Author Topic: Normal guitar pick ups not working on Roland Ready Strat  (Read 1405 times)

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Offline harley

Normal guitar pick ups not working on Roland Ready Strat
« on: February 10, 2014, 03:24:39 PM »
Hi all

I have a GR55 and both a GK3 fitted strat and a roland ready strat, GR55 and GK3 are new, the roland ready strat is used. When i flick the 3 way switch on both the GK3 and roland ready strat i get nothing but the midi pick up. As crazy as it sounds, I hadnt, until now, tried the guitar pick ups with the GK3 and only now because the pick ups on the other strat werent working. It seem unlikely that both guitar and GK3 are faulty. Does anyone know if there is a setting which switches this on or off? or should i suspect the 13 pin cable?

thanks in adance
Ian

PS
i am of course talking about the "normal" guitar patches lead 30-1 30-2 and 30-3. Until i get a guitar sound from these patches i understand there is no point trying to modify any others
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 04:26:01 PM by Elantric »

Online Elantric

Re: Normal guitar pick ups not working on Roland Ready Strat
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2014, 04:02:24 PM »
Quote
Hi all

I have a GR55 and both a GK3 fitted strat and a roland ready strat, GR55 and GK3 are new, the roland ready strat is used. When i flick the 3 way switch on both the GK3 and roland ready strat i get nothing but the midi pick up. As crazy as it sounds, I hadnt, until now, tried the guitar pick ups with the GK3 and only now because the pick ups on the other strat werent working. It seem unlikely that both guitar and GK3 are faulty. Does anyone know if there is a setting which switches this on or off? or should i suspect the 13 pin cable?

thanks in advance
Ian

PS
i am of course talking about the "normal" guitar patches lead 30-1 30-2 and 30-3. Until i get a guitar sound from these patches i understand there is no point trying to modify any others

Be sure nothing is inserted into the normal Guitar 1/4" output jack on your Roland Ready Strat - these use a "normally closed" Switching Guitar Output jack ( same exact Switchcraft L12A Jack type as a 1960's Fender Twin Reverb input jack. If you insert a 1/4" plug ( like a typical guitar cord ) this will interrupt and remove the Normal Mag PU signal feed down the 13 pin cable.


More here:
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9169.msg66118#msg66118

Fender Roland Ready and GC-1 Strats actually use the same SwitchCraft Style Jack used on a 1967 Fender Twin Reverb Input Jack.
Switchcraft L12A 1/4" Mono 2-Conductor Jack, Tip Shunt, Long Bushing




« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 04:58:11 PM by Elantric »

Offline harley

Re: Normal guitar pick ups not working on Roland Ready Strat
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2014, 12:11:12 PM »
Thanks for the replay and advice Elantric. The normal pick ups work with a normal set up and i have nothing plugged into the guitar jack when using the roland strat. As i said above, i am getting nothing with the lead 30-1 30-2 and 30-3 patches. I shall try the process in the video in the link and see if it works then. Has anyone else had this experience? by that i mean has anyone else found the normal pick up patches dont work through the 13 pin cable?

regards
Ian

Online Elantric

Re: Normal guitar pick ups not working on Roland Ready Strat
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2014, 12:25:19 PM »
You may test the existing jack in the RR Strat by removing the two jackplate screws and flip the jack 180 degrees.

So it looks like this


Then inspect that the jack's Tip finger contact is mating and touching the tip switch contact seen here on lower right.



With a wood / plastic stick gently push the Jack's Tip contact to mate with the switch element and see if GR-55 Lead Factory 30-1,  30-2,  and 30-3 have normal guitar sound when the GK-3 three way switch is in the Middle position, with all guitar mounted controls knobs on "10"

For reference - here is a broken Switching jack - note the Normally Closed Jack Tip switch  contact finger is bent and always "open, non connected - rendering No Mag PU sound on GR-55 / VG-99 when used with 13 pin cable.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 03:04:11 PM by admsustainiac »

Offline mbenigni

Re: Normal guitar pick ups not working on Roland Ready Strat
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2014, 12:54:35 PM »
I've had this experience.  Sometimes, over time, the flexible metal connector inside the switching jack will become deformed and fail to make contact when a 1/4" jack is inserted.  Replacing the jack is your best bet since it's very difficult to flex that part back in order to make it reliable again.  I actually chose to clamp the part down permanently, so that both the 1/4" out and GK magnetic signal are live simultaneously.

Details and pics here:  http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3652.msg24659#msg24659


Forget all of that.  If this is true:

Quote
on both the GK3 and roland ready strat i get nothing but the midi pick up

...then we are barking up the wrong tree.  It seems more likely that the problem is with the programming in the GR55 patches.  To be honest I never use the GK/Mix/Mag switch with the GR55 and have never found it intuitive (or necessary.)  I just leave it in the mix position and make sure my patches include the voice(s) I need.  It's when I move that switch by mistake, and don't notice, that I run into trouble.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 12:58:59 PM by mbenigni »

Online Elantric

Re: Normal guitar pick ups not working on Roland Ready Strat
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2014, 01:01:38 PM »
Quote
I actually chose to clamp the part down permanently, so that both the 1/4" out and GK magnetic signal are live simultaneously.

The downside of the above is without the 1/4" switching output jack,  this permanently adds the input impedance of the GK-3 Input buffer to the Normal guitar signal path, and this creates a problem when the guitar is used without the GK-13 pin cable. It "dulls the normal pickup sound 100% of the time with reduced highs due to being loaded down by the input impedance of the  GK-3 preamp. 

If you have no "normal guitar sound" with a separate guitar with GK-3 - be sure the short 1/4" cable is connected between normal guitar output jack and GK-3 1/4" Input jack - and all normal guitar volume knobs are on "10" 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 01:08:10 PM by Elantric »

Offline mbenigni

Re: Normal guitar pick ups not working on Roland Ready Strat
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2014, 01:26:48 PM »
Quote
The downside of the above is without the 1/4" switching output jack,  this permanently adds the input impedance of the GK-3 Input buffer to the Normal guitar signal path, and this creates a problem when the guitar is used without the GK-13 pin cable. It "dulls the normal pickup sound 100% of the time with reduced highs due to being loaded down by the input impedance of the  GK-3 preamp.

But I assume this would only be true if both the 1/4" jack and GK cable (running to a live GR device) were in use simultaneously?  Typically I use only one or the other, and I assume the connection forced at the jack just leads to an open circuit on the GK connector, which would have no practical effect on tone.  Fact of the matter is this guitar sounds great played through a conventional rig with 1/4" cable - significantly better than my GC-1 whose switching is intact.  My only concern is that one day the makeshift clamp I stuck in there will come loose, and I'll have a potential short circuit rattling around inside the guitar.  Hopefully not in front of an audience...

Quote
be sure the short 1/4" cable is connected between normal guitar output jack and GK-3 1/4" Input jack

D'oh!  ;)

Online Elantric

Re: Normal guitar pick ups not working on Roland Ready Strat
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2014, 01:43:38 PM »
Quote
But I assume this would only be true if both the 1/4" jack and GK cable (running to a live GR device) were in use simultaneously?

No - you have it backwards

If both the 1/4" jack and GK cable (running to a live GR device) were in use simultaneously, the 1/4" Switching jack takes priority and removes the Mag PU signal from the GK-3 13 pin signal path - so that the stock Strat PU sound has a straight signal (no signal deviation from the sound characteristics of a stock MIM strat's normal path to the output jack  - with no loading from the GK-3 preamp - since this is out of the circuit anytime a 1/4" plug is inserted into the guitar. 


Bulk of complaints that "the GK-3 makes my normal pickups always sound dull" - is the result of this Roland Ready Strat's "Normally Closed 1/4" output Switching jack being defeated - by adding a wire and solder the Tip contact to the N.O. switch contact.     
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 10:45:07 AM by Elantric »

Offline mbenigni

Re: Normal guitar pick ups not working on Roland Ready Strat
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2014, 01:52:28 PM »
Quote
No - you have it backwards

If both the 1/4" jack and GK cable (running to a live GR device) were in use simultaneously, the 1/4" Switching jack takes priority and removes the Mag PU signal from the GK-3 13 pin signal path.

:) I think we're discussing two different points here.  You're describing the intended behavior, when the jack switching is functioning correctly.  I'm saying that, with my hacked switch (always shorted), there shouldn't be any negative effect on 1/4" tone unless a GK cable is also connected and run to a GR/VG unit.

(When I do run a GK cable, I use it exclusively and take the mag signal off of pin 7.  It's doesn't sound quite as good, but it's very, very close and the convenience of one cable is worth it to me on balance.)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 01:57:09 PM by mbenigni »

Online Elantric

Re: Normal guitar pick ups not working on Roland Ready Strat
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2014, 01:58:46 PM »
Quote
I'm saying that, with my hacked switch (always shorted), there shouldn't be any negative effect on 1/4" tone unless a GK cable is also connected and run to a GR/VG unit.

I understand 100%, and what I'm saying is with your  hacked switch (always shorted), now there IS a negative effect on 1/4" tone 100% of the time (regardless of mix of cable types connected to the guitar) because you have the GK-3 input preamp always connected and loading down the hiZ Pickup signal path. Attaching or removing the 13 pin cable makes no difference.

Offline mbenigni

Re: Normal guitar pick ups not working on Roland Ready Strat
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2014, 02:03:08 PM »
Quote
GK-3 input preamp always connected and loading down the hiZ Pickup signal path

Interesting.  I wouldn't have guessed that that circuit would load the signal without power, and with an open at the connector (vs. a GR/VG draining to ground, and powering the op-amps.)

I'll have to open it up again and try getting the switch working properly.  Maybe make a quick recording for A/B comparison.  (But not tonight - this guitar is coming to an audition tomorrow!)

Thank you for the clarification.

Offline mrowley

Re: Normal guitar pick ups not working on Roland Ready Strat
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2014, 09:50:30 AM »
Interesting discussion for me this one! I'm not sure if I have understood the switching functionalities described here though.
I have a question:

I have a GR55 and am considering buying a Roland GC-1 or a used RR Fender guitar to replace my aged and battered Rockinger Frankenstrat with external GK3 Pickup. Unfortunately my GK3 unit seems to be dying out, letting some unwanted signal mixes thru no matter how it's switched so I am looking towards eventual replacement options (the internal GK-Kit-GT3 also being in question).

On the typical GK3 external arrangement I have at the moment the mag pickups feed into the GK3 unit with a short 1/4" patch cable and I have programmed almost all my GR55 patches to also allow the sweet sounds of my mag Duncans into my sound mixes.

Am I right in thinking the RR Strats and GC-1s do this connection automatically and internally, to allow the mag pickup signals into the 13-pin cable path when the toggle switch is at Mix or Normal Pickups? (Effectively duplicating the GK3 with mag pickup patch cable function?).
Rolands product description and Manual does not say much on this at all.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 09:54:12 AM by mrowley »

Online Elantric

Re: Normal guitar pick ups not working on Roland Ready Strat
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2014, 10:18:26 AM »
Quote
Am I right in thinking the RR Strats and GC-1s do this connection automatically and internally, to allow the mag pickup signals into the 13-pin cable path when the toggle switch is at Mix or Normal Pickups? (Effectively duplicating the GK3 with mag pickup patch cable function?).


Correct - when the 1/4" normal output jack on Roland Ready Strat of GC-1 Strat is not connected, the Normal Mag PU signal is sent down Pin #7 of the 13 pin cable to the GR-55/ VG-99.

But the 1/4" normal output jack on Roland Ready Strat and GC-1 Strat is a switching type, as soon as you insert a 1/4" male plug into this jack (to feed signal into normal FX and Amp) it switches OFF sending the Normal Mag PU signal internally down Pin #7 of the 13 pin cable.   
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 11:55:38 AM by Elantric »

Offline mrowley

Re: Normal guitar pick ups not working on Roland Ready Strat
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2014, 02:47:55 AM »
@ Elantric

Thanks for the simple clarification.  :)
It would have been nice if Roland could have written that somewhere in their Info for these products but I guess they don't want to let the secret out that the GR55 can also be set up to reproduce the sounds of their other products like the GT100 etc! (......which is what I am also doing of course  ;D ).

 

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