GR-55 -Problem with open string in analog GR

Started by starlessffxi, May 14, 2015, 10:32:49 AM

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starlessffxi

Has anyone had this problem?

using GK-3 pickup / GR-55 / Model: 18 Synth Analog GR

all notes and open strings sound great, and sustain very long, except for the open G string. When I strike this string it sounds normal for a moment and then becomes garbled sounding, cutting in and out, etc.

It could be the nature of the analog GR filters that give it that kind of sound, a sort of distorted sound, but I find it odd that only one open string has this issue for me.
I played around with all the settings including filter cut off, reso, comp.  GK settings like sensitivity, distance, and so on.
Oh, I also took a more extreme approach and swapped out the whole GK pickup with another one that I had on my 2nd guitar. Testing on my second guitar before I removed the pickup, it had no issue.
Upon installing that pick up on my primary guitar, the problem persists.

Only maybe odd thing about my installation, it's a les paul type bridge, and I have the GK pickup cable under my tailpiece. It doesn't seem to improve my issue if I move it around also.

Any ideas?

Elantric

Possible issues:


* Intermittent GK-13 Cable electrical connection
     https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3132.0

* Intermittent defective GK-3 PU electrical connection
     (contact Roland Service)

* Nut Slot on "G" string too low


starlessffxi

I suspected the GK cable, either at guitar end or on the GR55, as this is a common problem apparently.
Wiggled them both around a lot, didn't seem to make any difference.

As far as the GK3 itself, I installed a spare one, still a problem. I was a little worried bout the double sided tape pulling on the mini pick up circuit board when removing it.

Nut slot suggestion is interesting. I'm at a loss if this is the issue though. The guitar is only a year old and the nut looks fine as far as I can tell.

Another odd thing I encountered when troubleshooting this, is if I simply tune the G string up a half step or even less, the problem completely disappears and the note rings long and clean.

Scratching my head now lol

starlessffxi

Another weird thing, this problem is only occurring with VCO mode. DIST mode is perfect...

Elantric

#4
I assume your strings are all at standard A=440hz  normal tuning, and not Drop "C"  ?

Also under the GR-55''s "GK Settings"  - check for the GK PU "Reverse" setting.

If this is was set incorrectly - the brickwall filter in the DSP might be rejecting your open "G" string frequency

A GR-55 Reset / Restore might be needed

And - Check that your GR-55 is  in "Guitar Mode" and not "Bass Mode"


starlessffxi

440hz, guitar mode, standard tuning.

GK PU is set to reverse, but that's only because its a left handed guitar.
Tried both ways anyway, doesn't correct it.

Restore eh.. well I suppose I could do that. Need to remember some of my patch settings first.

Thanks for the tips

papabuss

Shut it down.
Unplug both components.
And start again.
FENDER STRATOCASTER (1974); BRIAN MAY RED SPECIAL; VG 99; GR 55; Yamaha DX 7

Music was my first love and it will be my last (JOHN MILES)

gumtown

Try new/different strings on the guitar.

Do i understand this correctly? If you take the GK pickup off guitar A and try it on guitar B it is fine?

Must be harmonic overtones from the guitar, try muting the strings from the tuners to the nut and from the bridge to the witness point.
Does it happen if just the one string is plucked as opposed to a chord strum?
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Elantric

QuoteGK PU is set to reverse, but that's only because its a left handed guitar.
Tried both ways anyway, doesn't correct it.

Post a pic of your left handed Guitar with GK-3

concordal

Quote from: starlessffxi on May 14, 2015, 12:33:41 PM
Need to remember some of my patch settings first.


@starlessffxi   No need to remember if you perform a backup.  You can backup all patches and GR-55 settings to a flash drive

starlessffxi

#10


The audio quality is poor, but I'm sure you'll hear the problem. Note when I tune the G string up half a step, the note rings clearly.



vtgearhead

What is the clearance between G string and the first fret?  If the nut slot is worn down you can get some very oddball harmonics from an open string.  When you raise the tuning you also increase the tension, which may be just enough to prevent the issue.

starlessffxi

Checked nut slot, doesn't appear to be worn down at all, no debris in there. The guitar is quite new, nut still looks new.

Clearance on first fret is normal. I don't have a gauge, looks to be about .5mm.  My other guitar has higher action. Debating on raising action on problem guitar to see if that helps.

It seems I get this problem on 5th fret D string G note also, just not quite as bad. Weird stuff

Elantric

#13
Nut height and Fret condition play a crucial role in accurate Guitar Modeling with least anomalies 

and many "new" guitars still require a Fret level, dress, polish  - Nut Height adjustment, Bridge saddle intonation  for your specific brand, type, gauge of strings - by a repairman before they can properly work with Roland GK processors


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5043.msg34288#msg34288


GR-55 FAQ
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3137.0
QuoteGR-55 manual #1 MEMO  (page 7)
• Be aware that string buzz due to a warped neck or worn frets, or faulty octave adjustment (intonation), can cause problems such as wrong notes being produced.


starlessffxi

an update to this issue.. never could fix it, only by playing in a different tuning.
bought another guitar, issue still present, though not quite as bad, still there though
have 2 cables to try, deoxit'd the GK3, cable pins, and input on GR55.


starlessffxi

another update.. still have the issue. updated the firmware. it was like 1.00 now its 1.50
notes still cutting out and getting all computer sounding on some notes. now its first fret g string, used to be open g.
I tried different distance settings, to no avail.
factory reset didn't do anything either.

I would love for analog gr model to work good enough to use. the way it is now is unusable due to some notes screwing up.
the  pcm gr sounds are trash and don't track good enough for real playing so they are out.

why do some notes on analog gr sustain forever, and some just die quick deaths. this seems to be part of the issue.
would like to know other users' experience with the analog gr model on the gr-55 with regard to sustain, note accuracy, quality of the notes.

and to be clear, yes I realize the gr naturally has a kind of raspy buzzy sound.

admin

#16
Your guitar's setup, intonation, and fret condition ( should be very polished) ,  is crucial for best GR-55 performance 
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/GR-55_OM.pdf





GR-55 - James' (UK Roland Demonstrator) video and patches
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8208.0

starlessffxi

and another thing I tried recently. got an internal gk kit, hooked it up and the problem is still present. the internal kit is new.


starlessffxi

I maybe give the fret polishing suggestion a try. its a used guitar but its tip top. frets have lots of meat, very clean, no dings or scratches. the setup is fine as far as I can tell but I will also double check intonation.

admin

Quote from: starlessffxi on March 23, 2018, 05:18:33 PM
and another thing I tried recently. got an internal gk kit, hooked it up and the problem is still present. the internal kit is new.

http://roland.com/V-Guitar/howto.html




vtgearhead

Quote from: admsustainiac on March 23, 2018, 05:18:17 PM
Your guitar's setup, intonation, and fret condition ( should be very polished) ,  is crucial for best GR-55 performance 
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/GR-55_OM.pdf





GR-55 - James' (UK Roland Demonstrator) video and patches
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8208.0

Always humbling to watch that demo.  I tried hard to engage with the GR-55, but in the end was forced to conclude that I just wasn't a clean enough player to get good results. 

Elantric

#21
The sluggish patch change time with long silent mute between each patch change, and the LCD navigation to change basic important things ( reverb depth, tremolo speed, and the accidental looper engagement keeps my GR-55 at home  , where it won't spoil the gig for my trio. 

But it remains the favorite among our forum  members 

( I rarely have a need for mine, while the GP-10 sees lots of action because its features I find superior and meet my live gig needs.