Katana Artist - How to use with FC-300 MIDI Foot Controller?

Started by Pat the Brat, February 11, 2018, 05:46:13 PM

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Pat the Brat

Hi to all,

i owned a FC-300 for several years and used probably only 5% of it's potential controlling my Guitar Rig software in my computer to track and rehearse.

Now, i bought the Katana 1x12 100w (which i expect to replace by the Katana Artist 100w as soon as it released in Canada because the Artist model have a Midi In that the actual model don't have) but i am curious as to what control i gain over it using the FC-300 for live shows.

I am not so familiar with midi, but am able to work with instructions.

Here's what i expect to do when i will have the FC-300 hooked to the Midi in of the Katana Artist;

1- Change Bank (A-B) and Amps Channels (1 to 8)

2- Activate-Desactivate the FX (Booster-Mod / Delay-FX / Reverb) on any selected channels

3- Having Master Volume & Wah assign to Expression Pedals no matter the channel selected (probably to be assign in every channels of the
    Katana via Boss Tune Studio)

Any input will be appreciated before i either invest more money in swapping the amplifier for the Artist Model or to buy the MIDX20 (midi-to-usb) which i have read about on this forum.

Thanx in advance,

Pat The Brat

gumtown

The MIDX-20 will give you better options,
the Katana midi in, on it's own, has very limited features.
Then you can use the MIDX-20 on either Katana.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Pat the Brat

Hi Gumtown,

thank you for the reply.

Could you give me more detail as to what i would be limited to via the Midi in?

And if the 3 pobjectives i hope to achieve would be possible with the MIDX20?

much appreciated!


Smash

With midx20 you can control any parameter using FC300 in CC mode - program whatever CCs you like to the pedals.

Asle on here uses katana head with fc300 and midx20 so he's your man to explain but from a facebook chat its extremely versatile

CodeSmart

Q1- Change Bank (A-B) and Amps Channels ( 1 to 8 )
Send PC#0-7 to the MIDX-20
If you instead need to change patch using a CC#, you can program a Filter in the MIDX-20 that will translate a given CC# to PC#

Q2- Activate-Desactivate the FX (Booster-Mod / Delay-FX / Reverb) on any selected channels




BOOSTER/MOD on/offCC#16 (0=off, 127=on)
DELAY/FX on/offCC#17 (0=off, 127=on)
REVERB/DELAY2 on/offCC#18 (0=off, 127=on)

or individually (MIDX-20 special):







BOOSTER on/offCC#48 (0=off, 127=on)
MOD on/offCC#49 (0=off, 127=on)
DELAY on/off CC#78 (0=off, 127=on)
FX on/offCC#79 (0=off, 127=on)
REVERB on/offCC#58 (0=off, 127=on)
DELAY2 on/offCC#59 (0=off, 127=on


Q3- Having Master Volume & Wah assign to Expression Pedals no matter the channel selected (probably to be assign in every channels of the
    Katana via Boss Tune Studio)






GLOBAL VOLCC#7 (0-127)
MOD WHA PEDALCC#62 (0-127)
FX WHA PEDALCC#92 (0-127)
Note: For the Wha pedal there's a filter in the MIDX-20 that is nice to use.
The last foot toe down part of the expression pedal will turn wha on/off while it operates normal between heel and "almost-toe".
It works almost like there's a hardware on/off switch in your pedal.

The patch need to be setup with MOD=Pedal Wha (either by BTS or sending CC#60 14 to MIDX-20).

To activate this you need to program the MIDX-20 using the PC Assistant software:
1. In the PC-Assistant goto to tab Translations.
2. In the section CC# Translations/Operations:
3. Set Point of operation = MIDI IN
4. Set "From Ch" = 1
5. Set "From CC#" = 62
6. Set To "CC#" = 49
7. Set "Operation" = "EXP TOE TOGGLE (To CC)"
What will happen now is when the MIDX sees CC#62 incoming at "MIDI IN" it will forward the values if between 0-120.
If greater it will instead send CC# 49= 0 or 127 (in a toggling fashion).
Can also be done with FX section but then it's different CC# numbers.

But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Pat the Brat

Thank you guys for this great and quick reply.

Gumtown, Elantric, Smash and Codesmart, i really aprecciate your help and input to solve my dilemma.

i will order the MIDX today and keep you posted about how i get my rig operationnal.

Regards,

Pat the Brat

Hello gentlemen (and sorry in advance for the long post)

Happy to report that i didn't replaced my Katana 112 by an Artist model, i ordered and received my MIDX20 (Merci beaucoup Robert for such great product!!) and now got control over the amp from my FC-300 !!

I am not so experienced with MIDI, but so far in PC mode (on the FC300), i have direct access to the 8 channels of the amp including the "Panel" channel using the 9 footswitch.

i have assign CTL1 to MOD on/off, CTL2 to DELAY1, EXP switch1 to Boost, EXPpedal1 for GLOBAL VOLUME,
EXPswitch2 to FX on/off, EXPpedal2 for FX. (only the REVERB and DELAY2 of the amp must be set in BTS on all channels and i shall live with it).

Problems unsolved as of now ;
The GLOBAL VOLUME; (EXP pedal1 is not consistent control wise, when completely closed, some volume still bleed sometimes, need 2-3 pedal actions before going to maximum....i did the expression pedal adjustment procedure proposed in the FC300 manual with no luck.

The EXP switch2 is switching the WAH on/off set in the FX section of the BTS, but i couldn't get the EXP pedal2 to control the WAH 'modulation'.

I didn't used the MIDX filter procedure you explained me Codesmart but i will get there. The physical switch of the expression pedal on The FC300 always been a natural option for WAH on/off in the past (controlling 'Guitar Rig' in 'Mainstage').

I didn't tried the CC mode much yet, but the try i had weren't so successful as there is definitely something i don't understand. more forum reading will be necessary  ;)

But for now, in PC mode i get more control that i could ever dreamed of between my katana 112 and my FC300.

So the answer to my initial question (Katana Artist  - How to use with FC-300 MIDI Foot Controller?)
is definitely the MIDX20.

Pat the Brat

Hi,

After further troubleshout of the previous unsolved problems, here's where my limited knowledge of MIDI brought me to so far;

In CC Mode, i have assigned CC# on the FC300 to match the amp parameters needed (so no MIDX20 translation needed i thought, just work as a bridge) but nothing is happening. 

In PC Mode, all PC change happen and most of the FX On/Off i control with cc# programed to FC 300 and translated with MIDX20, but i still couldn't get my expression pedal 2 to control the modulation of the Wah FX although i can control the on/off via the expression switch, no problem.

the Global Volume (Exp. Pedal 1) goes up/down in steps instead of a smooth ramp.
Also, the volume dont go completely to zero at heel position nor goes up completely until i have actioned the pedal 2-3 times. Soundwise, it's like the "travelling" of the exp. pedals is too rapid for the data flow to be transmitted consistently...


Here's my config when i got it partialy working in PC Mode;

FC-300 (PC Mode);       /---------MIDX-20----------\         Boss Katana Parameters;


CTL1;    --------------->  CC#80   to   (CC#49)  <-----------  MOD ON/OFF

CTL2;    --------------->  CC#81   to   (CC#78)   <----------   DELAY ON/OFF 

EXP.Switch1;   ---------->   CC#82   to   (CC#16)   <----------   BOOSTER ON/OFF

EXP.Pedal1;   ----------->   CC#7   to   (CC#7)     <---------- GLOBAL VOLUME (not good)

EXP.Switch2;   --------->    CC#1   to   (CC#79)    <---------- FX ON/OFF

EXP.Pedal2;   ---------->   CC#83   to   (CC#92)   <----------   WAH PEDAL (not working)


There is definitely something i miss, but can't seem to work it out.
Any advice?

CodeSmart

To debug and isolate the problem, I would connect the FC300 to a PC using a USB-to-MIDI cable and analyze what it transmitts.
The Bome SendSX software is a free and great tool.

https://www.bome.com/products/sendsx

It shows everything in Hex so a Hex to Dec conversion calculator is convenient.
(As I don't speak hex fluently I use the Windows calculator in "programmers" mode)

The expression pedals should smoothly deliver CC# messages with value in the range of 00h - 7Fh (0d-127d)
Volume:
B0 07 <00> ... B0 07 <7F>

Wha:
B0 53 <00> ... B0 53 <7F>    (53h hex=83d decimal, B0h is the CC transmission command if using channel 0)

Let's take it from there and see what you see  :)


But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Pat the Brat

Thank you CodeSmart!!

I attached both Volume and Wah SendFX files.
The only difference i see, is that it doesn't start from "<00>" but rather from "<02>.

Your patience is greatly appreciated!
I never been that deep under the midi hood ; )



CodeSmart

The data in your file looks ok. The 02 instead of 00 should be very close to muted for the volume.

To replicate your setup I used two MIDX running firmware V2.7 released 2018-02-12
http://www.primovasound.com/midx_20_page2.html

* My MIDX-20 were in "RED" mode.
* I connected the KATANA to LWR USB (because it's slightly faster)

FC300 Emulator:
To the first I connected two EV-5 to the CTRL1 and CTRL2 jacks. I programmed the MIDX to send CC#7 for one pedal and CC#83 on the other just like your FC300

Your MIDX emulator:
Then I connected MIDI OUT to MIDI IN on the second MIDX (i.e. your MIDX) with setup showed below.
(Note: I pressed button "MIDX-20 Reset" in PC-Assistant to clear any previous settings before doing this setup)



I made sure that the Katana FX we set to PEDAL WAH:



In my case both WAH and VOLUME worked and behaved great, so I can't figure out what is your problem :P

Points of interest:
1. Are you also running MIDX 2.7?
2. If you enable MIDI THRU in MIDX you would be able to record the MIDI stream with Bome SendSX from MIDI OUT.
3. If you temporarily enable "Keep original data" for CC#83 you would be able record both incoming (83) and outgoing (92), knowing that  83 will control Dir. Mix of Delay in Katana (according to my MIDX-20 Katana MIDI map).
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

CodeSmart

Ooops, it appears the UPR USB does not work as intended in this case. When I plug the KATANA to UPR the scenario is not working.
So...Make sure you are using the LWR USB.
I will investigate this sometime during the week.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Pat the Brat

Indeed!
when connected to the LWR USB port, the expression pedal now affect the wah-wah fx, but the ramp are not smooth.
(same problem as described for the volume on exp. pedal 1).

I confirm the v2.7 for the pc assistant and MIDX in "RED" Mode.
"Keep original data" is not selected anywhere in the MIDX20.

Would it be a symptom if i would have an intermittent midi cables between my FC300 and the MIDX20?


Thank you again for your help!

CodeSmart

I think should do the follow recordings in Bome:
1. Rock Volume pedal toe-heel at 2Hz (two times a second) from FC directly to PC and count number of lines (samples) between 02-7F
2. Do same thing again and record what gets out of MIDX MIDI out (merge=on).

If the number of samples is roughly the same there's nothing lost in the MIDX translation.

I don't experience this problem with EV-5.

Regarding UPR issue I think it's a timing issue with Katana initialization when code is running on the less loaded secondary controller. Will be fixed.


But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

mapletop

wow i was thinking of useing the fc300 with my artist katana but lord it sounds harder to program them playing the guitar.i might just stay with the ga-fc pedal which i really dont care for

Pat the Brat

#16
Hi guys,

i though about giving a bit of feedback on my set up.

First, i owned my FC-300 since somewhere before 2010. Must say that i never been familiar with MIDI prog and by reading online and with the help i had here above, throughout the years i got to use this unit with GuitarRig in my computer, with my KATANA (KTN-100) as mentioned above and yesterday i went another extra mile with it.

Through googling, trial & errors and lot of patience, i got to program patches that recall any of the 9 presets on my Katana (Panel + 8 presets), assign CC# command to CTL1, CTL2, Exp. Pedal & switch #1 and Exp. Pedal & switch #2 to control Katana FX along with recalling presets on my Strymon TimeLine and BigSky pedals.

!!! Special thanks to you CodeSmart for the MIDX-20 unit !!!

Now i have complete patches at the recall of a button that parameter my whole rig. I have to admit, it seem intimidating at first, but once i got the minimal understanding of how to program the patch in FC-300 to go where i wanted, it just convinced my that this FC-300 is one of the most versatile piece of gear i ever owned.

Again, thank you for the help above!