TRAYNOR K4 STEREO AMP

Started by germanicus, April 29, 2008, 02:06:22 AM

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germanicus

Quote from:  mbenigni on January 17, 2012, 07:39:30 AM
This weekend I set up a Yamaha HS80 next to my K4 and hooked both up in mono via an A/B switch.  What a difference; it's impossible to overstate the importance of a good monitor.  It was amazing how much easier everything is with the HS80's - the guitar felt more responsive, the tones more convincing, and the GR55 itself is actually easier to program, because I can identify the character of the amp models and start from the best base tone, rather than picking arbitrarily between models that sound identical on the K4, and then fighting with a tone stack that doesn't seem to cooperate.


I think this comparison is quite ironic.

I use yamaha HS80's as well, and tweak/built both my pod hd500 and gr55 patches with them through my home DAW. When playing through the k4 live, they sound extremely similar, I only have to tweak the channel eq slightly to compensate for the given room acoustics.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

mbenigni

Quote from:  germanicus on February 04, 2012, 12:02:34 AM
I think this comparison is quite ironic.

I use yamaha HS80's as well, and tweak/built both my pod hd500 and gr55 patches with them through my home DAW. When playing through the k4 live, they sound extremely similar, I only have to tweak the channel eq slightly to compensate for the given room acoustics.

I don't know what to say to this.  It either comes down to a matter of taste, or perhaps all K4's are not created equal.  It is entirely possible that Traynor has begun cutting corners since they first started manufacturing this product.  But I've had other ears on the case, and others confirm that the K4 doesn't sound as good as the HS80.  The K4/GR55 pair is boxier, honkier, and per a bassist/guitarist friend, "more keyboardish" than the HS80. 

I wouldn't expect  it to sound quite the same as a near/mid-field studio monitor, nor do you claim that it does. ("Very similar" can mean just about anything.)  But I just can't get on with how temperamental it is in terms of input levels vs. distortion.

Elantric

#52
QuoteHas anyone tryed the Roland AC 33 or AC 60?

I own both those - use them for acoustic gigs.

They work only "so-so" - with the VG-99 / GR-55 - for low volume practice its ok, but at gigs  the speakers tend to flap on the low frequencies.

The Roland Amp to get in that series would be the larger AC-90. Heard good things from other VG-99 users who use it,  but I have not tried it personally.

Also there are very good reports of using the Roland Cube 80 XL as a monitor for VG-99  / GR-55 (feed the MP3 Aux Input) , and that works very well. (80 watts 12" speaker)

They go on sale from time to time - you could get two Cube-80 XL's if you want stereo.  and still be cheaper (and louder) than the Roland AC-90

Also if you own a Traynor K4, and hate the sound due to harsh  / brittle high frequency distortion  - you probably have over heated tweeters that are scraping the 1" voice coils on the HR Drivers  - here is a link and instructions on a DIY Traynor K4 HF Diaphram replacement
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9493.0

merman93

#53
Traynor K4  - Nice amp,... When you go through your Traynor, how do you setup the output section of Hd500? The manual says, "there is no right way" use what sounds best. I have been inconsistent, but most of the time with HD 500 I turn off cabinet and mic sims .
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germanicus

I put my synth tones, looper output and guitar sounds (hd500) through a Traynor K4 (FRFR Keyboard amp).
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

germanicus

Quote from:  merman93
Nice amp,... When you go through your Traynor, how do you setup the output section of Hd500? The manual says, "there is no right way" use what sounds best. I have been inconsistent, but most of the time with HD 500 I turn off cabinet and mic sims .

I use the "Studio/Direct" setting. As the Traynor has dedicated midrange speakers and tweeters, Its able to amplify the full range of its input signal relatively accurately. I use the hd500's amp/cab sims.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

Elantric

#56
Despite the mixed reviews voiced earlier in this thread, myself I would place the Traynor K4 (with un damaged Foster HF drivers) as one of the most ideal all in one flat response full range Stereo Amplification systems available today for VG-99/GR-55. No hum or buzz here - just good clean loud stereo sound.

http://traynoramps.com/keyboard/product/k4/

K4 Owners Manual
http://traynoramps.com/downloads/ownersman/omk4.pdf

K4 Service Manual
http://traynoramps.com/downloads/servman/smk4.pdf




Also when I call the Traynor customer support Tel number in New York I always get a prompt smart person eager to help with minimal wait time.
http://www.traynoramps.com/contact
Traynor Amplifiers USA
4623 Witmer Industrial Estate
Niagra Falls, NY
USA 14305
Phone (716) 297-2920
Fax (716) 297-3689


Thanks to inflation these are now pushing over $1100 New
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/traynor-k4-keyboard-amp

Many used ones are here:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/traynor-k4-keyboard-amp/702649005000016?source=3WWRWXGP&gclid=COqp7ozr37kCFQeCQgod1D8Arw&kwid=productads-plaid%5e58357691907-sku%5e702649005000016@ADL4MF-adType%5ePLA-device%5ec-adid%5e30428704227



To save $$,  I purchased mine as a restock from ProAudioStar back in 2008 for $675, but after a few years of playing I recently discovered the high frequencies have recently begun to breakup and distort prematurely, or out right "Buzz" terribly like a kazoo. Time for a speaker repair!

Rather as reported earlier in this very thread
QuotePlaying the K4 for the first time in a few weeks, and I think I'm hearing the same thing jkstraw complained about.  There's a "wax paper" (that's how it sounds to me anyway) buzz coming off one, or perhaps both, of the speaker cones

Further research reveals Keyboard players who use the Traynor K4 as their principal on stage amplification system night after night find they must replace the High Frequency Tweeter diaphragms on a regular basis. So I decided to replace the HF Horn diaphragms in my Traynor K4 after I began hearing buzz , and now it sounds great (better than new) with all my DSP Guitar modeler a (KPA, HD500, VG-99, GR-55, Mustang Floor) very smooth and gets really loud enough for my needs. Actually goes louder than my EV ELX112P, PA Speakers.

Lesson learned, my K4 restock was probably used once by a keyboard player who played it too loud and over heated and damaged the HF tweeters and then returned it.
If you find a gently used Traynor K4  to buy, but hesitate because the HF horn tweeters distort, buzz or sound like a kazoo,  realize both HF diaphragm voice coils have a susceptability to fail , producing distortion -  but know these can be repaired easily for under $20 each to sound like new again for many many more gigs.

* How to replace Traynor K4 HF tweeter driver diaphragms
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9493.0



I also purchased a very good protective Traynor K4 Transport Fit travel cover from LeCover,
http://www.lecover.com/proddetail.php?prod=1721



and use a collapsible MagnaCart folding hand truck from Costco -now the K4 is far more easy to transport.



whippinpost91850

Love the little Magnacart from Costco. It folds up small amd will carry a surprising amount of weight

Bill Ruppert

I love that little cart as well.
I have used one for years.
Folds flat and small. I got mine at Sears.


Quote from: whippinpost91850 on September 22, 2013, 04:51:08 PM
Love the little Magnacart from Costco. It folds up small amd will carry a surprising amount of weight

mbenigni

#59
QuoteLesson learned, my K4 restock was probably used once by a keyboard player who played it too loud and damaged the tweeters and then returned it.
If you find one to buy, but hesitate because the HF horns distort, buzz or sound like a kazoo,  realize both HF diaphragm voice coils have a susceptability to fail , producing distortion -  but know these can be repaired easily for under $20 each to sound like new again for many many more gigs.

Wish I'd known this before I sold mine at a $500 loss.  At the time, I couldn't find anyone (excepting those early posts by jkstraw) to corroborate what I was hearing in the way of HF driver buzz, but it sounds like we're on the same page now.  At least I know I'm not crazy...  :)

Elantric

#60
Actually if you had buzzing tweeters, a typical Amp Service center should have been able to diagnose defective tweeter voice coils.

My Traynor K4 sounded great - no buzzes or rattles,  until 6 weeks ago, when one tweeter began buzzing with "kazoo" like distortion.
So I ordered a complete replacement HF Horn from a Traynor Dealer
Traynor P/N 7286.

When it arrived was the first I saw that the unit was actually a Foster PHT-406 ,



Then 3 weeks ago, my remaining K4 HF Tweeter began buzzing too, so instead of ordering yet another  Foster PHT-406 HF Tweeter, I decided to investigate to see if I could locate replacement voicecoils only - much like I had to do back in the '70's with my Altec-Lansing PA Cabs.

Thats when I found SimplySpeakers.com and their 4pack of replacement HF diaphrams for  Foster PHT-406.
http://www.simplyspeakers.com/foster-replacement-speaker-diaphragm-d-420-4.html

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9493.0
With working HF Horns, the K4 sounds great again.

 
 

mbenigni

QuoteActually if you had buzzing tweeters, a typical Amp Service center should have been able to diagnose defective tweeter voice coils.

True.  I just couldn't convince myself that the amp was defective per se, as it had sounded that way right out of the factory.  And Traynor wouldn't respond to my email even to recommend a service center.  So I decided to sell it and move on - I just never imagined I'd take such a hit on price!

P.S. Great info re: the Fostex driver.  Thanks for sharing that.

Toby Krebs

#62
I don't care who makes it or how much it costs all new keyboard amp stock speakers suck. Take them out and replace them and the tweeters/horns too. For the money they are charging these companies will not give you speakers that can take the heat in a live setting. I buy old used Roland KC300s' etc... and change the crap speakers and tweeters and they kick some serious ass after that.Well worth the money as you can do the work yourself and put something in there that will work. In the case of an amp like the Traynor with so many speakers the company would have to charge you another 600 dollars for premium speakers to make the amp gig worthy. Buy a used one(lots of those around ) and change the speakers and you will really have something.Good luck with dealing with the Traynor company. By the time they get around to addressing your concerns you can have changed all the cheap lo-fi speakers they gave you and use that thing the way it should be used. I don't think these people at these companies know how loud some of us have to play live. I just did a 600 person wedding with a very large PA and barely had enough headroom with my 2 alto 10. in powered monitors just for my onstage rig. I also blast through the monitors(EV full range 15s' loud as "blank") and the mains-4 QSC power amps and 2 EV 15. in tops with 2 dual 18 in subs! At the end of the day I have found I have to modify/upgrade everything I have amp wise because none of it works stock in the "real" world. Yes this sucks for us. Even Roland who makes decent keyboard amps gives you crap speakers in it. If you don't believe me take a speaker or two out of that Traynor amp and really examine what they have given you. You will be less than impressed.

mbenigni

QuoteIf you don't believe me take a speaker or two out of that Traynor amp and really examine what they have given you. You will be less than impressed.

I certainly believe you.  I didn't need to take the speakers out to realize I was less than impressed.  Ears did the job.

Toby Krebs

Roland/Traynor/Fender/Peavey/Alesis/Line 6 etc...all make great speakers after you remove them from the amp/cabinet. I always toss them a few times out in front of my house before they go into the trash can.

Elantric

#65
QuoteRoland/Traynor/Fender/Peavey/Alesis/Line 6 etc...all make great speakers after you remove them from the amp/cabinet. I always toss them a few times out in front of my house before they go into the trash can.



I guess the K4  will remain the secret weapon for a few of us here (myself and Germanicus - the OP) who prefer its stereo sound and all -in -one- form factor compared to other rigs.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=720.0

A914Man

Not to hijack this thread too much, but I've been using a Yamaha EX640 all in one PA head and either one or two Peavey SP2M (with the black widow, and 22c horn) with great results.  I got the Yamaha and one of the Peaveys used for $190 each (shipped to me), so for $380 I'm totally happy.  I later got a killer deal on two more of the SP2M's and two Peavey CS800's (in a SKB 21 space rack) for $500.
After only 37 years, I'm almost as good as I thought I was when I was 21

Elantric

#67


QuoteNot to hijack this thread too much, but I've been using a Yamaha EX640 all in one PA head and either one or two Peavey SP2M (with the black widow, and 22c horn) with great results.
I suggest please repost the above on the "Recommended Amps" thread here - else it will get lost.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9484.0

DF400

I've had the K4 for a few years now, and can say I am not that impressed with the sound -especially when using with a modeler such as the Axe-Fx. It sound brash and thin to me, with harsh high frequencies and shallow mids. Perhaps I'm missing something? Also, where I think Trainer missed the mark on this is the lack of an effect loop or at least an integrated reverb - then I would be able to carry only this unit for acoustic setups.

Elantric

If your K4 has ANY sort of high frequency "kazoo" type buzzes there is a simple fix.

The HF horn diaphragms  can easily over heat if you play a long high volume gig
read this thread
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9493.0
With working HF Horns, the K4 sounds great again.

imerkat

Quote from: DF400 on May 17, 2015, 03:02:33 PM
I've had the K4 for a few years now, and can say I am not that impressed with the sound -especially when using with a modeler such as the Axe-Fx. It sound brash and thin to me

Yeah, I think your HF drives needs maintenance. I replaced the diaphragm twice and the second time I had to add a fuse lamp for protection. It sounds much better

BBach

How did you install the fuses, and what type did you use ? Did you make it easy to replace the fuse without opening the unit up?

Elantric

#72
QuoteHow did you install the fuses, and what type did you use ? Did you make it easy to replace the fuse without opening the unit up?

ITs an old PA  / Car Stereo installer trick - many use "Dome light bulbs in series with the  horn Tweeter - saves their diaphram voice coils from burning up due to any DC current that might get past the Crossover to the HF horn 

Speaker Crossover Tweeter Protector Lamp
http://www.parts-express.com/eminence-px-bulb-replacement-tweeter-protection-lamp-for-crossover--290-659
http://www.parts-express.com/speaker-crossover-tweeter-protector-lamp--260-231



imerkat

#73
Quote from: BBach on May 20, 2015, 10:27:00 AM
How did you install the fuses, and what type did you use ? Did you make it easy to replace the fuse without opening the unit up?

I used JBL Fuse Bulb for Speakers from Sweetwater;

JBL Fuse Bulb for Speakers
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SK3
Elantric forward me a link to it on another thread.

I took the grill off to do it. I folded each end stuck it inside the hot wire terminals and wrapped in electrical tape. not pretty but reversible.

Elantric

#74
TRAYNOR K4 STEREO AMP - No longer manufactured
http://traynoramps.com/products

and sadly Peter Traynor passed away last May 2016
http://traynoramps.com/peter_traynor

QuotePeter Traynor 1940 - 2016

Peter Traynor
In the early 60s, Elvis was going strong and the Beatles were about to hit the charts. Peter Traynor was in his early twenties at the time and was both an electronics repairman and a fledgling bass player in the burgeoning Toronto music scene. He, like many young musicians of the day would spend much of his spare time hanging around a local music store in town. In Pete's case, he eventually started working at the original Long & McQuade Store as a part-time amplifier repairman.

Times were changing, and Pete had a rare ability to see the musical trends of the day, understand what was available for the musicians around him, see existing limitations and create innovative solutions. His technical knowledge, as well as his experience as an active player gave him a rare insight to the musician's needs of the time.

Peter's ability to create solutions and deliver features that appealed to musicians everywhere made him not only a unique character, but a true innovator. Pete passed away in May 2016, yet the brand that carries his name some 50+ years after his first creation remains a testament to his legacy and his vision.