Waza Air Mod for 1/8" Stereo Line output

Started by Mrchevy, May 02, 2020, 10:32:38 AM

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Mrchevy

Ok all, let the festivities begin (or not??). So I had mentioned a while back about opening these things up and seeing whats inside. 1 for curiosity, and 2, to see if it would be possible to ad a switched 1/8" stereo headphone jack to use as a line output to feed, in my case the aux in on my THR10c for starters, or an AI input for recording. So, I know enough to be dangerous but I need input on what may be involved as far as where I might need to tap that output from. Simplicity would suggest wiring the switched jack to the headphone speaker wires so when plugged in, it would kill the headphone speakers. Sounds simple enough but, what would be the possible issues with the new jack output as far as voltages, impedances, levels, etc., as opposed to your normal headphone jack of say the THR10c. The THR10c headphone jack works fine as a line out to the aux in on my MAudio monitors, and actually sounds fantastic this way as it gives the amp a much bigger, fuller, sound. So what would be the potential risks of wiring this jack in the headphones. Could it damage the amplification circuit of the headphones. Would the signal to the headphone speakers be the same as what a headphone jack would put out. I'm thinking if it's just a matter of output level, you should be able to simply compensate thru the headphones volume controls and input level controls of what your plugging into. My Father-in-law is an electrical engineer who designs circuits for the military, so he can help in proper testing of any circuits that may be involved. I want to figure this out properly, but don't want to fry anything either. Any thoughts? Of course there will be picture candy if I do this. I've been here for a long time and have faith in the technical savy of our members here.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
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Squire classic vibe 60's
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Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
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Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

admin

#1
I figure the internal speakers are 4 ohms

add a line out from each internal speaker connection.
They MIGHT have a common ground -

but on the other hand many modern products employ a Class D amplifiers you may fry internal amp if you tie the left Speaker (-)  and the Right Speaker (-), to a common Ground 3.5mm TRS Jack 


1st DISCHARGE THE Waza AIR BATTERY  - leave them on for 2 days and let the battery drain

I recall there is a Gyro motion detector power switch,  = IF you have an old LP turntable, place the Waza AIR (powered ON) on the LP turntable running 33RPM for 1 day to drain the battery
   
Then disassemble and Post a gut pic and try to determine Power Amp chipset

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/tutorials/power-amp-adapter/


https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-many-guitars-so-little-time/875879-how-hard-might-add-line-output-amp-doesnt-have-one.html

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/282949/connecting-headphone-jack-to-amplifier-help


https://www.walmart.com/ip/Speaker-to-2-RCA-Line-Output-Converter-IN-OUT-High-Low/593850817


 

Mrchevy

Will try to get internal pictures tonight and see what we got under the hood. I wonder if the battery is hardwired or plug connector, the latter would be nice.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

Mrchevy

#3
Well I finally popped the hood. So this is whats inside the WAZA AIR headphones. While I'm sure it's possible to add an 1/8" output, the job would really need to be done by someone who knows what they're doing. The wires are REALLY small. I think someone who really knows electronics might be able to figure it out. I've done basic solid state work, but this is beyond what I want to try and figure out. Maybe the electronic guru's could figure it out, or at least determine if it might be possible from these pics. I tried to be as thorough as possible with good pictures for reference. One thing I CAN tell you is the battery is replaceable. It's more involved than just popping off a cover, but definitely doable by the DIY'er. The battery is stuck down in with probably double stick tape. Also you will need a very small precision Phillips screwdriver with a good tight fit in the screw heads. The screws are pretty tight but loosen up after the first couple of turns. Same way tightening them, they get snug for the last couple of turns but you'll know when they bottom out. I think the Headphones seem to be pretty well built, Plastic but hearty. Enjoy the pics. Please go here to see the pictures. they are high resolution and couldn't get them to post here.

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/boss-waza-air-headphones.2101745/page-47
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

admin

#4
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/boss-waza-air-headphones.2101745/page-47


Roland ESC2 DSP  = Same DSP as Boss GT-1 & KATANA





25L3233 = Boot FLASH IC

www.arrow.com/en/products/mx25l3233fm2i-08g/macronix-international


The ICs closest to the speaker wires
AK4558 32bit CODEC (108dB 216kHz 32-bit ΔΣ CODEC with PLL)
https://www.akm.com/global/en/products/audio/audio-codec/ak4558en/
https://www.akm.com/content/dam/documents/products/audio/audio-codec/ak4558en/ak4558en-en-datasheet.pdf


The other is IC labeled " AUU"

Plug that into the IC marking identifier with the appropriate SMT Package
Reveals this is a MAX9820ETB Amplifer IC
IC AMP CLASS AB STER 95MW 10TDFN 95mW @ 32 ohms
http://www.hotenda.com/marking-code/search/part/MAX9820ETB+.html

Datasheet

http://www.hotenda.com/product-item/linear-amplifiers-audio/MAX9820ETB+T/H2500958.html

Amplifier IC Headphones, 2-Channel (Stereo) Class AB 10-TDFN-EP (3x3)


https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/maxim-integrated/MAX9820ETB-T/MAX9820ETB-TCT-ND/2234722

https://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/MAX9820.pdf


I would leave the internal Speakers connected and just add a 3.5mm TRS External Line out jack as shown below



Other identifiable IC's

"BQE" = switching voltage regulator
http://www.hotenda.com/product-item/pmic-voltage-regulators-dc-dc-switching-regulators/TPS62400DRCT/H2757384.html


https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/tutorials/power-amp-adapter/

Mrchevy

So what your saying is it may be as simple as this?
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

Mrchevy

Actual chip is smaller than picture above. This would entail some micro soldering. I'm not sure I would try it myself, but my father-in-law could do it, and would have the proper iron to do it. Would this be the spot to tap for the jack, or would there be maybe a easier spot to tap from? Also, I would assume you would want to use a standard NON switched jack. Would a switched jack create a short when not being used? But then again, if it didn't kill the signal to the headphone speakers, would that put extra draw on the circuit and possibly fry it as it would be feeding the speakers And driving the line out signal?
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

admin

#7
Quote from: Mrchevy on May 03, 2020, 08:15:31 AM
Actual chip is smaller than picture above. This would entail some micro soldering. I'm not sure I would try it myself, but my father-in-law could do it, and would have the proper iron to do it. Would this be the spot to tap for the jack, or would there be maybe a easier spot to tap from? Also, I would assume you would want to use a standard NON switched jack. Would a switched jack create a short when not being used? But then again, if it didn't kill the signal to the headphone speakers, would that put extra draw on the circuit and possibly fry it as it would be feeding the speakers And driving the line out signal?

Just solder across  the left & right Speakers wires where they are soldered to the PCB ( use ohm meter to determine which wires are which)

I'd keep the Speaker in the circuit , add a small non switched  2.5mm TRS jack, then feed an external 2.5mm TRS to 3.5mm TRS adapter cable that feeds the 3.5mm TRS STEREO INPUT on this passive DI BOX


Its essentially accomplishing this circuit here  ( x 2 for stereo)


Mrchevy

#8
Is a DI box needed? Would an audio interface not do basically the same thing. Also, would not the 1/8" jack still need a ground to the board somewhere, like where the speaker ground is. In your post you talked about 2.5mm and 3.5mm, is the 2.5mm reference a typo actually meaning 3.5mm? The Rolls db24 specs show 3.5mm TRS input. Ok, after going back and re-reading your post, I assume what you meant was to use a 2.5mm TRS jack in the headphones for reasons of room constraints, yes? Id the DI box doing something safety wise for the Waza Air circuitry. Do you not use a ground for the 2.5mm jack in the headphones and the DI box handles the grounding of the output from the headphones so as not to fry the headphone circuits. Just trying to understand the why's and whatnots.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

admin

#9
No Typos - the common 2.5mm Stereo TRS jack would be an easier internal fit inside the Waza Air ( its smaller than a 3.5mm TRS jack

the MAX9820ETB Amplifer IC has a common Ground
Final Output Wire connections are all here on this board


AFTER you disconnect the Battery

need an ohm meter to verify which wire to connect the TRS jack
Measure direct from each Speaker with ohm meter on the "0" ohms scale to each wire here:
Identify Speaker Left (+) = TIP
Identify Speaker RIGHT (+) = RING
Identify Speaker LEFT / RIGHT Common Ground (-) = Sleeve



Easier to solder new 2.5mm Stereo TRS jack to the Wires soldered on the PCB on the Left ,and you can determine which are the Left Speaker (+)  & Right Speaker (+) connections there, and use a common Ground to the TRS jack Shield

Datasheet
http://www.hotenda.com/product-item/linear-amplifiers-audio/MAX9820ETB+T/H2500958.html

Schematic






a DIY'er could use this as the basis for 2.5mm Stereo TRS jack



Then use a 2.5mm to 3.5mm TRS cable
I prefer the galvanic isolation a passive DI box provides (like the Rolls DB24)  - it adds a margin of safety for the $400 Waza Air and its internal power Amp IC &  eliminates problems from any DC Offset on the input stage found on many budget Audio interfaces


Or Radial Stagebug


Gently used $53
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373018527870

Mrchevy

Just thought I'd post a quick update. I reviewed pictures, and discussions with my Father in law over Mothers day dinner, and came up with a general game plan for the mod. We haven't been able to get together yet to do the mod due to his schedule on a circuit design deadline, so hopefully soon.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

Pi3141

#11
I'm looking forward to see the mod and appreciate the very competent conversation.
Whenever I visit this forum, I always learn something technically interesting  :)

EDIT: Just a thought: I see wires coming from the existing jack on the headphones. Wouldn't it be nice to use the existing jack as an output? It would require a switch to be still able to select between "jack for paring the transmitter" and "output jack".

admin

#12
Quote from: Pi3141 on May 19, 2020, 12:54:46 PM
I'm looking forward to see the mod and appreciate the very competent conversation.
Whenever I visit this forum, I always learn something technically interesting  :)

EDIT: Just a thought: I see wires coming from the existing jack on the headphones. Wouldn't it be nice to use the existing jack as an output? It would require a switch to be still able to select between "jack for paring the transmitter" and "output jack".
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/WAZA-AIR_eng04_W.pdf
Waza AIR is wireless connection to the dedicated Boss Guitar Out Transmitter unit ( same as supplied to Katana AIR )
It has a pairing / Charge port for the separate Guitar transmitter  - which when in use transmits mono audio only from a guitar output jack


only connections on Waza Air Headphones  are the:
*  1/4" Transmitter Charging port,   
* micro USB port for recharging the internal battery

* and a hidden micro USB port in one of the ear areas for possible firmware updates

There is no 3.5mm TRS connector anywhere 


Mrchevy

#13
 ;D There is now. We got together today and did all our continuity checks and measurements. We found the points to connect the jack to and where the best place to locate and mount the jack. The surgery went well and all functions are up and running. I used my THR10c aux in for the first run test and works great. When I got home I plugged into my mixer and out to my Alto T10 powered monitors and it rocks. I'm getting ready to do the ultimate test of what most seem to be mainly interested in doing with these, recording. I'm going to record some tracks with it and then I will be putting together a photo tutorial with sound samples. Since photos and MP3's can be posted directly to this site, I will post the official tutorial here. We've had a lot of discussion on this mod at the Gear Page also, but you have to use cloud services to post pictures and, well, we all know what happened with photo bucket. So in the interest of prosperity, the tutorials home will be the VGuitar forums. I should have it up in a day or two.......don't touch that dial folks ;)

Incidentally, you can hear the gyro panning thru the speaker system when you turn the headphones but guess what, when the headphones are sitting on the desk, there's no drift. Hmmm imagine that. So you can record using any AMBIENT setting without the drift. Honestly, I didn't expect it would drift if sitting on the desk.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

gumtown

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

admin

#15
Quote from: Mrchevy on May 19, 2020, 06:14:12 PM
;D There is now. We got together today and did all our continuity checks and measurements. We found the points to connect the jack to and where the best place to locate and mount the jack. The surgery went well and all functions are up and running. I used my THR10c aux in for the first run test and works great. When I got home I plugged into my mixer and out to my Alto T10 powered monitors and it rocks. I'm getting ready to do the ultimate test of what most seem to be mainly interested in doing with these, recording. I'm going to record some tracks with it and then I will be putting together a photo tutorial with sound samples. Since photos and MP3's can be posted directly to this site, I will post the official tutorial here. We've had a lot of discussion on this mod at the Gear Page also, but you have to use cloud services to post pictures and, well, we all know what happened with photo bucket. So in the interest of prosperity, the tutorials home will be the VGuitar forums. I should have it up in a day or two.......don't touch that dial folks ;)

Incidentally, you can hear the gyro panning thru the speaker system when you turn the headphones but guess what, when the headphones are sitting on the desk, there's no drift. Hmmm imagine that. So you can record using any AMBIENT setting without the drift. Honestly, I didn't expect it would drift if sitting on the desk.

Download the PDF plans and MP-3 audio demo results here
DIY - Waza AIR  1/8" TRS Stereo Recording output mod
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xpmPW0oOEx_f0X7wBOXKn2bNAFlMKAsz

QuoteIncidentally, you can hear the gyro panning thru the speaker system when you turn the headphones but guess what, when the headphones are sitting on the desk, there's no drift. Hmmm imagine that. So you can record using any AMBIENT setting without the drift. Honestly, I didn't expect it would drift if sitting on the desk.

I could see a step during the Waza AIR recording process of slightly moving and  / or rotating the Waza Air headphone to alter the tone and find the "sweet spot" for best tone in the mix of the tune during recording

Congratulations on making this Waza Air mod

Mrchevy

#16
Audio sample recording from Waza Air output jack.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

admin

#17
Quote from: Mrchevy on May 20, 2020, 05:16:53 PM
Sorry guys, couldn't get it to load the tutorial, to big and don't know how to create a PDF. I was able to post it here. Enjoy
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/boss-waza-air-headphones.2101745/page-49#post-30565902
Download the PDF plans and MP-3 audio demo results here
DIY - Waza AIR  1/8" TRS Stereo Recording output mod
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xpmPW0oOEx_f0X7wBOXKn2bNAFlMKAsz

--

MrChevy wrote>
---------------------

Ok guys, the moment you've all been waiting for, the mod tutorial for an output jack on the Waza Air headphones. Boss take note!!! So first some notes and comments. First and foremost, many thanks to my Father in law for his skills and know how, and Steve (Elantric), for input and advice.

DISCLAIMER, If you F this up, I aint payin for it. Do it at YOUR OWN RISK! After all is said and done, this is a pretty simple and strait forward mod BUT, this requires higher end soldering skills and precision measurements. there is very little room for locating the jack and solder points are VERY small. My Father in law designs and builds circuit boards for a living so was well equipped with the tools and technique to do it. I'm a novice and very capable of doing things like guitar electronics but I would be hesitant to try the soldering myself. And of course, this WILL void your warranty. I managed to find a 3.5mm stereo jack that would fit, here locally at Sky Craft Electronics (Orlando Fl.) but as Steve said, it would be an easier install, space wise, to use a 2.5mm jack instead. Body length of jack cannot be more than 9mm and solder points must be on the end or side. A barrel jack would probably be best. So, if you got the skill or are one who just ignores warnings, lets get started.

1. Remove magnetic ear pad on right side phone (side with volume and transmitter jack). Locate 4 screws as marked and remove. Lift speaker cover and lay to the right, be careful, the speaker wires are on the right side and very small.


Note terminal locations where connections will be made from 3.5mm stereo jack, and optimal jack location. When wearing headphones, the output jack will be on the right side facing forward.

Here, the ORANGE circle represents the area of the speaker bezel. Note the two RED circles, these are the spots with clearance issues. The jack case must clear the speaker bezel when the cover is reinstalled and should have about 2mm of clearance on the screw post. This particular jack, the case length is 9mm. Any longer and the speaker bezel will hit the jack and the cover will not sit down flush on the phone case. I suspect if you use a 2.5mm jack it would be a touch more forgiving and not likely an issue (but that would be to easy ;)


Next, we drill the hole for the jack. These measurements are crucial for inside clearances. If you decide to use a 2.5mm jack, this hole location will be the same, but you will just have a touch more clearance inside with the slightly smaller case of the 2.5mm jack. We used a pen drill and drilled by hand rather than a power drill. Start with a pilot hole about 1/8" and progress in size once or twice to a final size of 6.5mm or 1/4" hole. If you use a power drill, hold everything solid so it doesn't grab. If it pulls in and nicks the circuit board, your screwed. SLOW and EASY!!!


The 3.5mm jack


My Father in law the surgeon at work


The jack installed and soldered in



The cover back on, nice and flush


AND the finished install, ready to rock!




Final thoughts and comments. How does it sound? It sound pretty good going into my THR10c aux in. Better into a mixer with two 10" powered PA monitors (Alto TS110a's). Between the headphones volume control, the line level input controls, there is no distortion so the headphone jack output is good and not over driving the signal. The input levels into my Scarlett 2i2 are very manageable and didn't end up needing an attenuator. So how practical is this mod? Well, I love tinkering with things and had the resources to do it without much risk (thanks Pops). If your comfortable at this level of electronics work and want another pretty decent modeling source, then why not. Cost was less than $2 for the jack and took a couple of hours, including tracing and testing circuits. So I guess you all want to know how it records. Well, first, the patches that you make in the headphones are gonna probably need to be tweaked a little for obvious reasons, but will translate well. Everything in this track is recorded directly from the Waza Air output jack, strait into the 2i2 and into Reaper. No processing. All but the last clip is a Les Paul. The last clip is my Strat with an acoustic guitar patch made in the Waza Air. This last patch seems to sound better with a single coil pickup. Enjoy
* waza air recording test(1).mp3
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28478.0;attach=21033

Mrchevy

Thanks Steve for converting this over to PDF. I don't have or use software to create PDF's so I never learned it but have software to read them. You da man!
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

Elantric

#19
Quote from: Mrchevy on May 20, 2020, 07:47:17 PM
Thanks Steve for converting this over to PDF. I don't have or use software to create PDF's so I never learned it but have software to read them. You da man!

Thanks to you and your Father in Law for making this happen and posting the results!

Good Job!
DIY - Waza AIR  1/8" TRS Stereo Recording output mod
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xpmPW0oOEx_f0X7wBOXKn2bNAFlMKAsz

gumtown

Very well done, and thanks for sharing !!  :)
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Mrchevy

#21
Steve, I made 1 edit on picture #2 with the yellow text boxes. The edit was to indicate the tip, ring, sleeve connection for the jack. I have loaded it to my Imgur  account. Can we swap out the picture in the PDF tutorial? and what do you need from me, or will this work. Also, is it possible to make the tutorial a sticky in the Waza Air section
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

Pi3141

Quote from: admin on May 19, 2020, 01:05:46 PM
...
only connections on Waza Air Headphones  are the:
*  1/4" Transmitter Charging port,   
* micro USB port for recharging the internal battery

* and a hidden micro USB port in one of the ear areas for possible firmware updates

There is no 3.5mm TRS connector anywhere

I actually suggested to use the 1/4" jack as an output. From the photos it seems to be a TRS jack. There are 3 cables running from it to a multi-connector. But doing so it would require at least an additional switch so I guess it is more reasonable to go for an additional jack instead.

admin

#23
Quote from: Pi3141 on May 22, 2020, 12:07:30 PM
I actually suggested to use the 1/4" jack as an output. From the photos it seems to be a TRS jack. There are 3 cables running from it to a multi-connector. But doing so it would require at least an additional switch so I guess it is more reasonable to go for an additional jack instead.

The 1/4 jack is for" Pairing " the Transmitter to the Waza AIR Headphones

Would require a DPDT switch to convert it into a TRS Audio Output - and a bit more work and debug

Mrchevy

The 1/4" jack on the headphones is for pairing only. You can not charge the transmitter with that jack. In fact, if you leave the transmitter plugged in to store it, it will eventually drain the transmitter battery. The headphones and transmitter both have a USB port and that is how they are charged. Seems like they could work it out to pair, charge, and output from that jack. Time will tell.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need