Graph-Tech Ghost Info

Started by Elantric, March 10, 2008, 11:15:34 AM

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EJROCKS

thanks for the info sustaniac and all the others that replied.  That seems like a lot
of work for a guitar that should come with something like this anyway.  I wonder
why the carvin guys dont do this, you pay enough for there guitars                                                   I dont wanna wreck my guitar and Im not very
good at messin  with my instruments.   I suppose I will have to try though,  I wanna
be able to play out with it.   If there is a short cut plz advise me.

Elantric

#26
Forward this thread to Carvin and Graphtech - you are not the only one dealing with this.

Perhaps both companies can benefit and become educated about the corrective steps required when using their products at high decibel volume levels.



I know many here love the Ghost Piezo  system

My experience has been the opposite. Which IMHO questions the veracity of the Ghost Piezo user as I will consider the source as suspect and divide by 2 any further opinions they express.

Problems I experienced with the Graphtech Ghost Piezo systems are

* high adjacent string crosstalk. Use the VG-99 string sensitivity LCD screen , pluck the "D" string  , and watch the A and G string meters move at almost same level.  This adjacent string crosstalk spells disaster for DSP Alt tuning and Guitar to MIDI.

* high noise and hiss from the Graphtech ghost hex preamp. It's a shower of hiss.
The designers of this preamp must have figured " sure its crap, but who cares about poor noise floor on our hex 6 channel preamp for the 13 pin output, its only feeding a guitar to MIDI System and the noise from our highly profitable preamp will never be heard since it's just going to be triggering a Guitar to MIDI system driving a PCM  synth / sampler/rompler".

Wrong - On the VGuitar COSM modeling systems and Antares ATG -1 , the raw vibrating string and its preamp are an essential part of the signal chain , any noise in the hex 13 pin preamp will be heard in the final output signal of your GP-10, GR-55, VG-8,VG-88,VG-99.

To minimize the hiss when using  Ghost Piezo 13 pin guitars, one must employ the COSM GUITAR "NS" ( Noise suppressor) at all times ,with resulting poor dynamic range and lack of sustain.

* no palm muting. -if you play rock,surf,metal styles that require palm muting at the bridge, Ghost piezo just don't work


I know a few folks who got a new Godin Freeway SA and GR-55 , but gave up and will never return after their terrible experience

I would too if that gear was my only exposure to the GK 13 pin world!




UltimateGuitarSoul

Quote from:  EJROCKS on February 21, 2009, 06:43:41 PM
Hey guys anyone got any advice on what I can do to stop the feedback.
Ive used the noisegates to the fullest.  Ive adjust my string sensitivity.
I was playin with friends today and the feedback was aweful.   It made
everyones ears kring.  I had more control of this with my les paul but my
carvin semi hollow guitar doesnt work well at all at loud volumes.  Anyone
have this problem and if so I appreciate any help.

I had EXACTLY the same issue last year...DOHH what a mess it was.

-Mike  ;)

dr_martijn

Quote from:  vanceg on November 18, 2008, 01:23:48 PM
If the internal GK3 kit isn't going to fit, how in the world are you going to fit the Ghost system?  I have both (the Ghost on my bass and the GK03 internal on my baritone) and the Ghost takes up more space. 

OH!  You are saying that the GK-3 PICKKUP isn't going to fit between your pickup and the floyd?  That's improbable, but possible I suppose. How much space do you have between the pickup and the Floyd?

Vance

I only have a couple of mm's. I can get the GK-3 in between but then it's completely wedged between the PU and the studs from the floyd. On top of that, the body of the Silo behind the floyd isn't big enough to hold the electronics part of the GK, so I can't mount it on the strap-screw.

I don't exactly know how big the HEX/Acoustic-boards are so I've no idea if it will fit in the electronics-cavity, and I'll probably have to route a place for the connector on the side...

Dilemma's, dilemma's... At the moment I only use the COSM-part of the VG with the Silo and a beat-up Strat with the GK for the alternate tunings and such, but I bought the Silo because it plays like butter...  >:(

Kevin M

Which luthier in Austin?  Satisfied with their work?

Quote from:  elchampion on September 30, 2008, 01:37:30 PM
I'm currently having an ergonomic guitar made by a local luthier here in Austin. I'm on month 2 of an approx. 6 month wait. So I keep changing my mind as to what I want this guitar to have electronics wise. Right now my main guitar is an EJ Strat with a GK-3 attached and I love it very much, so I thought why not make this guitar unique just having the internal roland Hex pick-up. Then I thought why not have both the Ghost Hexaphonic/Acoustophic and roland Hex. Essentially having 2 13 pin connection on the guitar one going to the VG and the other to my Axon. After adding it all up, it total over 600.00 bucks. I think I gonna go with the traditional Axe with the internal Roland Hex and forget about the ghost.

robocop

The guitar is the same model as this expired Ebay listing -

http://cgi.ebay.com/Xotica-Midi-Synth-Access-Electric-Acoustic-Guitar_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a13Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem41457ee419QQitemZ280338818073QQptZGuitarQQsalenotsupported

It uses the ghost saddles - I've been playing with it and a VG-99 for the last couple of hours. Found your forum and it looks like a great place to find the info I need. Just wondered if anyone else was familiar with this builder - apparently they've been around for a while.

Note - this is not the same company as xotic that makes boutique pedals and upper end strats etc.

I'll be happy to post a review of it when I've got it dialed in. I've used Gk pickups before and have owned VG-8 and VG-88. So far the 99 is a quantum leap forward but I've got a lot to learn.

peace - robo

germanicus

Welcome to the boards!
If you havent done so you will probably want to update your VG-99 to version 1.04 as it has additional tweak settings for piezo 13 pin pickups.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

robocop

thanks for the welcome - that's on the to do list.

feloniouspunk

Cool looking guitar!  I like the wood bridge. Definitely update the firmware.  It was for piezo users.
Lots of Gear. :)

Gatormike

Hey Gang:  I posted this at Carvin forum and it may just be a problem with the Carvin deployment of the Ghost system on my new HF2S.  Please feel free to help me as I am having a problem with a weak mag signal output through the 13-pin cable (at least that's what I think).  However it could be a VG-99 setting I am missing.  Read on and thanks for any help.  Mike

Hello all.  Been totally enjoying my new HF2S.  I think I may have an issue though that I did not test during the 10 day free-look period.  Hopefully others familiar with Carvin's deployment of the Ghost piezo/synth system can help me understand if I truly have a problem or not. 

First, I am running just the 13-pin cable out to my VG-99.  No other cables connected to the guitar's mag or piezo output jacks.  My understanding is that ALL 3 signals should be sent out to the VG-99 in this scenario.  I then have my VG-99 sub outs connected to my powered studio monitors to set up patches.

I was trying to test out some of the amp models of the VG-99 with just the mag sound/output of my new HF2S (I did NOT want any COSM guitar signal whatsoever).  I would go into the VG-99 editor and turn down the COSM guitar signal to "0" and turn up the magnetic pickup signal to "100".  However, when I did this, the mag signal is EXTREMELY weak --- actually it is unusable --- this is with the volume knob on the guitar cranked up to 10 as well (made sure I did that too!).  However, if I turn up the piezo volume control on the guitar (again with the COSM guitar level at "0" and the other to "100"), the piezo signal comes through loud and clear!!!??!

It seems like the mag signal is totally weak or buffered through the 13-pin   output.  Is this what others are experiencing with their Carvin synth set ups and the VG-99??  I have poured over the VG-99 manual and trolled through every possible screen on the VG and on the editor and I cannot find a solution??  Am I just missing some setting on the VG-99???  Or do I have a problem with my new HF2S' mag signal coming through the 13-pin adequately?? 

Thanks for any input and help you may provide.  I remain concerned and will call the Carvin folks if no one here can point me in the right direction to troubleshoot and cure this problem.  Take care.  Mike 

Brent Flash

Sounds like the guitar but does it have a balance for the Mag and Piezo. That could do it if there is one. If not may be a defect or design flaw.

aliensporebomb

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Gatormike

Thanks both.  Alienspore, my Carvin HF2S does not have any toggle switch like on the Gk or the Godin (mags only/mix of mags and Gk/Gk only).  I presume that is what everyone means by "toggle" in the other discussion thread you referred me to.  With the Carvin, I suppose all blending or soloing of any particular signals is intended to be by the knobs on the guitar: mag volume, piezo volume, and synth/13-pin volume. 

I think I need to go back and try something else: connect only the 13-pin cable to the VG-99, turn up BOTH the mag volume knob and the synth/13-pin volume knob on the Carvin to the max, initiate a new VG patch, turn on a COSM guitar model, then turn the COSM level in the editor down to "0" and turn up the Normal P/U level to "100" and see if that does the trick.  May not get to it tonight, but I'll report back if that solves it.

There is no other normal/mag pickup level control outside of the COSM guitar edit page for the overall VG system though, correct? 

Thanks as always.  Peace.  Mike

Gatormike

Well, I've made some progress...sort off...First, I found that I have to turn up fully BOTH the synth/13-pin knob and the mag volume knob on the guitar.  If I turn down the synth/13-pin knob on the guitar to "0", there is no output through the 13-pin cable of the mag signal even if the mag volume is full/maxed.  However, even with both fully turned up, the mag signal was still pitifully weak when I set the COSM guitar level to "0" and turned the Normal P/U level to "100" for the patch. So...

Next, I turned the GK pickup setting to "OFF" in the GK settings...this immediately resulted in a "boosted" mag signal through the 13-pin cable.  Could that be possible??  Next, I went to the mixer, ran everything through Channel A only, turned up the level on Channel A, made sure Channel A pan was set to center, and endeavored to ensure there was no other mixer setting that could impair the mag signal.  As a result, I think I got a decent mag only output signal into the VG and out through my monitors (not nearly as strong as the piezo, but it seems that it is a usable signal for recording purposes). 

Unfortunately, with the amp models, I am now getting too much noise/hiss in the sub output (regardless how I try to balance the patch level and the sub out levels).  However, the amount of noise/hiss varies from amp model to amp model.  Is this just part of the COSM modeling depending upon the amp selected???  Note that I am not cranking the gain on the models either.  Further, I've read that the 13-pin cable is shielded so I'm surely not experience problems with either the power supply on my KRK VXT-6 monitor (I have the VG sitting next to one) or the Apple Computer, right? 

The amp models candidly sound poor with this mag signal through the 13-pin only - no matter how much tweaking (I tweaked the JC, the clean twin, and the rectifier models and all but the clean twin sounded poor).  I think I am still missing something here and will continue to troubleshoot. 

I know that I still need to connect the 1/4" mag output from the Carvin to the guitar input on the back of the VG for this testing of amp models experiment.  Probably, it will be significantly better (sh*t, I better get GT-10 quality results through that signal path).   

Any further ideas on the 13-pin weak mag signal and how to improve it are welcomed and I'll post any solution I might find.  On a business trip for the next few days, so no further testing will happen until next week.  Peace and thank you again!  Mike

illwaudio circuits

#39
Is it possible?  I want to upgrade an older synth-ready guitar (has a magnetic hexaphonic pickup pre-installed including 6 individual string-outs) but am interested in installed the GHOST preamp for cost reasons instead of the GK-3-Kit...

...can it work or does the GHOST absolutely require a piezo crystal signal?


EDIT:

See here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,2110.msg11889.html#msg11889

admin

#40
http://jbwid.com/guitar/hexpander.htm
GRAPHTECH GHOST/HEXPANDER SYSTEM
STRATOCASTER INSTALLATION


clamhands

#41
Ok...after some serious combining of coupons and discounts I decided to go ahead with purchase and installation of a Graphtech LB63 Floyd Rose bridge and Hexpander...It looks like I may the first one here to actually do this :o

Guitar that was modified:

Mid 90's ESP M2 Deluxe.  24 fret bolt on, single space slanted pickup at the neck, full size humbucker at the bridge, and an ESP/Schaller licensed Floyd Rose bridge.  Single volume knob and three way toggle for pickup selection.

Upgrades:

Graphtech LB63 Bridge, Hexpander, and Hexpander wiring kit.  Duncan JB jr pickup (neck) and Gibson Tony Iommi pickup (bridge).

The installer:

Mike Lull of Guitar Works, Bellevue WA (www.mikelull.com)- yep, the very same Mike Lull that builds custom basses.

The installation:

Removed the ESP bridge and replaced with LB63.  Important note- The LB63 is the same size as an original Floyd Rose Bridge.  The ESP bridge was slightly smaller than the LB63, so the existing "bridge cavity" on the guitar body had to be routed both a little longer and a little wider to accept the LB63.  Luckily the existing bridge studs did not have to be removed or modified.

Installer made the decision to reposition the locking nut in a quasi "Buzz" fashion to fix existing intonation issues (I was dubious at the suggestion, but it really did make a huge improvement to the sound and playability of the guitar).

Removed and replaced both magnetic pickups.

Replaced the existing volume pot with a 500K push pull to coil tap both new magnetic pickups.

Installed Hexpander volume pot in the original location of the pickup selector (relocated pickup selector below and slightly forward of the magnetic pickup volume knob).  

Installed the two Hexpander micro switches between the two volume knobs.

Installed the Hexpander (decided that this guitar would be VG only,  so the ¼ output jack route was used for the 13pin output).

The complications:

Neither the LB63 nor the Hexpander came with any printed instructions.  To further complicate matters the connector cable from the LB to the Hexpander board was not color coded or keyed. This caused the first attempt at installation to have the piezo wiring reversed.  My installer then spent some time on the phone with Graphtech to sort things out.  Graphtech provided very good phone support (and followed up by sending a bunch of good installation docs in email as well), but my installer had to charge me for his talk time, so I'm guessing the initial lack of instructions cost me about $30 out of pocket- grrrrrrr.

The Hexpander wiring kit did NOT include a cable to connect the mag pickups to the Hexpander board.  While I bought the wiring kit from an authorized dealer, everything came as individually packaged components rather than in one single kit.  Not sure if this is a standard practice, or if my dealer "rolled his own" kit.  Anyway, this resulted in my installer having to make a cable by hand (probably another $30 expense).  Grounding problems lead to a bad first try installation.

The whammy bar was/is nearly impossible to insert into the LB63 bridge.  I contacted Graphtech about this and they seemed to indicate that this is abnormal so I may have a slightly miscast bridge  (there is screw to tighten against the bar once inserted, but it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the issue).

One nagging issue is that turning the Hexpander volume knob on the guitar to "full on 10" seems to overdrive the piezo output signal no matter what the VG-99 string sensitivity is set to.  Backing off the output to about 8.5 seems to give what sounds like an output level more in line with a GK output level.  I have a FC300 and I basically treat the synth volume knob as a "set and forget" so this isn't really an issue other than it simply "should not be".

Afterthoughts:

The LB63 and "Buzz" locking nut adjustment made a huge positive difference in the sustain and overall playability of the guitar.  I would have no hesitation replacing the licensed ESP Floyds on my other guitars with the "piezoless" version of the Graphtech LB63.

While the Iommi magnetic pickup definitely sounds more detailed (and noisy) at lower gain settings, at high gain "metal" amp settings it sounds identical to the VG's Les Paul bridge humbucker (nice work Roland!).

Would I do the LB63 modification again?   Very doubtful...Unfortunately all the horrible stories you read in these forums about "piezo problems" with overly hot output, objectionably amplified handling/mechanical noises, and false triggering of the GR synth model are true.  While the guidance in these forums at working around these issues is excellent and the combination of the 1.04 OS update's piezo settings and the RMC filter board help mitigate a lot of the issues, I find myself running into issues that make me stop playing and start fiddling with the VG's settings nearly every time I use this guitar.

admin

Congratulations!

Question?

If you feed the 13 pin cable to the VG-99, and press your trem bar all the way down (dive bomb) at what point does the sound cut out?

as the strings become so  loose that zero downward pressure exists on the piezo saddles.


A2theT

Clamhands,

Thanks for the feedback as I've been contemplating a Ghost install for quite some time.  I have indeed made up my mind and I think I will build a custom axe with a floyd (as I have two lying around) and purchase a GK-Kit, as expensive as they are.  I had thought about buying a used GK-2 or 3 and dismantling them for a crude install but I'm not sure its worth the headache.  Theres always a financial tradeoff and I think sometimes we have to go the extra expense to avoid pain and suffering.

Now I just need to choose or invent a body style for this project.

Regards,
Andrew.
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

clamhands

#44
Quote from:  admsustainiac on January 19, 2010, 11:54:57 PM
Congratulations!

Question?

If you feed the 13 pin cable to the VG-99, and press your trem bar all the way down (dive bomb) at what point does the sound cut out?

as the strings become so  loose that zero downward pressure exists on the piezo saddles.



I haven't had the sound cut out during divebombs in any of my casual playing to date (I'll try to intentionally make this happen the next time I play). 

I should point out that my installer and I made a deliberate decision to keep the spring tension *very tight* on the Floyd for the first set up in hopes that we could minimize (and more easily identify) any initial Hexpander tracking problems.  The next time I get the guitar set up, I'm definately going to try the Floyd with a lower "floaty" spring tension.

clamhands

Quote from: A to the T on January 20, 2010, 07:13:58 AM
I have indeed made up my mind and I think I will build a custom axe with a floyd (as I have two lying around) and purchase a GK-Kit, as expensive as they are.

Let coupons, sales, and in store haggling be your friends :).  January and February are usually two of the worst months for retailers.  I have more than one screaming deal sitting in my home studio that I've gotten by walking into evil-big-music-retail-chain on the last day of a particulaily bad month and offering a 30-40% discount from the sticker to the store manager.  Besides...you have yet to see expensive.  I'm embarassed to admit what I spent on my LB63 + modifications + labor, but when all was said and done I think I probably spent almost 3X what I spent for the original guitar.

A2theT

the cheapest place I've found for the GK-Kit is musiciansfriend for $229 but the search is still on.
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

aliensporebomb

Have you tried the music store that does the group buy for the VG99 group here?
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

A2theT

no. good point, I'll check them out. thanx
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

cynegetic

Did you get to try the dive bomb thing? I too am curious about that.