SY-1000 Owners Poll - DSP Alt Tuning results.

Started by admin, October 13, 2021, 01:33:59 PM

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aliensporebomb

I'll endeavor to create a support ticket and reference that the problem is more pronounced when the ALT TUNE is closest to the original pitch (-1 or +1 and gradually getting less noticeable as you increase to +5 and -5).
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

aliensporebomb

Sent!   I'll notify you all if I receive a response.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

admin_shawnb

I think there's only a couple folks responding to all US tickets, & their knowledge of specific products varies.

My support rep since apologized for confusing the gm-800 w/the sy-1000.

And then asked me if the clicks were heard when I played midi notes on the sy...

I do appreciate the support.  We just gotta break these guys in...

Elantric


aliensporebomb

#204
This was my initial response:

QuoteRoland BOSS Product Support (Roland Corporation)

20 Mar 2024, 1:23 pm GMT-7

Hello Todd,
 
Thanks for reaching out and contacting Roland BOSS USA Operational Product Support about the SY-1000.
Yes, please send us a recording or video of these issues so we can review it and pass it along to our BOSS SY-1000 engineering team for analysis and awareness.
 
Just curious, you don't happen to wear a timepiece on your picking hand?
In the past, we've had user issues with "clicking" and ended up being the sound issue.
 

LOL!   I'll send them a recording.  A timepiece on my picking hand.  That's a new one.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

IMH1234

Quote from: aliensporebomb on March 20, 2024, 02:41:47 PMThis was my initial response:

LOL!   I'll send them a recording.  A timepiece on my picking hand.  That's a new one.

Maybe this is related to users having problems with midi tracking/latency on Boss devices - perhaps they need their watches servicing?  :-X

admin_shawnb

#206
Actually - there are some great John Butler tracks (Under an Indian Sky, IIRC) where there is clicking that remind me of the cicking/knocking we hear here.  possibly his shirt cuff button hitting the guitar as he flails away...  Possibly his pick hitting the pickguard...  ~3:50 in this video...


aliensporebomb

I do hear it when he gets more animated - it does sound like he's hitting the pickguard. 
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

chrish

#208
Quote from: gumtown on March 05, 2024, 02:48:03 AMHere is a quick example using 6 string bass with GK-Kit-3B running from low B string upwards to C string 12th fret.
GK INST2 with flat amp eq and everything else off.

It seemed a little different this time, but still wacky, it comes and goes with different intensity at different notes, in a sinusoidal pattern while running up the notes.
The recording was very quiet, so the recorded file has had normalization applied to boost up the level.


I tested all the bass models tonight and I don't have that issue.

6 string Ibanez bass with GK3B, Tested with Low string tuned to B and then E.

Bass mode

All fx and amp off, Alt tuning -1

Version 1.08

I did the test with the 13 pin cable running through a US20 splitter to Sy1000 and Roland GR50 with the pickup power to pickup coming from the GR50 (that just happens to be how it's setup for normal use.)

aliensporebomb

#209
This is what I sent to Roland/Boss along with an audio file:

Hello.   I have an audio file for you reachable via soundcloud and some further findings for best results listen on headphones:

https://soundcloud.com/aliensporebomb/continued-issues-boss-sy-1000-alt-tune-with-v109-see-description

Basically Electric Guitar set to Classic Strat on INST1 with ALT TUNE Set to +1 or -1. No other effects. Effect sounds like a slapback delay or slapback noise gate almost immediately after playing a note. Most noticeable on clean electric guitar or acoustic guitar, though also noticeable using Sitar, Banjo or the like. Playing scales really shows the issue. Sometimes sustaining a note while muting other strings creates artifacting in the sustained note.  Very last segment of this very boring audio is a patch I created -7 for all strings and modulation and delay with alt tune and that sounds fine. Farthest distance from standard pitch seems to be less effected with closest -1 more noticeable as well as +1. Problem seems most pronounced when you are trying to create a clean electric or acoustic guitar pitched differently Michael Hedges style and creates a strange gated response to notes - I also noticed that "Drop D" or "Drop Db" seems also effected but not as strongly and the low E, A and D strings are most effected when the issue does happen.


0:00 standard
0:17 pitched up 1
0:30 pitched down 1
0:46 pitched up 2
1:01 pitched down 2
1:58 acoustic guitars
2:54 pitching down and down and down and down
3:24 single notes on electric guitar but "slapback" is coming from alt tune
3:42 -7 modulated chorused reverbed stringpad

3:25 in my soundcloud file, the "slap echo" is created by the problem, I was just playing single notes.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

kevorkian

Quote from: aliensporebomb on March 21, 2024, 01:32:54 PMThis is what I sent to Roland/Boss along with an audio file:

Thanks for doing and submitting this. Are you still using shawnb's patch? I'd like to test this as well and I'd like to use the same patch just for completeness.

aliensporebomb

#211
Yes, using Shawn B's patch but I've renamed it in case Boss/Roland wants a copy.  I think it's interesting in that after investigating more it's most obvious on the lower E, A and D strings with ALT TUNE set to -1 and +1.   The further you go away from 0 the less noticeable it is.  I think -1 is actually the worst sounding.  The higher pitched strings are still effected just not as bad.

Check out the odd artifacts too at 23 to 27 seconds, sounds like it's stuttering.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

kevorkian

Quote from: aliensporebomb on March 22, 2024, 06:39:15 AMYes, using Shawn B's patch but I've renamed it in case Boss/Roland wants a copy.  I think it's interesting in that after investigating more it's most obvious on the lower E, A and D strings with ALT TUNE set to -1 and +1.   The further you go away from 0 the less noticeable it is.  I think -1 is actually the worst sounding.  The higher pitched strings are still effected just not as bad.

Check out the odd artifacts too at 23 to 27 seconds, sounds like it's stuttering.


Yes the stuttering sounds wild. Everything you recorded sounds more extreme to me than what I've noticed while using 1.09 but I've also haven't been using small interval pitch shifts as often as I have previously.

However, I was using the virtual capo pitch shift in my Axe Fx the other day and it works well.  I've also had fantastic results using the EHX PitchFork, so it's a total shame that a hex solution like the SY-1000 would produce results like this and Boss should know. I'll do some testing soon.

Elantric

#213
Quote from: kevorkian on March 22, 2024, 07:45:48 AMYes the stuttering sounds wild. Everything you recorded sounds more extreme to me than what I've noticed while using 1.09 but I've also haven't been using small interval pitch shifts as often as I have previously.

However, I was using the virtual capo pitch shift in my Axe Fx the other day and it works well.  I've also had fantastic results using the EHX PitchFork, so it's a total shame that a hex solution like the SY-1000 would produce results like this and Boss should know. I'll do some testing soon.

Fwiw, the Digitech "The Drop" pedal also yeilds useable results to drop whole guitar to Eb tuning
Ive tested many similar products and observed the lowest latency occurs for full octave drops and after the full octave drop, as the target pitch drop is raised 1/2 step up , the latency is higher, with highest latency ( read highest DSP work load) occurs when altering a normal tuned guitar down 1/2 step to Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Bb, Eb on any pitch change product - and Antares ATG-1 with a GK-3 Hex Pickup into the ATG-1, GK input,  accomplished this task the best- with least anomalies

aliensporebomb

#214
Quote from: kevorkian on March 22, 2024, 07:45:48 AMYes the stuttering sounds wild. Everything you recorded sounds more extreme to me than what I've noticed while using 1.09 but I've also haven't been using small interval pitch shifts as often as I have previously.

However, I was using the virtual capo pitch shift in my Axe Fx the other day and it works well.  I've also had fantastic results using the EHX PitchFork, so it's a total shame that a hex solution like the SY-1000 would produce results like this and Boss should know. I'll do some testing soon.

I actually would love that stuttering as an effect, it only happened once when I was recording like that.  But it sounded interesting.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

aliensporebomb

#215
Oh good grief - days and no response but their stupid system is set up that you can't respond to their email with a soundcloud link, you have to go back to the link on their website and drag and drop an MP3 because a WAV or AIFF is too large for their system to accommodate.  I hope the 320 kbps MP3 shows them the issue.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Brak(E)man

Quote from: aliensporebomb on March 22, 2024, 01:30:47 PMI actually would love that stuttering as an effect, it only happened once when I was recording like that.  But it sounded interesting.
OT but here you go

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?msg=202532
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

aliensporebomb

They responded.  They wanted me to make sure my GK SENS levels weren't redlined (no, they really weren't though I tested that a while back). 
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Nobulusprime

I hope they have the energy and resources to fix this and the OSC synth issue. I'm going to contact them again and see how we get on...

aliensporebomb

I was busy all the last week so couldn't doublecheck the SENS settings, I know I tried it at 100 for a while just to see what I could do with it.  But I thought I backed them down some.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.