killer tones from old amps!

Started by hsuru4u, January 07, 2019, 07:20:56 PM

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OK, Kemper is 1 exception and maybe AXE-FX 3 an other. Dedicated fast processors with their own OS and sophisticated programming can work as replacement for the "real thing", BUT:

You need powered speakers or other PA for these processors, so it will be expensive, total costs: some 2500 to 3500 dollars or euros. If I would be gigging with a band again, I would go this way. Yes, these 2 units can sound like SRV or Larry Carlton, but they are to pricey for me. I have heard many demos of cheaper units, those multi-fx amp modellers for som 1000 dollar or euros, or even cheaper. They all do not sound right for me.

Conclusion: my Hor Rod Deluxe for 450 euros wins the price-value-relation competition and it is complete, plug and play. The clean sound is legendary and the crunch/lead channel sounds also very good for me. I can replicate 1000 classic rock tones with it. No memory card needed, my brain is enough.


LOL This thread is drifting towards the Mac vs PC debate. You know which is better? The one that gets you the results youre after. Now the real question is " Which is the best DAW out there?" ( And thats how the fight started..... )


Quote from: chrish on January 08, 2019, 10:37:11 PM
"The soft-clipping and voltage peculiarities of tube amplification have been nailed by solid-state designers for over 30 years. There's really no reason to choose one over the other, so long as it's quality equipment. (Doubters were discredited a couple of decades ago in blind tests where they failed to tell the difference--so it's all opinion at this point.) "

Sad to see so much repeated misinformation there. The real picture is just too inconvenient for most to accept.
For example:
A push-pull power amplifier, such as that in just about every high power valve (tube) guitar amplifier, when driven into clipping, cancels out all even order harmonics and produces only odd.
If you want only even harmonics in the distortion, you need to overdrive the preamp valves, not the power stage.
Any power amplifier with significant negative feedback, so most high power valve (tube) amps excepting ac30 type designs, when driven into clipping, clip hard, like a square wave.
If you want soft clipping, try a Tubescreamer. That circuit design gives very soft clipping at low to medium drive settings.
Tonelab, VG99, Axon AX100, EDP, Repeater
Godin, PRS, Crafter and Roland guitars
Center Point Stereo Spacestation V3



Not that I want to get into an argument, because as said before this is the friendliest forum could mpared to all I've encountered. But most of us started with valve amps as well as transistor ditto well before master volume and " preamp gain " as well as attunators /power soaks and the amps back then where almost all impossible to get real heavy distortion from.
They didn't crash and burn with distortion even at eleven.
A great clean / half clean sounds yes and dist with a fuzz box. That worked fine with transistors as well.
As with most things we've "learned" what a guitar amp /dist should sound like.
Not that it's any better. A guitar amp sounds really bad amplifying most anything else
( even guitar ) but we accept the " norm "
In the 80-90ths hardly anyone liked digital distortion anymore than the guitarist and engineers liked the tube distortion at first. And hardly anyone expected digital distortion  to be accepted as nice , but here we are today.
My point being , as the old Viking saying.
The taste is like a butt. Divided !
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch


Quote from: Brak(E)man on January 09, 2019, 01:01:15 PMA guitar amp sounds really bad amplifying most anything else
but we accept the " norm "


Amplification recommendations for DSP Guitar Modeling systems


Quote from: GeePeeAxe on January 09, 2019, 04:50:50 AM

Conclusion: my Hor Rod Deluxe for 450 euros wins the price-value-relation competition and it is complete, plug and play. The clean sound is legendary and the crunch/lead channel sounds also very good for me. I can replicate 1000 classic rock tones with it. No memory card needed, my brain is enough.

As I see it a modeller MFX gets anywhere from 90 to 100% of tube amp tones, but a tube amp only does 10% of modeller MFX tones.

It CAN get to 100% but at what cost? And you'd be carrying a truckload of boutique pedals.

It's a complex equation. Tube amps are popular for a reason, but so are modeller MFX units.

You need what you need.

You pays your money and takes your choice...


Smash: "a tube amp only does 10% of modeller MFX tones"

Really? Do you mean: tones - or tons of effects?

When I got older than 35 years, I found that music loaded with tons ef effects is annoying me. Well played music that is concentrated on the expression of human feelings and moods does not need many effects. I abandoned later my multi FX units and use now only 2 pedals with 1 amp and 3 pedals with the other tube amp.

Jo Bonamassa, Niel Young and many other famous players go directly into the amp, maybe 1 or 2 boosters in front and some delay and modulation in the fx loop. If I ever buy a MFX unit again, I will use it with the 4 cable or 7 cable method without the amp modelling features. Will always keep at least 2 tube amps at home.


Steve, is there a way I can block this thread? Seeing this stuff in 'Recent Threads' has become eye-rollingly annoying. Walks and quacks like trolling.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker


Shrug - killer tones from old amps?  I used my JC-120 for years as a "portable PA system" to amplify my tube and solid state gear so I could play live.  Still do it.
My music projects online at

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.


Quote from: hsuru4u on January 08, 2019, 09:49:48 AM
I sold my vg99(regret) and it was cool.

i look upon you all . . . . still my guitar gently weeps

Roland VG-99 demo by Bill Ruppert 2008 (all in the box)


Ive been performing a lot these past two years with a rock trio + singer  - last time I performed this amount of live gigs was 1979. The band is old school, back line - mic the kick drum , mic the guitar amp , feed a DI from Bass to PA with vocals. Zero desire for silent stage, zero desire for IN Ear Monitors. Zero desire to spend time  off hours recharging internal batteries. I can cover all the tones I need using my guitar skills and  a small pedal board and 63 Fender Tube Reverb feeding a 20 watt tube amp - Artist Tweedtone 20R ( clone of a Fender Blues Junior) - use as sidefill monitor mic'ed to PA with a larger venue house PA.
We added a QSC KS112 subwoofer to our 1200watt Carvin PA with passive  Yamaha FOH PA speakers - and our live sound is great and dynamic.

When I see similar bands with a Helix or Fractal feeding the PA, the younger (age 25-45) guitarists tend to leave their DSP guitar Modeler on the same EVH/Satriani tone all night, for every song -  and to my ears its extremely fatiguing and one dimensional and sounds flat wrong playing motown/james brown/Nokie Edwards ( The Ventures) songs with a Steve Vai tone. But use the gear that works for you.