Gibson Original Robot ( GOR) upgrade

Started by sunshine, December 05, 2009, 09:18:22 AM

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sunshine

Thanks for the admins to creating this discussion forum for GOR!!!

I wonder, if there is any GOR owners waiting to upgrade their GOR?!?!? I think we are in the same boat with DF owners. This technique needs to be upgraded.

Or do you GOR owners just keep your guitars in original shape?



RPM-fgn

I plan to upgrade my GOR.  The DF tuners are much faster, but waiting to see what the damage will be (cost).

sunshine

My goal is to get more presets. For example John Fogerty's guitar is down the whole step (low D in the Dark Fire). This "CCR tuning" is totally missing from GOR and I don't want to miss any default tuning.

But I don't mind to get Chameleon Tone if it is possible ;)


Elantric-fgn

of course on Dark Fire - we can not use that "low" baritone tuning bank  - which includes the whole step low "D" tuning  without changing to heavy gauge strings.
. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

sunshine

Quote from:  Elantric on December 29, 2009, 07:48:57 AM
of course on Dark Fire - we can not use that "low" baritone tuning bank  - which includes the whole step low "D" tuning  without changing to heavy gauge strings.

I just confirm my knowledge - my understanding if I have heavy gauge strings in Robot, I can change tunings to low D to standard E, to anything. Without breaking the guitar. Is it so?  ???


Elantric-fgn

#6
I do not own a robot - but I understand the Manual states that .010" gauge strings are used.

Because there are torque limitations in the tuners  - Heavy strings are NOT recommended.

Does the original Robot drop all strings a whole step for "D" reference tuning ( DGCFAD)?

Perhaps read page 34 of the GOR Manual. and create a "Custom Altered Tuning" and build your own CCR Tuning.

BTW - I know Fogerty often used a MusicMan baritone 6 string on recordings these past 20 years




its probably in the Manual.
http://www.gibson.com/robotguitar/robot-guitar-manual.pdf


. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

sunshine

Quote from:  Elantric on December 29, 2009, 08:12:53 AMBTW - I know Fogerty often used a MusicMan baritone 6 string on recordings these past 20 years

Thanks Elantric! I lean my knowledge only to GarageBand Artist lessons (Proud Mary and Fortunate son), where Mr Fogerty tells that his "black Les Paul is dedicated to tuned down a whole step". He also recommend thicker strings because of better sound, but also because, if the player is going to tune guitar a lot between standard tuning and low D tuning.

Manual doesn't tell it clear, "how to work with low D on GOR". But especially I want to find an information about GOR upgrade point of view. That's in a key situation if I'm going to upgrade or not. It would be really nice if Tronical answer to this question.


matbard-fgn

Put some Pyramid strings on: they are of heavier gauge and lower tension.
-

--> Matteo Barducci

RPM-fgn

Quote from:  sunshine on December 29, 2009, 07:36:40 AM
My goal is to get more presets. For example John Fogerty's guitar is down the whole step (low D in the Dark Fire). This "CCR tuning" is totally missing from GOR and I don't want to miss any default tuning.

But I don't mind to get Chameleon Tone if it is possible ;)



I got a message from customer service indicating that the upgrade for the G.O.R. is only going to be faster tuning capability.  I will wait for the official announcement from Gibson, but I was hoping for more than just faster tuning.

matbard-fgn

The pickups system on the GOR is very different from the Robot Gen. II guitars, so I don't think it will be possibile to have the Chamaleon Tone on the Robot I.
-

--> Matteo Barducci

simont-fgn

#11
At last, some good news for GOR owners. :D

http://forums.gibson.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=391436#post391436

"A message from the Gibson USA division;

Dear Generation 1 Robot Owners,

Gibson USA has always held our customers in highest regard. Throughout our history we have built guitars that continue to build on the legacy of Les Paul and the Gibson name. When we launched the Generation 1 Robot, the technology was state of the art. Since then, we have continued to improve that technology. Given those improvements, we made commitments to you, our dedicated customers, to provide an upgrade path to the Generation 2 tuning method.

Finally, after your long and patient wait, we have developed a solution that will be able to upgrade your guitars to the Generation 2 tuning. There are 15 different components including a new battery, new tuning keys and new CPA that need to be changed in your existing guitar to make this happen. None of these changes will affect the appearance of the guitar. The new tuning keys and neck board will cover the existing location on the head stock. The rest of the components are all internal to the guitar.

In order to upgrade the guitar, we will require that you ship your guitar to an authorized service center where qualified technicians will go through the process of changing out components and ensuring a fully functional guitar. We are doing all of this at cost and expect the full package to be around $700 per unit.

Initially, we will only be able to upgrade the Les Paul and SG Generation 1 Robots. We are attempting to assess the level of demand for the upgrade within the owner community. Please reply with your willingness/desire to upgrade your guitar to the Generation 2 tuning method as soon as possible.

Sincerely,

Gibson USA"

Elantric-fgn

#12
$700 for any Robot LP or Robot SG.
. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

Elantric-fgn

. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

MCK-fgn

Quote from:  Elantric on February 09, 2010, 04:13:39 PM
Who keeps the old parts?

Thats a key question... Either way this is bound to put a spanner in the eBay sellers who cannibalize $1000 robots and sell parts for exorbitant sums.

Lets do the maths on the 15 parts...

1 x spider - headstock cpu
6 x tuners
1 x tailpiece
1 x tailpiece to cpu wire
1 x bridge
1 x bridge to cpu wire
1 x main cpu in guitar
1 x toggle switch
1 x battery
1 x new removable battery hatch

Total I worked out : 15 - BINGO!


Dark Fire Initial Check Out  - Q/A
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31267.0

Caig DeOxit - Buy now before you need it !!!
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31707.0

Elantric-fgn

#15
QuoteEither way this is bound to put a spanner in the eBay sellers who cannibalize $1000 robots and sell parts for exorbitant sums.

Like this guy?

http://shop.ebay.com/westfield_1/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686




i doubt this will include the Dusk Tiger type Battery. and battery holder.

If the original owner gets to keep the old parts, you could fund the entire upgrade by selling off the old Gen 1 parts and  probably make quite a profit.

i suspect the break down is

1 x spider - headstock cpu $50
6 x tuners $75ea = $450
1 x tailpiece  $95
1 x tailpiece to cpu wire $10
1 x bridge $195
1 x bridge to cpu wire $10
1 x main cpu in guitar $399
1 x updated MCK $50
1 x battery $60
1 x new Charger Adapter $179



. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

MCK-fgn

Yup. I especially feel sad for the guys who sell the "rare" GOR charger for $250+ and now it can be bought off Gibson online for much less! NOT! Oh well. Necessity is the mother of all inventions. Up to now there was no way for folks to get parts to repair their GOR so eBay option was the only game.

Your list looks more credible. Don't know how I forgot the MCK anyways!!! Tsk tsk. Ultimately if you factor in the cost of labor as well the $700 figure sounds reasonable. It will come with a 1 year warranty too + they must also be costing in some amount of support calls / bug fixes etc.
Dark Fire Initial Check Out  - Q/A
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31267.0

Caig DeOxit - Buy now before you need it !!!
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31707.0

sunshine

Just "few milliseconds" faster tuning?... eh... more presets? No new MCK? No Chameleon? 700$... come on... give me something.

Elantric-fgn

#18
Reviewing the technology, the GOR Bridge and Tailpiece MUST be replaced, as these do not support the Power and Data protocols required of the Gen II Servo Motor Tuners,




===
The best info is in this post:

http://forums.gibson.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=23030
The new and faster RoboHead tuners are completely different from GOR tuners.
They need a different contacting PCB and CPU on the headstock along with the new CPU in the body and the battery. Simply exchanging the RoboHeads wont work!!

Again, all hardware parts would need to be changed for an upgrade, including all pots, the Jack plate, the contacting PCB and CPU, Body electronics, the Battery, the RoboHeads and so on...
As for the SG its true that the longer threaded Les Paul pots wont fit in the cavity.
Besides this, as far as I know (not sure though), the upgrade was supposed to be offered for the
First Run Limited Edition customers only.
At the end you have to ask Gibson.

Tronical
You play. We tune.

-----

Re: "It sounds like this upgrade would be like a whole new system!"

Thats correct, its a whole new system.
Its also correct that it has always been a "rule" for Tronical to design a modular system that could be retrofitted without the need for destructive rebuilding or re-working. If for some reason there is the need to remove the system and put in regular hardware to get a "regular" guitar, it would be possible.
The Original Robot System was designed to fit different models like LP, SG, FV , Explorer and so on...

The Dark Fire is a complete new design for Les Paul models only.
For example, the electronic cavity of the SG models is way less deep than the LP cavity. Also, the Toggle switch is located in this cavity, too. The new design of the Dark Fire System does not fit for SG.
It may be possible by moving the toggle to the LP toggle position, and by using short threaded pots...
Very likely that there are other points which I am not aware of at the moment!
All of this requires major routing work... I would call that "destructive".

Tronical
You play. We tune.
---------------

Re: Dark Fire Upgrade Kits

1) The new Dark Fire technology will fit in virtually any LES Paul style guitar, if the basic design parameters and reference values are at least similar. Crucial points are:

- headstock drill pattern
- electronic cavity dimensions (depth!!)
- toggle switch position
- bridge and tailpiece stud spacings
- Jack Plate routing

2)
It would also be possible to have an Upgrade Kit to Dark Fire´s tuning specs only (no Chameleon Technology!!).
Therefore the cavity dimensions and the toggle switch position would not be a deal breaker, even SG, Explorer and FV models would be possible by using adapted headstock Contacting PCBs, like the different GOR models used to have. Also, Bridge and tail stud spacings are the same and would fit.

Finally I want to point out that all Tronical technology is exclusive to Gibson.
However, its up to Gibson to bring an Upgrade Kit to market, we will see....


Tronical
You play. We tune.
-----------------
1)
SG upgrade to full Dark Fire SPECS (including Chameleon Tone Technology) is nearly impossible, because the Dark Fire is a complete new design for Les Paul models only. For example, the electronic cavity of the SG models is way less deep than the LP cavity. Also, the Toggle switch is located in this cavity, too. The new design of the complete Dark Fire System does not fit for SG.
It may be possible by moving the toggle to the LP toggle position, and by using short threaded pots...
Very likely that there are other points which I am not aware of at the moment!
All of this requires major routing work... I would call that "destructive".

Most of the above is due to Dark Fires Chameleon Tone Technology and the respective electronic hardware.
This could be left out:


Long story short: The electronic hardware for the Chameleon Tone makes the difference due to existing cavity space.


Tronical
You play. We tune.


. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

Elantric-fgn

#19
Seems like the same broken record - When I read this statement, I interpreted that an Upgrade solution was READY TODAY!:

"Finally, after your long and patient wait, we have developed a solution that will be able to upgrade your guitars to the Generation 2 tuning. . . . .

Initially, we will only be able to upgrade the Les Paul and SG Generation 1 Robots.
In order to upgrade the guitar, we will require that you ship your guitar to an authorized service center where qualified technicians will go through the process of changing out components and ensuring a fully functional guitar.
"


then 48 hours later - they tell you on the phone:

1) There is no actual date of availability yet.


These guys have no clue the damage they continue to self induce to their own credibility as a company.
They are masters of disinformation.





. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

MCK-fgn

Order GOR upgrade get who knows what... After the firewire rather than GK cable snafu I'd be very vary of ordering anything from them sight unforeseen.
Dark Fire Initial Check Out  - Q/A
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31267.0

Caig DeOxit - Buy now before you need it !!!
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31707.0

Elantric-fgn

#21
QuoteI was also told that Gibson Customer Service would be posting information as soon as they are informed onto their web.

So in other words the recent Press release is only buying them time, with nothing substantial to convey.

The Gibson PR folks are all ex CIA dis-info agents.
So when I read last weeks press release:

"Finally, after your long and patient wait, we have developed a solution!"


It actually means 


"Feed them something/anything to hold them over a couple months, and Maybe  - just Maybe the NEW Gibson Robot 4 Launch in April, 2010 will enchant and amaze the masses enough that GOR Owners will FORGET all about OUR PROMISES to upgrade their stale 2007 Robot technology to 2008 technology , and instead march en masse to a Guitar Center and trade up for the new Generation 4 model with 2010 technology. "



They act like its 1958 and we are all eagerly awaiting the new model Chevy.




. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

Elantric-fgn

#22
Which makes ZERO Sense - as they list the Headstock PCB three times

"Neck Housing"

"Neck(Complete Assembly) for SP1B"

"Neck(Complete Assembly)"



I bet the You Rock Guitar is in my hands before anyone has their GOR upgraded ( I expect April 2010 for YRG) - simply because Gibson cant convey to GOR owners precisely what features are actually in the GOR upgrade, or when it will ever be available.

http://web.archive.org/web/20100411022530/http://www2.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Blogs/Gibson-USA.aspx
. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

Zipidy-fgn

Quote from:  PLexxiTronic
a) Are customers able to keep the original parts (since they now own them and in case they wish to return their guitar to its original state).

This is the question I'm most curious about...

sunshine

Quote from:  Elantric on February 23, 2010, 06:05:46 PM
Which makes ZERO Sense - as they list the Headstock PCB three times

I know how Gibson can show us even longer list. Lets take those parts to parts... screws, glue, metal, plastic...

Sad...  :'(