Author Topic: GP-10 - Possible Fix--Warbles  (Read 453 times)

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Offline sec6

GP-10 - Possible Fix--Warbles
« on: October 12, 2017, 10:00:29 AM »
After purchasing an ATG-1, GI-20, and an RME aio soundcard (rme only provided 2 ms advantage over the GP-10) to duplicate the functionality of the GP-10, I decided I didn't need $1200 worth of gear to do what the GP-10 does quite well on its own so I sold it all without taking a loss and re-purchased a GP-10. But as I was quite used to external processing I decided to make an init file that has EVERYTHING turned off except for the alt-tuning and guitar modeling.  All 99 patches were replaced with this init file.  So, I use it solely for alt-tuning and guitar models and use other software for effects and amp modeling in my DAW. I created several alt-tuning patches with 335, nylon string, acoustics, sitar, fretless, etc.  I alt-tuned these +3, +7, -7, -5 with octave and fifth doubles.  Tested both my guitars, Les Paul DC with internal kit, and Ibanez RG420 GK, and I have absolutely no warbles (except for harmonics).  I am not sure the cause of the warble-free conditions (maybe it is the different GP-10). I could always force a warble with a C add 2 open chord, but cannot get it to warble under these conditions.  Attached is a live set with 99 init patches if you want to test. Be sure to backup your patches before overwriting with the 99 init patches. 
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 06:07:39 PM by admsustainiac »
Gibson ES-335, Gibson Les Paul DC Standard (GK Kit), GP-10, SY-300

Offline Majiken

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Re: GP-10 - Possible Fix--Warbles
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2017, 06:21:50 PM »
This looks quite interesting! Please help me be sure I understand correctly: can you then add effects to the patches, or are you limited to alt. tunings & models (like the ATG)?
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

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Offline admsustainiac

Re: GP-10 - Possible Fix--Warbles
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2017, 06:35:49 PM »
This looks quite interesting! Please help me be sure I understand correctly: can you then add effects to the patches, or are you limited to alt. tunings & models (like the ATG)?

DSP Alt Tuning has been available since the 1995 VG-8

All these accomplish DSP Alt Tuning:

VG-8

VG-88

Variax 500

Variax 700

VG-99

Tyler Variax

GR-55

GP-10

ATG-1 


The following allow you to build a DSP Alt Tuning patch with effects


VG-8

VG-88

VG-99

GR-55

GP-10

Here are dedicated DSP Alt Tuning patch areas  here

GR-55
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=77.0

VG-99
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=32.0

« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 06:39:42 PM by admsustainiac »

Online Rhcole

Re: GP-10 - Possible Fix--Warbles
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2017, 12:29:16 AM »
Thanks for this, I'll give it a try. The GP-10 warbles have reduced my use of it significantly. Have no idea why the FX etc. produce the warbles, though...  ::)

Offline Majiken

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Re: GP-10 - Possible Fix--Warbles
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2017, 03:18:28 AM »
DSP Alt Tuning has been available since the 1995 VG-8

All these accomplish DSP Alt Tuning:

VG-8

VG-88

Variax 500

Variax 700

VG-99

Tyler Variax

GR-55

GP-10

ATG-1 


The following allow you to build a DSP Alt Tuning patch with effects


VG-8

VG-88

VG-99

GR-55

GP-10

Here are dedicated DSP Alt Tuning patch areas  here

GR-55
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=77.0

VG-99
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=32.0



Steve, that wasn't my question- I have or had several pieces of the equipment over many years now, and use up to 6 tunings in the course of a normal gig.  What I want to know is, can you take a patch with the "init" setting, then add amp and FX to taste, or not?  If so, that would be close to perfect!  If not, you would in effect be turning a GP10 into an ATG-1 with a noticeably smaller footprint, which also has merit. Will try it out in a couple of days, just looking to see if the answer is already available to save testing time.
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Offline admsustainiac

Re: GP-10 - Possible Fix--Warbles
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2017, 09:06:49 AM »
Steve, that wasn't my question- I have or had several pieces of the equipment over many years now, and use up to 6 tunings in the course of a normal gig.  What I want to know is, can you take a patch with the "init" setting, then add amp and FX to taste, or not?  If so, that would be close to perfect!  If not, you would in effect be turning a GP10 into an ATG-1 with a noticeably smaller footprint, which also has merit. Will try it out in a couple of days, just looking to see if the answer is already available to save testing time.


Many use these boxes like a "Floor Variax"  - and use a setting that is transparent - no Amp sim just like SEC6 above
Quote
After purchasing an ATG-1, GI-20, and an RME aio soundcard (rme only provided 2 ms advantage over the GP-10) to duplicate the functionality of the GP-10, I decided I didn't need $1200 worth of gear to do what the GP-10 does quite well on its own so I sold it all without taking a loss and re-purchased a GP-10. But as I was quite used to external processing I decided to make an init file that has EVERYTHING turned off except for the alt-tuning and guitar modeling.  All 99 patches were replaced with this init file.  So, I use it solely for alt-tuning and guitar models and use other software for effects and amp modeling in my DAW.


Merman93 uses his GP-10 as Guitar Modeler / Alt Tuning only to feed his Kemper



http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11506.msg85389#msg85389
Quote
I am so happy with the improvements in noise floor that Elantric elaborated on in his posts.

I have integrated my GP-10 into my system at the front end with an A/B, running into my Ground Control Loop Switching System, allowing use of all my normal effects etc. then on to Kemper and 2 Tech 21 Power Engines. See pic.(grrrr i wish I could figure why it won't post correctly,...sorry, at least if you click the pic it opens up correctly).

My girlfriend is sooo pissed off at me as I told her I would be up in recording loft all weekend tweaking the GP-10,... I am THAT impressed with it !!!
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 11:56:13 AM by admsustainiac »

Offline admsustainiac

Re: GP-10 - Possible Fix--Warbles
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2017, 09:49:55 AM »
Thanks for this, I'll give it a try. The GP-10 warbles have reduced my use of it significantly. Have no idea why the FX etc. produce the warbles, though...  ::)
What was your guitar type? and GK PU type?
 
This "GP-10 Alt tuning Warble issue  varies from user to user and guitar type  - Myself I use my GP-10 a lot, and never have warble issues at the gig with alt tunings -  using a Godin xtSA or Tyler JTV-69 with GK-3

Thats true for others as well
Quote
After purchasing an ATG-1, GI-20, and an RME aio soundcard (rme only provided 2 ms advantage over the GP-10) to duplicate the functionality of the GP-10, I decided I didn't need $1200 worth of gear to do what the GP-10 does quite well on its own so I sold it all without taking a loss and re-purchased a GP-10. But as I was quite used to external processing I decided to make an init file that has EVERYTHING turned off except for the alt-tuning and guitar modeling.  All 99 patches were replaced with this init file.  So, I use it solely for alt-tuning and guitar models and use other software for effects and amp modeling in my DAW.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 09:52:32 AM by admsustainiac »

Online Rhcole

Re: GP-10 - Possible Fix--Warbles
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2017, 10:45:18 AM »
I have two guitars, both with piezo. One is a Godin Freeway SA with a Ghost, the other a LGX-SA with the RMC. Both have bad alt-tune warbles.

Offline alexmcginness

Re: GP-10 - Possible Fix--Warbles
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2017, 11:03:00 AM »
I still only get warbles on one of my guitars. The others work warble free. The one that warbles does so on only the A string open to the 4th or 5th fret.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP.

Offline bbob

Re: GP-10 - Possible Fix--Warbles
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2017, 11:19:08 AM »
Could the warbles possibly be induced by the mag pickups adjusted too high.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 12:36:29 PM by bbob »

Offline admsustainiac

Re: GP-10 - Possible Fix--Warbles
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2017, 11:27:04 AM »
Could the warbles possibly be induced by mag pickups adjusted too high.

Yes - thats a likely culprit that can contribute to this issue
Quote
If you want more output, raise the pickup closer to the strings. But be careful; get too close and the pickup’s magnetic field can pull too hard on the strings causing an unpleasant sound and interfering with string vibration. If you need more output than that, you’ll need a higher output pickup.

https://sites.psu.edu/ayh5368/files/2016/01/Technical_Definition__Description-24rrog7.pdf

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/tips-tricks-adjusting-your-pickups-fine-tune-your-sound

http://www.harmonycentral.com/articles/whats-the-optimum-guitar-pickup-height

The Secrets of Electric Guitar Pickups
http://apguitars.com/?p=120


« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 12:18:37 PM by admsustainiac »

Offline alexmcginness

Re: GP-10 - Possible Fix--Warbles
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2017, 12:21:13 PM »
Yes - thats a likely culprit that can contribute to this issue (Image removed from quote.)
https://sites.psu.edu/ayh5368/files/2016/01/Technical_Definition__Description-24rrog7.pdf

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/tips-tricks-adjusting-your-pickups-fine-tune-your-sound

http://www.harmonycentral.com/articles/whats-the-optimum-guitar-pickup-height

The Secrets of Electric Guitar Pickups
http://apguitars.com/?p=120

Just checked the one guitar that has the warbles and the hex is the recommended distance away from the strings. This is baffling me as well. I only get it on one of my guitars and only on one string on the first few frets. I cant figure it out.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP.

Offline admsustainiac

Re: GP-10 - Possible Fix--Warbles
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2017, 12:29:18 PM »
Just checked the one guitar that has the warbles and the hex is the recommended distance away from the strings. This is baffling me as well. I only get it on one of my guitars and only on one string on the first few frets. I cant figure it out.

I'm not talking about the GK-3 PU - that should be approx 20-25 mm away from the bridge, and GK PU height should be 1mm gap under the strings

Its the Normal Mag PU's if adjusted too high  / too close the strings that will have a negative impact, causing String warbles.

Typical problem issue on  Stratocasters with Neck  / Mid PU's are adjusted too close to the strings - delivers a chorus warbling like effect and poor Boss GP-10 DSP Alt Tuning warbles too.


old timers might recall that Leslie West always removed the Neck PU from his guitars - he did this to minimize Magnetic flux dampening his strings which might decrease the Sustain on his Flying V, so he could  match the sustain of his old 1959 LP "TV" Junior

 
     
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 02:54:54 PM by admsustainiac »

Offline Brak(E)man

Re: GP-10 - Possible Fix--Warbles
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2017, 12:52:44 PM »
What I can't understand is why it's only GP10 that warbles for me and with all of my GK1,2,3 guitars but not VG8,88,99 (not that the alt tune always sounds great but no warbles)
( maybe I'm thick but I don't get it )
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Offline alexmcginness

Re: GP-10 - Possible Fix--Warbles
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2017, 01:17:49 PM »
I'm not talking about the GK-3 PU - that should be approx 20-25 mm away from the bridge, and GK PU height should be 1mm gap under the strings

Its the Normal Mag PU's if adjusted too high  / too close the strings that will have a negative impact, causing String warbles.

Typical problem issue on  Stratocasters with Neck  / Mid PU's are adjusted too close to the strings - delivers a chorus warbling like effect and poor Boss GP-10 DSP Alt Tuning warbles too.

(Image removed from quote.)
old timers might recall that Leslie West always removed the Neck PU from his guitars - he did this to minimize Magnetic flux dampening his strings which might decrease the Sustain on his Flying V, so he could  match the sustain of his old 1959 LP Junior
(Image removed from quote.)   

The one guitar that has the warbles has no guitar pickups on it. Its a Traveler escape MKII steel. Its got a piezo under the bridge and a gk3 on it and that's it. My two Strats, Flying V and a Les Paul all have no warbles.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP.

Offline admsustainiac

Re: GP-10 - Possible Fix--Warbles
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2017, 01:21:07 PM »
The one guitar that has the warbles has no guitar pickups on it. Its a Traveler escape MKII steel. Its got a piezo under the bridge and a gk3 on it and that's it. My two Strats, Flying V and a Les Paul all have no warbles.

It remains elusive as to why some Gk guitars warble with GP10 Alt Tuining - while others do not

 

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