GK-13 Pin Cable FAQ

Started by Elantric, November 19, 2008, 11:44:28 AM

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creart

I took the plunge... made the plug pretty wet with fluid an plugged in several times...
Seems to be a WHOLE lot better!!!!!!!
Thanx guys!

Now only if I can find a similar solution for the EXP switch problem I have... which is:
after the pedal is calibrated it works good for a while, then suddenly it seems the threshold for the EXP switch seems totally gone (although when I go to calibration, the value is still there..)
It can either be over-sensitive, so just moving the pedal will switch EXP on or off or under-sensitive so it won't allow me to switch  even kicking it like a mule (sort of)

Do you guys have any idea of what could cause that????

Anyway - thanks for the (repeated) heads-on for the deoxi...

cheers
Hans

Toby Krebs

Re: EXP pedal problem. Is your GR55 updated? Mine seemed to get better along with a bunch of other quirky things after I updated mine. I use the EXP pedal wah and volume a lot and sometimes it seems a little sensitive but it doesn't bother me too much.  My GT-10 on the other hand requires me to put my whole weight on it to get it to work because the digital pot is worn out. Need to replace it but wont until I am using it a lot.

creart

Hi Toby - ya it has the latest software...
The switch is not reliable enough - I haven't had any gigs for quite some time, being with a new band and still in practicing stage, but I could not really rely on it....
That's why I'm trying to use the FCB1010 (http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/FCB1010.aspx) to control the GR.

I have set up one pedal as volume and the other as the EXP pedal...
problem so far is that I can not send system exclusives from the FCB.
Apparently the little sysex capabilities that were once in the UnO chip, have been taken out because it could only handle 7 bytes of sysex which in most cases - as with the GR - would not be enough.
Now I would need to get an upgrade board for the FCB (http://www.lg-fcb.com/lgfcb_board.php) which will set me back 200 euros.

But with that upgrade I could fully take over the GR from the outside so I wouldn't need to worry about switches not working properly anymore....
On the FCB
- bank switching is a lot easier, there are separate UP and DOWN switches
- more selectable patches per bank (normally 10 per bank, although with the UnO chip I've got it in 'stomp mode' so 5 buttons are global stomp buttons to directly switch an effect on or off..

But indeed... I would need that upgrade board and good SysEx docs to 'take over' the GR, because at the moment the 8 assignments for midi are not enough to switch everything.
The GR's EXP and CTL switching capabilities are quite good so if I can take over that control from the outside, putting each under a FCB stomp, I'm covered :-)

cheers
Hans


Elantric

#103

gumbo

Quote from:  Elantric on October 14, 2013, 05:21:46 AM
Yes - Main problem is the lack of adequate robust ground connection.

Remember the only ground connection is the large round DIN Plug shell. 

The main culprit in video below is that tiny "finger" contact for the shell on the female jacks disconnecting intermittently from the male Plug's Ground Shell anytime the plug is wiggled and moved.




As Elantric says, the standard Roland jack's only ground connection is where the plug's locking pawl contacts the metal strip inserted across the plastic body of the jack.

It was a specific problem that I addressed when I developed my after-market Synth-Linx jack -- in my unit, the locking pawl of the plug engages with the outer metal body of the jack (only the centre portion is plastic), plus there is an internal 'tab' that exerts positive pressure on the INSIDE of the metal shell of the plug, to positively maintain contact.

More information about the product is at:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8888.0

(end of shameless self-promotion)   ;)


Regards,
gumbo
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

Mrchevy

Creart, don't be afraid to soak that thing. It wont hurt it. Spray inside and out, let soak a few minutes, soak it again, all the time working the plugs IN and OUT not back and forth. I think your worry is shorting it out but that stuff is meant for that purpose and as always you should let it dry out before power is turned on. You can also get a can of CANNED AIR to blow it out afterwards, it wont hurt to speed up the drying process. Air from a compressor is not a good idea as they usually will introduce moisture from the tank. Both items should be readily available at any electronics store
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

Toby Krebs

Yeah! Soak It Baby! Soak It!!!

creart

@elantric - thanks - I'll try to do a better job of searching the forum - it is indeed a LOT of available info, but being used to 'browsing/scanning' I apparently take too little time to thoroughly search for items - thanx!

@gumbo - thanks will have a closer look and think about it... but it's just the chassis right? you don't deliver 'improved plugs ? :-)

@Mrchevy and @Toby Krebs
You guys are right (actually all talking about deOxi) - just soak it!!!! :-)
And ya, I was worried, but the noise was getting so annoying that I didn't care anymore and now I'm SOOOOO glad I did it...
I can just pick up my guitar and place it back again without the noise!!! Great - almost like having a new guitar again :-)

cheers
Hans

gumbo

Quote from:  creart on October 16, 2013, 12:26:41 AM


@gumbo - thanks will have a closer look and think about it... but it's just the chassis right? you don't deliver 'improved plugs ? :-)



cheers
Hans

Hi Hans..

Yep, I'm just making Jacks at this point..  ;)
..but Jacks that fit the standard 'plugs' a whole lot better..
This became almost a 'by-product' of redesigning aspects of a Jack that would be easier to fit to an instrument or mount to a chassis than the ones supplied by the manufacturer..   :D

By all means PM me if you want / need to discuss any of these issues further.

Kind regards from Australia,
Peter (gumbo)
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

Toby Krebs

#109
Quote
@elantric - thanks - I'll try to do a better job of searching the forum - it is indeed a LOT of available info, but being used to 'browsing/scanning' I apparently take too little time to thoroughly search for items - thanx!

@gumbo - thanks will have a closer look and think about it... but it's just the chassis right? you don't deliver 'improved plugs ? :-)

@Mrchevy and @Toby Krebs
You guys are right (actually all talking about deOxi) - just soak it!!!! :-)
And ya, I was worried, but the noise was getting so annoying that I didn't care anymore and now I'm SOOOOO glad I did it...
I can just pick up my guitar and place it back again without the noise!!! Great - almost like having a new guitar again :-)

cheers
Hans


   Glad it has improved things for you. I have drilled holes and installed effect loops in both my GR55s-replaced capacitors in my Marshall and other amps- milled and refretted the necks on most of my guitars-changed pickups and added EMG boost circuits to them- shot freon into my cars and RVs' air conditioning system etc....etc... and I am still alive LOL!!! Don't be afraid to get your hands dirty with any of this music gear stuff. It can't hurt you unless you do something stupid and it's a hell of as lot of fun. I have days when I would rather work on my gear than play it!

creart

@gumbo - I'll keep it in mind... don't really know how 'ready' I am to go and change everything... will probably depend on how much trouble the current plug/chassis will give me in the near future.. thanks Peter!

@toby - ya strangely enough I seem to leave my guitars alone when it comes to drilling etc. :) In the past I would probably have picked up a hammer to have a healthy discussion with the GR in an earlier stage :D... I must be getting old LOL

cheers
Hans


Toby Krebs

"Drill Baby Drill"-Sarah Palin

MikeTranch

I recently ordered this one from UneekSupply.com, and so far I'm happy with it:

http://tinyurl.com/mck4sux

I believe I first saw item this posted in another section.  It's 10 feet, perfect for sitting, and the cable is thinner and lighter.  I prepped it per the tips here and so far so good.

Ari

Hey, my roland cable broke, and replaced it with a 13 pin from uneek supply. Im running a Roland-Fender GC1. My A string does not send signal to the GR-55 now, could be it was from before, but I think all 6 were functional at the time. I know elantric or gumtown mentioned something about the 13 pins from aftermarket being wired wrong. Anyone have this problem or is it something else (I HOPE NOT THE PICKUP)...Ari

Elantric

#114
Sounds like a bad cable - I carry at least 4

read
How to prepare  and maintain your 13 pin GK cable
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3132.msg20110#msg20110

Ari


Elantric


Ari

missed the "prepare" part-thanks elantric!

Elantric

Also read

www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1584.50

today Best - Tronics sells a quality 13 pin cable for $44

CodeSmart

Hi Ari (Ari sounds Finnish to me, Hyvää Päivää  ;D)
You should always have at least 2 cables. You need to isolate the problem. With a second cable you know if the cable is ok or not ( a second cable is good the have anyhow). If its not the cable it's either the guitar connector or the synth connector. To separate this you need a second GK guitar( a second GK guitar is good to have anyhow ;)
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

gumtown

#120
It was inevitable, I have used the same GK cable for over 5 years, luckily I have always had a new backup cable on hand.
The gig sound check went fine, but halfway into the first song of the gig, my tone suddenly took a dive.

While still trying to play the first song, in between holding improved sustained notes, using a free hand to wiggle amp speaker cable, input cable, and turning the volume up to max to 'get by'.
That worked for the next song, then into the third one, the volume dropped again, now to nothing.
A frantic unplug of the GK cable at the bass end did nothing, but at the GR-55 end, suddenly "full volume - with vengeance", no volume, full volume,... and on and on, intermittent cutting in/out/in/out.
At last I found the problem, I quick cable change and I was away again.

The first bit of equipment malfunction I have had in many years.
The whole experience left me 'on edge' for the rest of the gig..

Time to order a new GK cable.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

sixeight

Nightmare. I have been going for many years without failure. But you never know when disaster strikes...

piezo

#122
(It's always nice to disagree upon first meeting, don't you think?)

This forum seems both trustworthy and comprehensive on Gk things, and I would not dare challenge Elantrics' or any other forum members' knowledge.
But, based on hands-on investigation, I must disagree on the supposedly bad ground connection of the connector's circular shell to the female input.

Starting off, the following view on the supposedly "flaky" ground contact is not correct in my opinion:
Quote from: Elantric on February 12, 2011, 01:21:46 AM
The "achilles heel" weakest link is the tiny mating electrical contact finger for the large round Shell  'Ground" connection on the female 13 pin jacks on your guitar, GK-3 or  VG-99, GR-55. If this important electrical connection is flaky - you will have problems just as you are currently experiencing ! (see yellow circle below)


This suggests the ground contact is through the locking pin or circular shell contacting the inputs' chassis only. But close inspection with good lighting will reveal that there are also two spring contacts on the female input. On the GK-2a these are opposite the locking pin, and are one with the PCB's two solder joints for ground. On the GR-33 they are on the locking pin side, also one with the ground solder joints.
While at some point these two contacts may get corroded enough to suggest a bad ground contact, they press the shell of the connector hard enough to become "scraped" every time a plug is inserted.

Ofcourse I've had my share of Gk cable issues, too. Mostly crackles, noise and simultaneous erratic triggering when moving an older cable. And over the years I have tried several - and sometimes odd - methods to get rid of the cable noise, thinking it was caused by build-up of galvanic voltages/ static charges.

The only method that worked for a short while was vigorous stretching, bending or rolling of the cable, mostly near the connectors, as Eight_Stringer mentioned also.
And sometimes - but mostly not - applying contact cleaner.

Then, when I experienced failing leads in 2 of my older Gk cables (pins 5 and 10 respectively), I disassembled the seemingly vulnerable connectors of the failing pin 5 cable, that being completely useless anyway.

Then I found out what is the main cause of the noise issue and erratic triggering: Bad electrical contact between the braided cable shield and the 13 pin connector. The copper braid is simply CLAMPED to the connector, the clamp acting as both strain relief and ground contact. After some time this connection will have corroded and maybe also worked itself slightly loose.
This explains why stretching a cable near the connector may do away with the noisyness for a while. And why spraying will work occasionally, namely only when the spray reaches the corroded clamp-and-shield in the rear of the connector and both connector AND cable are manipulated to "scrape" off corrosion/residu.

Moreover, I came to think that my earlier stretching activities were probably the cause of the failing pin 5 and 10 leads, since the solder connections to the pins were still OK.
So I won't stretch no more ....

Then I disassembled the other cable's connectors and SOLDERED the braided shield to the clamp.
The result: haven't heard a single cable noise, erratic trigger or crackle since!

This also makes converting pin 9 into an extra ground connection unneccesary, so it would still be available as a spare for whatever we would like it to be.

The other thing I noticed, is the pins fitting in the connector being pretty loose. I don't know yet if this may also be a source of intermiitent contact.
But to prevent any unwanted triggering by bad pin contact I lock the cable between the guitar body and strap, like I would do with any regular guitar cord.

PS And by carefully positioning a cable bend and locking it into position with gaffer tape I even got my pin 10 connection functional again (for home use).

Any disagreeing views on my diagreeing view are welcome!


Majiken

Hi, please excuse me as I am an electrical novice: is the simply clamped braiding in the cable or the connector on the guitar/GK3 or 2 or whatever? If the cable, I wonder how folks like Gittler, DPA etc. are addressing it?
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Elantric

#124
tTo member "Piezo",
Excellent Analysis in your 1st post -  Thanks for your input.