SY- 300- Thru/Return separated

Started by gobi, January 07, 2018, 06:38:07 AM

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gobi

Maybe I'm blind, I'm searching a way to separate the Thru/Send chain from the SY300, so I can use the Chain only.
Seems I need a separate switch to do so?
...sorry  for my bad english, i'm from germany

ElliotG

As I understand your question, you would like to turn down (off) the direct signal and use only the return signal coming back from an external effect or stomp box.  To do this click on the Thru/Rtn level box in the routing chart, and adjust the direct signal.  If your looking to do something else,let me know.

Hope that helps!
Elliot

gobi

yes, that would work, but  then I have do program it  eyerytime. There is now way to do it general? I guess I have to do it by a external switch, for example by simply switching between Sy-300 output and "Chain" output - the input could stay like it is then.

I'm planing my new experimental pedal board an try to figure out the best way to include the 300
...sorry  for my bad english, i'm from germany

ElliotG

The thru return is a patch level assignment, so yes the level could be set on a  per patch basis.  You could also assign this level to a quick knob.

Better would be to use a controller assignment set to "system" in the assignment menu.  This will work on all patches.
For example, you could use a control pedal button (CTRL 1) and set it as a system assignment.  It will then work on all patches.
You could do the same thing with an expression pedal or a MIDI controller, also set to "system" to adjust this level as well.

If you have any trouble with the assignments - let me know.

gobi

OK, thanks a lot, good idea - I'll check this
...sorry  for my bad english, i'm from germany

gobi

i set under "System" / Output / MainoutOfmod to "Synth of"
so I can still use the pedal, even if effect is of - but, yes now Ihave to program it everytime - thats ok
...sorry  for my bad english, i'm from germany

gobi

also not good, because of wrong volume. If in a patch the thru volume is smal, it stays small.

I guess, I need a seperate switch
...sorry  for my bad english, i'm from germany

ElliotG

Please share more detail on what you are trying to achieve.

Could an expression pedal controlling the mix achieve what you are after?

gobi

I'm figuring out my Pedalboard, which is kind of special....
There are a few effects in "THRU RETURN" path. If you push the ON/OFF these effects are also quiet, sometimes OK. But it would be also good to have only this chain on and the SY300 of.
In the way I tried the last time, the Cain stays in the Volume that's set by the SY300, but I need it in the normal input volume.
I'll build a switch between RETURN and SY300 out, this should work
...sorry  for my bad english, i'm from germany

gumtown

It would have been nice if the "SYNTH ON/OFF" button was more configurable, instead of Synth off or Bypass.
In the past to do the same as you want, I have either dragged the SUB OUT block into the signal chain just after the RETURN.
Or used a CTL pedal to switch/toggle the SYNTH output volume between 0 and 100.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

ElliotG

I'd suggest trying a CTL pedal, as gumtown suggested,  prior to building a switch to bypass the SY300.   It will simplify the wiring on the pedal board.

You can use CTL 2 or 3 to prototype the idea, then buy or build a switch for CTL 4 or 5 if it works out.  You can use the assigns to have the switch turn the synth volume to zero( or change the  mix) and set the return volume to 100.   I believe this will acccomplish what your looking for.

If you set the CTL to system level (VS patch level), you will only need to do it once, not on a per patch basis. 

Let me know if you need any help with setting the assignments.

gobi

in fact I didn't realised, that I could use a switch 4 and 5 ???!!

Maybe i was (to) fast as usual, and building the switch I wanted allready- well, it works! ::)
...sorry  for my bad english, i'm from germany

Elantric



tell me more about the custom aluminum box  at top center of your pedal board ?!

(inquiring minds want to know ;)

gobi

its a tube overdrive.... wiered experimental stuff first, just to understand overdriving tubes (in fact it's a complete amp)  - then i liked it so much, that it became the reason to build this board so big.... maybe i'll build a smaler version someday.
...sorry  for my bad english, i'm from germany

Elantric

Quote from: gobi on January 25, 2018, 11:30:40 AM
its a tube overdrive.... wiered experimental stuff first, just to understand overdriving tubes (in fact it's a complete amp)  - then i liked it so much, that it became the reason to build this board so big.... maybe i'll build a smaler version someday.

thanks!


And the VU meter pedal is ?

gobi

its a homemade optical compressor and also VU Meter. (well, more for fun)

In the right is the Pedal for the SY300 wich I  made from an old WAH - do you have a quick link how CTL 4 and 5 could be done? All in one cable??
...sorry  for my bad english, i'm from germany

Elantric

Quote from: gobi on January 25, 2018, 12:17:01 PM
its a homemade optical compressor and also VU Meter. (well, more for fun)

In the right is the Pedal for the SY300 wich I  made from an old WAH - do you have a quick link how CTL 4 and 5 could be done? All in one cable??

review here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=33.0

ElliotG

"do you have a quick link how CTL 4 and 5 could be done? All in one cable??"

Use a stereo 1/4" phone cable. My guess is that Tip to Sleeve is CTL4, and Ring to Sleeve is CTL 5.  I'm guessing this because a mono cable can be used if you are only going to used CTL4.   I've attached an image from page 2 of the SY300 users manual.  You would need to set the switches up as momentary switches.   The SY300 can be programmed to behave as latched or momentary - but this requires the physical switch be momentary. 
If you look at some of the boss foot switch pedals (FS-6 or FS-7) they support this kind of connection.


ElliotG

#18
Apologies for the repost... trying inline images.  I just signed up at postimage.org

Gobi - your board looks great and your compressor with VU meter is really cool! Nice Job!!!



gobi

#19
thank you boys -i'll check this! Every switch more is wellcome...
but did I get it right, one can use a pedal OR switches?
...sorry  for my bad english, i'm from germany

ElliotG

The easy answer is it should be an expression pedal OR 2 switches.  The more complex answer is yes, I think you can have both, but not use them in the same patch.  The expression pedal input connects a 10K pot between the ring and sleeve(GND), the tip is connected to the wiper.  The control inputs are momentary switches that connect the tip to sleeve or ring to sleeve. 

I assume that if you put in a switch to open the circuit (take the resistor out of the circuit), then you could use the 2 control switches.  Using CTRL 4/5 and the expression pedal in the same patch would likely be problematic because the heel position of the expression pedal shorts the tip to the sleeve(GND), the same as pushing a CTL switch.

An alternative to expand the number of switches (and expression pedals) would be to move to MIDI.   I've been looking at the Keith McMillen Instruments  Softstep.  https://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/softstep/  I like how each of the footpads can be used as a switch or two expression pedals. This will also require the KMI midi expander to connect directly to the SY300.  There are a lots of other MIDI foot controllers.

gobi

i'm realy a litte bit confused...

Quote from: ElliotG on January 26, 2018, 05:53:01 AM
  Using CTRL 4/5 and the expression pedal in the same patch would likely be problematic because the heel position of the expression pedal shorts the tip to the sleeve(GND), the same as pushing a CTL switch.

in this example, could'nt i say : heel position of the Pedal IS the switch?
...sorry  for my bad english, i'm from germany

ElliotG

Quote from: gobi on January 26, 2018, 09:06:31 AM
i'm realy a litte bit confused...

in this example, could'nt i say : heel position of the Pedal IS the switch?

I think you could.  I don't know the position of the expression pedal where the switch would be considered open.  It would be an interesting experiment. 

I'm concerned that the interaction of the EXP assigns and the CTL assigns make it impractical.  That is, moving to the heel position simultaneously triggers the CTL, and changes the expression pedal if both functions are enabled in the same patch.  If you needed to move to the toe position to turn off the CTL, that would required a full swing on the exp pedal. 

The exp pedal has 3 assigns, you can do a lot with 3 assigns, without needing to overlap the EXP and CTL.
 
If at the patch level you choose to utilize either the EXP pedal or CTL 4/5; and have a corresponding HW switch that selects between the expression pedal or 2 switches it feels like a solution that better maps to the SY300 implementation.