added in the high range by the MG-30 in STUDIO DIRECT mode: it makes sense, to me. A totally flat EQing would have made the sound a bit muddy once reproduced by an average PA... I just wish Nux would have let us select a really flat EQed option, for headphones and/or for situations involving the MG-30 as a simple pedalboard going to amp.

eUphonic

While I'm at it...

Below is the frequency response of the "Tweedy" amp model, cab sim disabled, in STUDIO DIRECT output mode (PIC 1).
And under it is the same Tweedy amp filtered by other output modes.
These EQing profiles make sense, as long as the amps used have their FX loops after their tone stacks.
I just wish this adaptation was inherent to amp models and not absurdly applied to the whole frequency response of the unit...



eUphonic

#4
OK...

How the MG-30 does filter an actual guitar signal?

PIC 1 below shows in WHITE the frequency response of a Strat plugged to a 1M input when its neck pickup is electrically excited (by an ultra low impedance air coil). Any magnetic pickup is nothing else than a RLC filter so the triangular shape generated is logical (NOTE for geeks: I don't use any "integrator" circuit because I dislike to falsify resonant peaks. I like them crude for reasons that I won't explain here. YMMV).
The GREEN line is the response of the same pickup electrically excited in the same way, through an average analog pedalboard, containing at least one buffered pedal. It trims a bit the high frequencies, as expected in such cases (because of cable capacitance).

PIC 2 still shows in WHITE the resonant peak of the guitar pickup direct to the board and, in GREEN, the response of the same thing through the MG-30, all FX's disabled, in STUDIO DIRECT output mode. This pic is its own comment...

PIC 3 shows the same things once my "para preEQ" is enabled.

PIC 4 translates what the signal becomes when the guitar is plugged in the 220k "Return" plug. It's close to the pic of the response filtered by an average analog pedaboard BUT it doesn't show that the signal drops of 3dB approximatively through the "Return" plug...

PIC 5 shows what the crude resonant peak of a guitar pickup becomes through the MG-30, all FX's disabled, when other output modes are selected: COMBO FRONT, STACK FRONT, COMBO REAR, STACK REAR. Again, this pic is its own comment.

FOOTNOTE - All that being said and shown, the MG-30 is a FANTASTIC modeler, especially for the price: with my headphones, it took me 5 mn yesterday to find some tones that I was chasing since the 80's...
Hence the interest to make it even better by correcting what appears IMHO as "discussible" design choices regarding output modes. :-)




eUphonic

#5
I've tried the MG-30 in the loop of a mainstream guitar amp: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe.

The 4 cables method worked as expected, albeit with a slight comb filtering effect at low volume (reason: the Hot Rod always sends a slight amount of direct sound to the output when its loop is used).

Now, the closest thing to a real amp tone was generated through my paraEQ pre EQing  feeding an amp sim in STUDIO DIRECT output mode, cab sim disabled... I could go back and forth between real tube preamp and digital sim with minimal differences in this case.

NOTES - the scooped mids in COMBO REAR and STACK REAR modes finally appear to me as a way to keep the characteristic EQing of a preamp when all FX's and simulations are disabled in the MG-30. Once again, it makes sense. The permanent low mids bump in COMBO FRONT and STACK FRONT modes keeps being potentially annoying once the amp sim disabled, nevertheless...

eUphonic

#6
The MG30 has finally been tested in 4CM with a line level preamp. I've plugged it through my usual EbTech line level shifter in order to avoid digital distortion of the loop in the MG. The goal was to see if it had enough power on tap to reproduce a line level output when fed by a padded signal. It worked with the physical volume knob cranked up and the patch level around +4dB.

The amp was a Marshall tube amp with its input gain brutally cranked up (and power section @ 6/10)...

Pic 2 below shows its response captured between its output transformer and cab, when the amp was excited by a polyphonic signal. Green line = amp alone. Blue line = the amp in 4CM with my old trusty GT10. White line = the amp in 4CM with the MG30.

Pic 1 shows the same thing through another frequency analyser when the amp is fed by a swept mono signal. Orange line = the amp alone. Green line = 4CM with the MG30. Red line = 4CM with the GT10.
Upper graphs= frequency response. Bowed lines just below = THD. Dotted lines under these first graphs = phase response.

Tonally, the 32 bit effects of the MG30 had the expected clarity... and once again, the preamp of the Marshall could be replaced by a digital sim with satisfying results as long as the output mode selected was STUDIO DIRECT with any cab sim disabled. In any case, I've kept my "flattening pre paraEQ" enabled in the MG.

FWIW... and not without precising that many MFX's had previously failed to replace my old GT10 in 4CM (including the Nux Cerberus). The MG30 has less effects and flexibility but at least is does the job nicely.

eUphonic

#7
Forgotten to state that my preEQing remains necessary to me in 4CM.

As an attached file below is the frequency response of two line level preamp channels in 4CM in the MG30.

White & green lines = clean channel and drive channel direct to the board.

Blue and pink lines = the same channels filtered by the MG30 in 4CM.

Upper screenshot has been pictured without my pre-paraEQ trick. Below is the response of the same system once my preEQing enabled.

STUDIO DIRECT output mode in each case, of course.

Something else, for the record: a crude line level Marshall preamp (without clipping diodes)  is still too strong for such units as soon as its volume is cranked up: it will distort the PI and PA of the amp itself but a digital unit in 4CM will just reproduce its signal as a too loud clean stimulus, with digital clipping (and a IR in the MG30 needs to have its level @ -12dB in such a case or it will clip) .
The only of my IR loaders able to handle nicely this situation of extremely strong preamp signal, IME, remains the AMT Pangaea: it allows to have the same sound from the amp and from the related IR. The Nux Solid Studio could handle it too, before to develop a progressive drop of volume and tone quality after a few minutes of use (still not solved this problem, BTW; I hope the MG30 will be more reliable)...

eUphonic

I share below a pic showing how to set the parametric EQ to obtain a flat frequency response from the MG-30 in STUDIO DIRECT output mode. The EQ must be just after the guitar input.

admin

Quote
IMPORTANT FOREWORD - Any FX was disabled in the MG-30 in each case.

Question? Were MG-30 Amp modeling and CAB Sim and all CAB IR disabled too?

eUphonic

#10
Quote from: admin on February 25, 2022, 10:58:57 PM
Question? Were MG-30 Amp modeling and CAB Sim and all CAB IR disabled too?

Of course, yes. :-)

I've corrected my OP accordingly now.

jaropda

Quote from: eUphonic on February 25, 2022, 09:20:27 PM
I share below a pic showing how to set the parametric EQ to obtain a flat frequency response from the MG-30 in STUDIO DIRECT output mode. The EQ must be just after the guitar input.

Pre eq y out eq reset mode?
Thank you

eUphonic

Quote from: jaropda on February 27, 2022, 12:55:08 PM
Pre eq y out eq reset mode?
Thank you

I don't understand the question but let's try to reply in a useful way.

Input and output EQ's must be reset with all controls at noon. If their sliders aren't at noon, the unit will exhibit notched peaks or dips @ the frequencies mentioned in my first post (100hz, 800hz, 4khz).

admin

#13
Use Google Chrome Translate into English

Japanese site with  explanation of NUX MG-30 Output Modes
https://guitar-type.com/guitar/effect/nux-mg-30-3/


I got the NUX MG-30 guitar multi-effects unit!
This time, we will verify how the sound output changes depending on the OUTPUT MODE of "NUX MG-30".

The last time was a hard sound, so I verified whether it would make a soft sound.
This time I am using a speaker monitor.

OUTPUT MODE is a mode to specify the connection destination when outputting sound.
Is it connected to an amplifier? Is it connected to monitor speakers?
If you do not set this first, the sound output will not be good.

In COMBO FRONT / STACK FRONT, IR block is bypassed.
You can adjust the sound output with the 3-band EQ.

Five types are available for MG-30.
・ STUDIO DIRECT (for monitor speakers)
・ COMBO FRONT (before combo amplifier)
​​・ STACK FRONT (before stack amplifier)
​​・ COMBO REAR (combo amplifier return)
・ STACK REAR (stack amplifier return)

How to change OUTPUT MODE
[1] Press and hold the home button to display the global menu.


[2] Select OUTPUT MODE and push the knob.


[3] Move the knob left or right to select the type of OUTPUT MODE.


NUX MG-30 OUTPUT MODE Sound test




aptfx

@euPhonic

This is an incredible work!

I've tried to reproduce your ParaEQ as good as I could and did try it not with an amp but just using the amp models and into my FRFR monitors. The sound is smoother, less trebly and has more low end (obviously when looking at the curve).

I did change my output EQ settings by raising the LOW a tiny bit and lowering the HIGH a bit. Many seem to do this. The resulting flatter response from your EQ curve may be really interesting for many users.

Did you contact NUX about this? I would really like such a "flat" option just by setting a flag in the global options or something like that.

Could you make your ParaEQ settings available by exporting a patch with it?

eUphonic

Quote from: aptfx on March 03, 2022, 06:10:26 PM
@euPhonic

This is an incredible work!

I've tried to reproduce your ParaEQ as good as I could and did try it not with an amp but just using the amp models and into my FRFR monitors. The sound is smoother, less trebly and has more low end (obviously when looking at the curve).

I did change my output EQ settings by raising the LOW a tiny bit and lowering the HIGH a bit. Many seem to do this. The resulting flatter response from your EQ curve may be really interesting for many users.

Did you contact NUX about this? I would really like such a "flat" option just by setting a flag in the global options or something like that.

Could you make your ParaEQ settings available by exporting a patch with it?

Hello,
Really busy right now so no, I've not contacted Nux. Feel free to send 'em a link about my topic if you want to.
Regarding the patch with my EQ settings: In fact, I've tried to post it here but it didn't work because the file wasn't recognized as valid. I'd have to find some drop box to share it. Will try to do that later... :-)

admin

#16
Quote from: eUphonic on March 04, 2022, 08:24:11 AM
Hello,
Really busy right now so no, I've not contacted Nux. Feel free to send 'em a link about my topic if you want to.
Regarding the patch with my EQ settings: In fact, I've tried to post it here but it didn't work because the file wasn't recognized as valid. I'd have to find some drop box to share it. Will try to do that later... :-)

Just make your file a zip file

Mac
https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/zip-and-unzip-files-and-folders-on-mac-mchlp2528/mac

Win
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/zip-and-unzip-files-8d28fa72-f2f9-712f-67df-f80cf89fd4e5

eUphonic

#17
Thx Admin.

Stupidly, I hadn't seen "zip" among allowed file types.  :D

The zipped patch should be attached to this post, now.  :)

IMPORTANT NOTE about output level!
The patch shared below was designed to give unity gain when the (physical) volume knob of the unit is full up. So the patch level is set extremely low. It's intentionnal: it allows to avoid any inconsistency due to the position of the physical volume knob on the MG30 (more accessible to clumsy feet on stage than a "lateral" / perpendicular pot would be and... rather sensitive, without marks to set it properly).

eUphonic

MG30 upgraded to V3 firmware...

Nice new models and added features but the Quicktone Editor has frozen while I was toying with the new IR "collection". :-/

Never mind.

No obvious change in EQing with the new firmware. It might have smoothed a wee bit the tonal curve but I've still to enable my flattening EQ if I want the response to be identically flat for the guitar input and loop return.

FWIW.

aptfx

@euPhonic

Much discussion currently about the new VIVO amp.

The former "problem child" was the SLO. I found it always hard to get something good out of it and it seemed to be a bit broken to me. I've done a recording comparing the SLO to NeuralDSP. Same dry recording, one time with the plugin and one time reamped with MG-30 and SLO. Same settings on the amps, same IR.

https://soundcloud.com/aptfx/soldano-100-neuraldsp-vs-mg-30?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

What do you think?

eUphonic

Quote from: aptfx on March 05, 2022, 09:16:31 PM
@euPhonic

Much discussion currently about the new VIVO amp.

The former "problem child" was the SLO. I found it always hard to get something good out of it and it seemed to be a bit broken to me. I've done a recording comparing the SLO to NeuralDSP. Same dry recording, one time with the plugin and one time reamped with MG-30 and SLO. Same settings on the amps, same IR.

https://soundcloud.com/aptfx/soldano-100-neuraldsp-vs-mg-30?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

What do you think?

Hello,
I like the MG30 mainly for its clean / crunch amps and I'm not much in high gain models but I see why/where the SLO or VIVO might appears as a problem... as well as the JCM2000, BTW: too thick grainy gainy bassrange with such amp emulations. That said: 1)real amps can behave like that IME and 2)third part IR's can change drastically any of the amp models in this unit as in other modelers.

Regarding your samples: all of 'em sound good or useable to my ears, in fact. But I'm an old fart with a relativistic POV about modeling so my opinion is to take with a grain of salt.

To come back on topic I'll just state that my "flattening EQ" is NOT necessarily good for high gain amp models in the MG30. The original EQing curve of "Studio direct" output mode becomes a bonus in this case since it tightens the bass under high gain.  ;D

aptfx

I made a mistake with recording... a quite dumb one actually... I had the NeuralDSP plugin active on the MG-30 track. I've made two new recordings. The corrected one and another where I changed exactly three setting quite heavy handed: I pushed Bias to the max (biggest effect). I maxed "middle" and I lowered gain from 6 to 3.

Corrected and same settings:
https://soundcloud.com/aptfx/comparison-neural-dsp-and-mg?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

With adapted settings:
https://soundcloud.com/aptfx/comparison-neuraldsp-and-mg-30?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

eUphonic

Yep, the MG30 gives overwhelming bass... I've read somewhere that Nux has modeled the output transformer for the VIVO model and they might have overdone it.  ::)

To continue my topic: I'll try to find my own preEQing solution for high gain models and will share it below (as my "flattening preEQ" is just for the MG30 used as a virtual pedal platform).

No time for that right now: I'll be on stage in the next hours and all day long. See ya!

admin

QuoteHello,
I like the MG30 mainly for its clean / crunch amps and I'm not much in high gain models but I see why/where the SLO or VIVO might appears as a problem... as well as the JCM2000, BTW: too thick grainy gainy bassrange with such amp emulations

Change the CAB TYPE  to your preference- can also load a third party CAB IR, will have a large impact on achieving desired tone.

aptfx

#24
Quote from: eUphonic on March 05, 2022, 11:05:10 PM
Yep, the MG30 gives overwhelming bass... I've read somewhere that Nux has modeled the output transformer for the VIVO model and they might have overdone it.  ::)

The output transformer is only modeled in the VIVO model. The SLO is an older one. My theory is that there is something wrong with the bias parameters in the SLO model. As soon if I max out the Bias it sounds much closer to neuralDSP. The rest of the difference is that misses MIDDLE a lot.. I cranked it and now the result sounds quite similar to NeuralDSP. The rest is maybe finetuning Gain, treble and presence.