Author Topic: SY-300- Weird noise when using another unit  (Read 211 times)

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Offline markuslee

SY-300- Weird noise when using another unit
« on: January 08, 2018, 11:26:32 AM »
I like this unit, it sounds great. However when using it with a high gain amp, I found there is a disturbing noise, (very low level) that sounds like one of the oscillators or other devices phasing though it's cycle. I've tried all the usual fixes, clean power, even isolated power supplies, ground lifts ect. Even a ABY switch. It appears the noise is coming through the ground portion of the cable. (yes I've tried multiple and new cables). To clarify the noise comes from the high gain amp. I've tried several including rack gear. the noise is there on the clean channels but much less noticeable.

My solution is to use a noise gate. But if not for this noise my systems are so quiet even with high gain I have no need for a gate.

Suggestions?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 11:42:37 AM by markuslee »

Offline Rhcole

Re: SY-300- Weird noise when using another unit
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2018, 01:24:58 AM »
Isolate and identify what might be the problem. For example, put a number of FX on the return channel and play your guitar through them. Plug straight into the return, don't use the regular input. Do you still hear the noise? If not, you are picking up something from the Oscs or other dedicated input stage.

Offline markuslee

Re: SY-300- Weird noise when using another unit
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2018, 07:06:17 AM »
I don't use the return, it's muted. I use this unit to generate synth sounds and another for guitar sounds.

Offline markuslee

Re: SY-300- Weird noise when using another unit
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2018, 07:14:40 AM »
To clarify, I have isolated that any time any unit is plug into the boss sy-300 this noise is generated through that unit (not the sy-300). I used an aby and also tried the normal thru out put on the sy-300. I've also tried it with multiple amps and rack gear using very expensive (1000.00) isolated power supplies.

Offline Brak(E)man

Re: SY-300- Weird noise when using another unit
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2018, 09:11:07 AM »
I use it with both GP-10 and with other gear such as dist , preamp but before not after
exception being GP-10 being both before and after. And a looper after.
No ground noise but I'm using two fullrange powered monitors not a high gain amp.
I think that's you're problem.
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Offline markuslee

Re: SY-300- Weird noise when using another unit
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2018, 09:46:55 AM »
NO I guess I'm not explaining this well. The high gain amp and or rack gear gets hit with either a signal from the sy through out put or via an ABY switch. Both yield the same result. Not a ground noise but a very low almost radio interference noise like one of the oscillators or effects is modulating. And if you just tough the ground portion of the input on the SY with say the tip, the noise comes through the other gear just like if it was full plugged in. The SY always hits a normal PA input. no guitar amp. And the Sy is not making the noise through it's out puts./ It is CAUSING a weird noise through the amps outputs....

Online admsustainiac

Re: SY-300- Weird noise when using another unit
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2018, 09:49:52 AM »
NO I guess I'm not explaining this well. The high gain amp and or rack gear gets hit with either a signal from the sy through out put or via an ABY switch. Both yield the same result. Not a ground noise but a very low almost radio interference noise like one of the oscillators or effects is modulating. And if you just tough the ground portion of the input on the SY with say the tip, the noise comes through the other gear just like if it was full plugged in. The SY always hits a normal PA input. no guitar amp. And the Sy is not making the noise through it's out puts./ It is CAUSING a weird noise through the amps outputs....

What you describe is a common problem with dc-to-dc switching power supplies used on Modern electronic gear
 read the ground Loop threads to solve this high pitched noise

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2078.0

It gets worse when USB is connected


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=367.0
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 11:43:48 AM by admsustainiac »

Offline markuslee

Re: SY-300- Weird noise when using another unit
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2018, 10:18:12 AM »
It just seems darn weird that I have to buy another piece of gear to get this device to work properly. This is an over site on the development of this product IMHO.....other than that it's great!

Online admsustainiac

Re: SY-300- Weird noise when using another unit
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2018, 10:34:24 AM »
It just seems darn weird that I have to buy another piece of gear to get this device to work properly. This is an over site on the development of this product IMHO.....other than that it's great!
Everyones rig is unique - and the steps to tame noises are common across most manufacturers.

although most Fractal gear has implemented special design strategies to minimize common mode noise
https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=Humbuster


also Radial  / ToneBone products are designed with minimum common mode noise
http://www.radialeng.com/r2011/images/twinline/twinline-block-diagram.pdf

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/79752/what-is-common-mode-noise

I advocate using large Battery packs to go even further to minimize noise in my live rig.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 05:16:32 PM by admsustainiac »

Offline markuslee

Re: SY-300- Weird noise when using another unit
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2018, 09:10:11 AM »
I get all this, but the issue is the SY generating the noise not from its out puts but from the other units connected to it. I use super clean power through a very expensive unit. It is obviously an oscillator or some other oscillating functions of the SY sounds that is bleeding through what seems to be the ground portion of the the units.

Like I've said I have isolated everything I can think of, different amps, using an ABY instead of the through on the SY, new different cables....ect.....

Offline gumtown

Re: SY-300- Weird noise when using another unit
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2018, 05:11:25 PM »
Have you tried grounding the SY-300 metal case?
Grounding systems can be a bit fickle in different setups,
 due to poor grounding wiring or noisy electrical systems connected to the common building electrical ground.

If you are using gear in one location (i.e. studio), a separate ground connection (into the ground with a 2~3 metre rod or similar),
 and a thick cable to a heavy copper grounding bar, for your audio equipment to connect to might help.

If you look at equipment like the SY-300, the power supply D.C. output is isolated from ground, the only way the case and effective shielding is grounded is if you are plugging audio leads into a grounded device, such as an amplifier with a grounded A.C. plug.

My second suggestion is replacing your regular guitar jack cables with some custom built ones,
 I have had much success from building my own, using balanced mic cable.
Where one conductor of the twisted pair connects the Plug tips,
 the other conductor connects the Plug shields,
 and the shield wire is connected to the shield ONE END ONLY.
The Shield is taped over at the opposite end plug.

This means the balanced pair of wires carry the signal and the twisted/balanced configuration provide good noise rejection,
 and the outer shielding is doing just that, and not carrying any signal.

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Online Shingles

Re: SY-300- Weird noise when using another unit
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2018, 02:20:15 AM »

My second suggestion is replacing your regular guitar jack cables with some custom built ones,
 I have had much success from building my own, using balanced mic cable.
Where one conductor of the twisted pair connects the Plug tips,
 the other conductor connects the Plug shields,
 and the shield wire is connected to the shield ONE END ONLY.
The Shield is taped over at the opposite end plug.

This means the balanced pair of wires carry the signal and the twisted/balanced configuration provide good noise rejection,
 and the outer shielding is doing just that, and not carrying any signal.

...and mark the end of the cable that has the shield connected. Plug that end into the piece of equipment with the better ground.
Nik
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