Author Topic: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.  (Read 32798 times)

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Offline Elantric

GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« on: February 12, 2011, 03:21:46 AM »
Often "new" Asian built electronics contacts, cable pins, Jacks, get coated with a very thin film of anti-corosive chemical film - to survive the boat trip on the pacific. Older gear will suffer from oxidation / corrosion just sitting in contact with the atmosphere where smog, ozone, dirt, sand, beer, sugar from spilled mixed drinks work in concert to destroy the integrity of the 14 separate electrical connections within the 13 pin cable interface.
This results in intermittent noises, crackles, Hum, string signal dropouts, weak string response, poor GTR to MIDI tracking  and a host of other anomalies.(like VG-99 / GR-55 flipping through the patches by itself, or GK-Volume jumping up and down ) - or simply "no sound on many strings , or just one string's signal dropping out


To remove and breakdown this invisible film (new cables)  , or remove / clean the oxidation layer (old cables) from the Cable & Connector contacts, perform the following sequence  :

1 ) Apply a small amount of Caig De-Oxit D5 to all 13pin connections on both ends of the cable. Dont forget the 13 pin connectors on your Guitar and your processor (VG-99,GR-55, etc)

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DeoxIT



2) At one end of the Roland GK13 pin cable, Depress the Cable lock on the 13pin male DIN plug end. 

3) While keeping the Cable lock depressed, rapidly insert and remove the 13 pin male DIN plug end at the GR-55 / VG-99 "GK IN" jack. Rapidly do this at least 10 times.

4) Swap cable ends.

5) Repeat Step #3 above.

6) Now, while keeping the Cable lock depressed, rapidly insert and remove the 13 pin male DIN plug end at the GK-3 "GK IN" jack.  Rapidly do this at least 10 times.

7) Swap cable ends.

8 ) Repeat Step #6 above.


---
The above procedure may restore your older Roland GK 13 cables, because over a period of time, the electrical connections are exposed to air and tend to develop an oxidation layer that restricts proper electron flow.

Heres a Link to Caig DeOxit - they even sell it at your local Radio Shack now.
USE SPARINGLY
https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-D5S-6-DeoxIT-Contact-Cleaner/dp/B00006LVEU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1488933008&sr=1-1&keywords=caig+deoxit


====



Remember the GK-13 interface is flawed IMHO - using only ONE Ground Connection for all Analog signals , +7V/-7V distributed Power Supply Reference, and Control Voltage reference, using Only the large round chrome circular Shell on the DIN 13 connector for the crucial ELECTRICAL GROUND  connection to the GK-3.

The "achilles heel" weakest link is the tiny mating electrical contact finger for the large round Shell  'Ground" connection on the female 13 pin jacks on your guitar, GK-3 or  VG-99, GR-55. If this important electrical connection is flaky - you will have problems just as you are currently experiencing ! (see yellow circle below)

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4262.msg29539#msg29539


Also -try to locate a spare GK-3 and different 13 pin cable and see if those correct the problems you are experiencing.


This video explains all the above problems.






A few folks modify all their 13 pin gear to use pin #9 as a 2nd Ground connection, but that voids your warranty.

All Metal Chassis Mount Female 13 pin DIN jacks seem like they might solve this Intermittent Ground issue due to a 360 degree all metal contact area for the Male plug. But in practice they also suffer intermittent Ground contact connection

Gumbo sells a version that accepts the Roland locking plugs here
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8888.0


But the "Stock internal GK-KIT-GT-3 Jack does include a special "spring metal" contact that is designed to place high torque contact directly to the Round shell of the attached DIN 13 male plug on the GK13 cable   

http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/285712-Roland-00564556
The big deal about the official Roland Gk13 pin jack below is the large chrome area just behind the front face of the jack - this grips the large circular Ground connection on the DIN 13 plug and makes a good ground connection that is often lacking on other DIN 13 jacks   






Learn How to over/under wrap your audio cables

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17715.msg126215#msg126215


If all else fails  - read

DIY - Replacing GK 13-pin connectors with more Reliable Alternatives
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17038.msg142396#msg142396

« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 06:30:55 PM by admsustainiac »

Offline Zummooz

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2011, 04:28:06 AM »
Hi all  ;D
If ya can't find this stuff locally near you, can get from 'Stewart MacDonald'....This mob are great & very fast delivery.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Supplies:_Cleaners_and_lubricants/DeoxIT_Pot_and_Switch_Cleaner.html
Cheers

Sorry USA only, Can't send overseas !!
« Last Edit: February 12, 2011, 04:39:10 AM by Zummooz »
The  Fact  Is......"We  are  all  tactile  creatures  &  physical  interaction  has  always  been  a  big  part  of  making  music"

Offline Elantric

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2011, 10:10:18 AM »
Caig Labs products ( makers of Deoxit spray)  are available in all regions of the globe
http://www.caig.com/


down under in Oz - buy it here:
http://www.eav.com.au/caig.shtml

In the UK
http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/Caig-Labs-DeOxit-D5-Contact-Cleaner-Spray/product_1150

I typically buy it from Amazon.com


I just give a short blast of Caig De-0xit on all my 13 pin connectors every 9 months and don't have any problems 

I use Caig De-oxit on a regular basis on all jacks and tube sockets open relays, vol pots, tone pots, rotary switches, any "non sealed "switch contact that has exposure to air will eventually oxidize, and prevent electron flow.

I used to use its predecessor Caig Cramolin R5, but they had to change the formula to be less toxic in the mid 1990s  - so they call it Caig De-oxit since mid 90's - but same effectiveness.

Every touring Guitar Tech and amp repairman I know keeps several cans in his tool kit
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 06:53:47 AM by Elantric »

Offline MCK

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2011, 10:15:38 AM »
UK source with very reasonable international shipping rates :

 Web: www.russandrews.com
 e-mail: orders@russandrews.com
 phone: 0845 345 1550
 fax: 01539 797325
 For International telephone order enquiries please call
 00 44 1539 797300 or Fax 00 44 1539 797325

Offline HCarlH

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2011, 03:14:43 PM »
Thanks for the sticky!! :)

I"m sure this will help many frustrated synth guitar users.
GR-55 + Kemper Profiling Rack / FCB1010 MIDI controller  -->>  QSC K10 -->> FOH
Fishman Tripleplay
Fender Squier Stratocaster Bullet (w/GK3), Ibanez AM93 (w/GK2) Gibson Les Paul, PV Wolfgang, Stratocasters, Telecaster, Charvel SoCal ProMod.

Offline viramundo

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2011, 05:23:58 PM »
Did a gig with the GR-55 tonight & it seems like my 13 pin cable is faulty.

These things are unbelievably expensive & quite crap in quality aren't they?

The GKC-3 is discontinued now I understand as I'd ideally like a shorter cable than the 5 or 10m versions.

Can the plugs be bought from anywhere & leads made up?

Offline Elantric

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2011, 05:31:29 PM »
Every 13 pin cable that gets shipped with GR-55 requires contact cleaning  - details are here:
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3132.0


FWIW - Two short 1 meter 13 cables are included with every Roland US-20
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=61
« Last Edit: May 10, 2011, 05:43:00 PM by Elantric »

Offline viramundo

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2011, 05:57:16 PM »
Every 13 pin cable that gets shipped with GR-55 requires contact cleaning  - details are here:
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3132.0


FWIW - Two short 1 meter 13 cables are included with every Roland US-20
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=61

Thanks, I see that Caig DeOxit comes in many different sizes & flavours so to speak.

Is the Caig DeoxIT D100L 2ml Squeeze Tube any good? Bearing in mind that just a tiny amount of the product is recommended.


Offline viramundo

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2011, 06:04:14 PM »


FWIW - Two short 1 meter 13 cables are included with every Roland US-20
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=61

Isn't that product discontinued now too?

A lot of dosh anyway & 1m might be a little too short I think.

Offline Elantric

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2011, 06:22:31 PM »
Roland US-20 is NOT discontinued
http://www.roland.com/products/us-20/




Quote
Caig DeoxIT D100L 2ml Squeeze Tube any good? B


Yes - that will work fine - focus on getting the contact cleaner on the actual electrical contacts - a little goes a LONG way.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 04:03:13 PM by Elantric »

Offline banditt11

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Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2011, 06:35:05 PM »
I just dabbed a little rubbing alcohol over the top of the pins with a Q tip and unplugged and replugged a few times and mine works great now.
Frank Betts
2012 American Strat
Gibson double cut faded guitar
Peavey Classic 30 tube amp
Peavey Bandit Special
ME-70 foot pedal
GR-55 Roland synth
www.frontcentermusician.blogspot.com

Offline viramundo

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2011, 07:50:21 PM »
US-20 is only discontinued in the UK it seems.



Yes - that will work fine - focus on getting the contact cleaner on the actual electrical contacts - a little goes a LONG way.

Great thanks

I've ordered some.

While I'm waiting for it to be delivered would a bit of WD40 help any?

Offline Elantric

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2011, 08:08:34 PM »
Avoid WD-40, it leaves behind too much oily film which attracts dirt and contaminants.

Use isopropyl alcohol until the Caig DeOxit arrives.

It's important to note All of the 13 pins are assigned to Power or Signals.  The biggest problem is the Ground contact Inside the female Jack which must mate with the large round chrome plated metal shell on the 13 pin Cable connector  This is the ONLY Analog / Digital / Earth Shield Ground connection on the entire DIN 13 cable, and the Female Jack's Ground contact is the typical source of 90% of the cable noise. Nothing works right when the Ground connection is flaky.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 06:08:08 PM by Elantric »

Offline drjoness2001

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2011, 10:48:29 PM »
I used to wire my GK-2A guitars and synth (VG-88) with pin 9 as ground. I hated the jack/shell ground. I wish there was a dedicated pin for ground. The old Roland 24-pin gear had four wires for ground!

Offline Elantric

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2011, 11:10:01 PM »
Wayne, I totally agree!

I actually miss those old 24 pin cables. I thought those were far more robust and sturdier than these terrible 13 pin Circular DIN cables. I know a few pro tour managers who refuse to allow 13 pin gear on the stage, due to too many ongoing mid tour maintenance issues with the cables, that have high potential to stop the show.

As a test -  stand on one end of your 13 pin cable  - the male 13 pin plug , and watch $50  go down the drain.

We need a cable that is crush proof, beer proof, and can survive rock & roll stage antics. The Roland 13 pin cable is NOT the solution.

   
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 06:09:00 PM by Elantric »

Offline viramundo

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2011, 03:59:45 AM »


We need a cable that is crush proof, beer proof, and can survive rock & roll stage antics. The Roland 13 pin cable is NOT the solution.

 

Amen!

Offline viramundo

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2011, 04:46:18 PM »


Use isopropyl alcohol until the Caig DeOxit arrives.



I got some isopropyl alcohol but it didn't make any difference, the problem seems to be on one plug end only, I suspect it's going to mean a new cable but I'll give the Caig DeOxit a try first.

Offline Willie941

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2011, 06:30:55 PM »
I bought my GR 55 in february and the cable didn't transmit the info from the 3th string, I took it back to Guitar center and they didn't have a replacement. They told me that they will call Roland to get a new (and working) cable, but after 3 months...nothing. This week the guy of GC told me to call Roland myself and try to get the cable...hmm very disappointing. Now, I'm gonna try this trick...hope it helps.  ???
Parker Nitefly SA w/GK3
Godin ACS SA Nylon
Roland GR 55 and VG 88
Fishman SA220 Soloamp
TC Helicon Voicelive2

Offline Bachtorock

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2011, 04:19:26 PM »
I've seen 13 pin cables on Ebay for car stereo CD changers for around 15 bucks. I bought one and it works great!

Offline billbax

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2011, 05:01:03 PM »
In the UK you can get an inexpensive 13pin din for 96 pence.  http://www.esr.co.uk/electronics/connectors-din.htm If you want, you can then ream out a metal 5pin din shell and insert the 13 pin connector bit... a kind of hybrid.

Rip open a great OFC multicore from Rapid Electronics http://www.rapidonline.com/sku/Cables-Connectors/Cables/Screened-Audio-Cable/Pre-jacketed-lapp-screened-multi-core/62372/02-0654

Once soldered you can use a spiral-wrap http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-Connectors/Cables/Conduit-And-Trunking/Spiral-binding/82704/kw/Spiral+cable+wrapping

You should end up with a maintainable 13 pin cable for life, simply because of the spiral wrap.  The 13 pin latching problem is easily cured by using a some heatshrink.

Check out my powered GK cable movie.



MAKE YOUR OWN



Cheers,

Bill
www.separate-strings.co.uk

 
« Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 10:34:35 AM by billbax »

Offline res075oh@gte.net

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2011, 07:36:02 PM »
About 99.99...% of users of those cables report they're crap.  No locks, for example; and difference impedance on the conductors.  YMMV>

James
.
.


I've seen 13 pin cables on Ebay for car stereo CD changers for around 15 bucks. I bought one and it works great!

Offline zaknbou

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2011, 02:01:27 AM »
Bill are those cable u made for sale alone?

Regards,
Samer

Offline billbax

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2011, 04:40:28 AM »
Hi Samer,

I would like to be able to sell my custom 13 pin cable, but they simple take to long to assemble... upwards of 8 hours.  I suppose the idea behind that movie and links posted here, was to show how it's possible to make a fully maintainable 13pin cable, with all the necessary soldering and construction skills.

regards,

Bill
www.separate-strings.co.uk
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 06:47:46 AM by billbax »

Offline paulmisaac

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2011, 06:38:43 PM »
I have a modeling amp - Yamaha DG60FX-112 - which uses a 13 pin cable to connect to the foot pedal.  I've just tried it and it works with my Gr-55.  It might be worth finding one of those if they are cheaper?  It seems pretty well made

« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 06:11:21 PM by Elantric »

Offline viramundo

Re: GK 13 pin Cable Maintenance Tips.
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2011, 08:29:12 AM »
I have a modeling amp - Yamaha DG60FX-112 - which uses a 13 pin cable to connect to the foot pedal.  I've just tried it and it works with my Gr-55.  It might be worth finding one of those if they are cheaper?  It seems pretty well made

Cant find that one but Axon appear to make one & it does look cheaper than the Roland one..

I guess it'd work with the GR-55.

http://www.axon-technologies.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=33