Vibrato: Bigsby/Vibramate vs. Stetsbar vs. ABM 5600 Les Trem etc

Started by Now_And_Then, July 26, 2014, 10:32:17 AM

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Now_And_Then

 I have a hard-tail Gibson ES-335 Studio that I am modifying (in such a way that the mods must all be reversible). Besides swapping the stock humbuckers for Gibson P-94's, I very much want to put a vibrato bar on it. I feel sort of lost without it.

I have the following requirements: it must be a drop-in replacement.

I am considering a Bigsby B7 with a Vibramate v7-335, a Stetsbar, or an ABM 5600-C Les Trem. These are all roughly in the same price tier: $190 - $220. They all seem to be drop-in replacements for the stop-tailpiece currently on the guitar. I don't divebomb and generally use vibrato in a fairly subtle manner. In that respect the Bigsby is sufficient and the others give me more vibrato range than I would use. (That I have Bigsbies or Bigsby-style devices on other guitars is also a point in its favor.) But I am concerned about keeping the guitar in tune too without needing to further modify the guitar. And of course I am interested in knowing if there is anything better than what I am either using or considering.

Has anyone got any opinions on the devices which I have mentioned, or other vibrato bars to suggest?

LinzHenderson

I put a Duesenberg Les Trem on my LP copy and really liked it. It was stable and worked pretty well, but it was just a bit too big for me to get used to. I love Bisgbys, but the Les Trem was (literally) a 2 minute install and completely reversible. To be fair, I don't think it was any bigger than a Bigsby, it just didn't quite suit the guitar.

Got mine here - http://www.thomann.de/gb/duesenberg_les_trem_ii_chrome_tm85c.htm

Elantric

I've tried Vibramate , Stetsbar, ,Les Trem, and I agree with Linz Henderson, try a Duesenberg/Rockinger Les Trem II. I also have one on an ES335, and the Les Trem II works well. 100% reversible

Duesenberg Les Trem II
http://www.rockinger.com/index.php?cat=WG073&lang=eng&product=3667C%2F3667G


Light weight version of the standard Les Trem. Fits for Gibson-style guitars. No routing and no drilling required. Mounting accessories included.

Now_And_Then


Okay, I'm going to get a Duesenberg Les Trem. Very reasonably priced too, even after the exorbitant shipping charges.

Thanks for the replies!



GovernorSilver

I had a Reverend Club King with a Les Trem.  Loved the smooth feel.  The only downside was it required drilling - good for them the design has been improved to make it reversible.

Now_And_Then

Quote from: GovernorSilver on July 28, 2014, 12:31:58 PM
I had a Reverend Club King with a Les Trem.  Loved the smooth feel.  The only downside was it required drilling - good for them the design has been improved to make it reversible.

That would be an ABM 5600-C Les Trem and not a Duesenberg Les Trem?

Elantric

QuoteThat would be an ABM 5600-C Les Trem and not a Duesenberg Les Trem?

The old original Rockinger Les Trem is here -

http://www.rockinger.com/index.php?cat=WG073&lang=eng&product=1604C%2F1604G


A Variation sold by ABM-Mueller is also sold by AllParts as "ABM-5600-C-Les-Tremolo-Chrome-Tailpiece"

http://www.abm-mueller.com/index2.html


http://www.abm-mueller.com/PDF/Preisliste_2014.pdf


( @ $295 is way overpriced IMHO - used to be able to get these on Ebay all day for $86 back in 2009 )
http://www.allparts.com/TP-5425-010-ABM-5600-C-Les-Tremolo-Chrome-Tailpiece_p_4271.html
QuoteThe Les Trem works really well as I have purchased several over the years placing them on most of my guitars including a Gibson LPDC. They are a direct bolt on so no mods are required and heavily recommend using a roller bridge and consider locking tuner keys with them to eliminate tuning issues. Wow, I remember paying $86.00 for the chrome and $120.00 for the gold back then.


Either version of the above two models were often used on many Reverend Guitars circa 2009 ( they were supplied as a free upgrade so owners could swap out the stop tailpiece and convert to tremolo)
http://www.reverendguitars.com/support/faq/les-trem-instructions/


(Old discussion thread with more trivia on the "Les Trem"
http://forum.reverendguitars.com/les-trem_topic12161_page1.html


The new Les Trem II (see below)is an updated version that requires no drilling ( and is only 97 Euros ($130 USD) shipped direct from Duesenberg / Rockinger ( Germany)
Duesenberg Les Trem II
http://www.rockinger.com/index.php?cat=WG073&lang=eng&product=3667C%2F3667G

Now_And_Then


It's a problem having two different products with essentially the same name! 

I got an email reply from Rockinger today and their price is less than Thomann's - mainly because shipping to the US is 20 Euros, not 30.

The ABM 5600 Les Trem is available on eBay for $197 instead of Allparts' incredible $295 - or else I would not have even considered it for an instant. I read (don't now recall the site) a very negative review of the 5600, calling it poorly made and poorly engineered. But that's immaterial to me at the moment as I will go with the item from Rockinger. (For anyone interested, it is possible to get a ABM 5600 Les Trem Gold for 111 Euros on the ABM site if you go to http://www.abm-mueller.com/ and look at their Special Summer Sale pdf.)

Why would I choose either chrome or nickel in preference to the other? They're both, you know, silver...

Elantric

Quote(For anyone interested, it is possible to get a ABM 5600 Les Trem Gold for 111 Euros on the ABM site if you go to http://www.abm-mueller.com/ and look at their Special Summer Sale pdf.)
http://www.abm-mueller.com/PDF/Sales%20for%20All.pdf
Rockinger also has remaining stock of the original Les Trem version in Gold too. (159 Euros)
http://www.rockinger.com/index.php?cat=WG073&product=1604C%2F1604G


QuoteI got an email reply from Rockinger today and their price is less than Thomann's - mainly because shipping to the US is 20 Euros, not 30.

I just ordered a 2nd Les Trem II for my 2013 Gibson SG - (removing the rejected Stetsbar which is just too fiddly, and looses too much sustain of the guitar) 
Duesenberg Les Trem II
http://www.rockinger.com/index.php?cat=WG073&lang=eng&product=3667C%2F3667G

Nickel is always my #1 choice - this is the same finish used on most pre 1966 USA guitars and holds up best in the long run.


Compare  "Chrome" hardware - (often Chrome just looks cheap to me.)


By contrast "Nickel" hardware looks more elegant, vintage and proper to me (based upon my 45 years of playing all makes and models )

Here is a good example of Nickel hardware (below)


 

Now_And_Then


The matte finish of the nickel looks really nice but I suppose that I will need to get the chrome in order to match the bridge that's there now. (Unless I feel like replacing the bridge which I don't.)

jerrycali

I put a Stetsbar on one of my tele's and it is the smoothest wang bar ever - stays in tune even with" floyd like " strings off the fretboard  dive bombs

Elantric

For me - my #1 complaint with Stetsbar is it significantly reduced the sustain on my Gibson SG   - its due to that floating bridge that is decoupled from the main guitar body



- I've since replaced the Stetsbar with the Rockinger / Duesenberg "Les Trem II -and reinstaled the stock Gibson T.O.M Bridge, I'm much happier! I have all the sustain of a stock  SG with stop tailpiece, and the  Les Trem II installation is 100% reversible.



Duesenberg Les Trem II
http://www.rockinger.com/index.php?cat=WG073&lang=eng&product=3667C%2F3667G

and I'm using a high tension spring from my GFS X-Trem, to minimize the open strings going flat during double stop string bending

aure

I know this is old thread, but I just wanted to say that the Stetsbar tremolo does not fit well on a Roland Ready Strat.  Apparently the pickguard cutout for the trem is slightly smaller than a normal pickguard.  At least mine was, so I had to return the Stetsbar.  Although given the negative review from Elantric, maybe that's for the best.  I just want a vibrato that does not go out of tune on compound bends and can be combined with a Tronical Tuner.  Is that too much to ask?  Any recommendations?  At this point I may just block out my original trem.

aure

I just saw on another thread the Don Ramsay tremolo, looks like a winner.

Guido81

Quote from: Elantric on August 12, 2014, 11:23:23 AM
- I've since replaced the Stetsbar with the Rockinger / Duesenberg "Les Trem II -and reinstaled the stock Gibson T.O.M Bridge, I'm much happier! I have all the sustain of a stock  SG with stop tailpiece, and the  Les Trem II installation is 100% reversible.


Sorry to post in an old thread, just wanted to know how long is the range of the les trem, I know you can do dive bombs like other trems, but it seems like you can pull the arm too and raise the notes, how much? 2 tones maybe? (similar to floyd rose, but not with the same range of course) Elantric?

Elantric

Quote from: Guido81 on October 25, 2017, 08:38:45 AM
Sorry to post in an old thread, just wanted to know how long is the range of the les trem, I know you can do dive bombs like other trems, but it seems like you can pull the arm too and raise the notes, how much? 2 tones maybe? (similar to floyd rose, but not with the same range of course) Elantric?

On Les Trem - you can raise the bar approx one whole note - but any more than that  - its like a Bigsby, the uncompressed Spring can easily fall off the guitar if the bar is raised too far

Guido81

QuoteOn Les Trem - you can raise the bar approx one whole note - but any more than that  - its like a Bigsby, the uncompressed Spring can easily fall off the guitar if the bar is raised too far

Thanks! That's helpful.
Nobody wants to see that spring falling for sure  ;D

I'll install one in my les paul