VG-99 dies

Started by jon_bondy, June 03, 2013, 06:18:27 AM

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jon_bondy

#25
I opened up the back, and the thing is as pristine as when it was manufactured.  Immaculate.  Not a clue about what might be wrong.

There are a few daughter boards, but this really is a one-board system. Given that the thing sells for $1,500, it is not surprising that they might want $900 for a new main board.

I'll buy another used VG-99.  If one of you really thinks you can repair mine, I'd be happy to ship it to you.  The way the thing slowly died makes me think that some chip has failed.  ALMOST everything works.  All displays are immaculate. Switches all work.  Lights all work.  It is the signal processor that seems to be dead.

jon_bondy

I assume that the original deal by which many of us purchased our original VG-99s is no longer available...

Elantric

#27
QuoteI assume that the original deal by which many of us purchased our original VG-99s is no longer available...

True - it ended March 2013 btw.
In fact the only "new" VG-99's available today are sourced by existing Roland Dealer inventory Stock.

No "new" VG-99's or VB-99's   exist for Dealers to order from Roland US
This thread covers this fact the VG-99 is currently "out of production"
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6083.msg60440#msg60440


--
Elantric wrote on April 26, 2013, 10:11:09 AM »>
I just re-checked -
Its true the Roland VG-99 is now gone and only "new" units available are existing inventory.

Maybe Musicians Friend may have a Memorial Day 2013 blow out sale?

I suggest bookmark this and check daily
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/roland-vg-99-v-guitar-multi-effects-processor-system


When I asked a regional Roland sales rep will there be a new VG-100 this year?:
the response was

Quote" Not at this time Please remind the dealer that Roland has had a VG on the market since 1995 and that we are due for a new one..."

I figure Winter NAMM 2014
[/i]

Elantric

There is a "gently used" VG-99 for $1199 here at MF
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/roland-vg-99-v-guitar-multi-effects-processor-system?condition=used

This product shows a few minor signs of use and generally is equivalent to a retail demo unit. The manufacturer's warranty has expired, but this item is covered by our 30-day 100% Satisfaction Guarantee.

bbob

Quote from: jon_bondy on June 06, 2013, 03:00:50 PM
I assume that the original deal by which many of us purchased our original VG-99s is no longer available...

Jon, sent you a PM.

Bob

datsunrobbie


Toby Krebs

Yup and they are returnable. I have taken back a few used things to GC. No problems.

Brent Flash

I have not read all the previous post in detail and don't know if anyone suggested this yet or not but did you try another power supply or at least check the voltage of the power supply. Some of what I have read seems to indicate a possible low or changing power problem.

aliensporebomb

#33
I considered this too.  I see a lot of laptop power supplies get marginal or fail and the VG99 PSU reminds me of a tiny laptop PSU. 
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

jon_bondy

Thanks for everyone's helpful and thoughtful comments, and support.  You guys have been really great!

So.  It is working again.

This is my theory about what happened.

Somehow, at the gig, the memory began to be corrupted.  I say this because the patches began to die slowly and individually.  Eventually, all of the patches failed in the same way, but it took hours for the failures to spread to engulf all of the patches.

I then reset the VG-99 to factory specs.  What I had forgotten was that, after the reset, I had to change the [System, GK, GK Connect] setting from "Auto" to "On". Once I made that change, yesterday, everything started working again.

What confused the issue was that the symptoms after the factory reset were the same as during the original failure: some patches could be vaguely heard way off in the distance, but most patches were silent.  Since the symptoms did not change between the original failure and the factory reset, I assumed that the unit was actually dead after the factory reset.  Actually, after the factory reset I "lost" the Tuner.  Rather than remembering the above setting, I just assumed that the unit had failed hard.  Silly me.

I know that I did not accidentally change the [System, GK, GK Connect] setting, so something must have been getting corrupted at the start.  And since the patches originally failed one at a time, this would not have been explained by an incorrect [System, GK, GK Connect] setting.

Anyway. Bottom line is that the unit is working fine again.  Not sure what the lesson learned might be.

Thanks again!

rolandvg99

Quote from: jon_bondy on June 09, 2013, 08:32:29 AM
Thanks for everyone's helpful and thoughtful comments, and support.  You guys have been really great!

So.  It is working again.

This is my theory about what happened.

Somehow, at the gig, the memory began to be corrupted.  I say this because the patches began to die slowly and individually.  Eventually, all of the patches failed in the same way, but it took hours for the failures to spread to engulf all of the patches.

I then reset the VG-99 to factory specs.  What I had forgotten was that, after the reset, I had to change the [System, GK, GK Connect] setting from "Auto" to "On". Once I made that change, yesterday, everything started working again.

What confused the issue was that the symptoms after the factory reset were the same as during the original failure: some patches could be vaguely heard way off in the distance, but most patches were silent.  Since the symptoms did not change between the original failure and the factory reset, I assumed that the unit was actually dead after the factory reset.  Actually, after the factory reset I "lost" the Tuner.  Rather than remembering the above setting, I just assumed that the unit had failed hard.  Silly me.

I know that I did not accidentally change the [System, GK, GK Connect] setting, so something must have been getting corrupted at the start.  And since the patches originally failed one at a time, this would not have been explained by an incorrect [System, GK, GK Connect] setting.

Anyway. Bottom line is that the unit is working fine again.  Not sure what the lesson learned might be.

Thanks again!

Nothing beats a good revival story. Makes me happy. Congrats.  ;D
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

Elantric


aliensporebomb

Wow!  Bravo!  Great news!
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Toby Krebs

YES!!! That's what I'm talkin' about!!! I know how hard these things are to kill. My GR33 had a power supply jack and output jack problem a few years ago. It became unusable which was a huge problem for me as I had never purchased another unit.It had been dragged all over in heat/cold/dust etc... and not treated well. I was so busy at the time I took it to the old electronics guy here who had been servicing my Marshall and other tube amps for me for many years. After he repaired it and gave it back to me he said "I don't know how this thing can still work. I've never seen an electronic device with so many circuit board cracks still functioning.You had better get something else son". This was about 4 years before the GR20 was released. I recently used a heat gun to reflow all the solder on that unit(I have 2 of them) and it still works PERFECTLY!. Despite some of the things we don't like about Rolands UI etc....these things are as tough as nails and unlike anything else available. I am in the process of aquiring another GR55 while I beat the crap out of the one I am using now. We don't need no stinkin' back up! Long Live The VG-99!!!

vanceg

I blew up my main VG-99 a couple of days ago.  I know this happened while STUPIDLY messing around with faulty wiring in my 19 pin to 13pin converter (I use a 19pin connector from my guitar because it is VERY sturdy, then I convert that 19pin to 13pin in a break out box).  My breakout box seemed to have a faulty connection so, like a dummy, I was in there wiggling cables looking for the faulty one WHILE I had the 13 pin connected to the VG-99.   

Suddenly, I had no output at all from the VG-99.  nothing out of the Headphone out, Nothing out of the XLR or the TRS outputs. 

Everything else seems to work:  I see my input levels on the meters, I see output levels on my meters, I can even get the unit to send signal via USB to my computer and when I listen to the sound I record into my computer via USB, it sounds just fine.  But, no analog outputs (I haven't tested digital yet).

A "sniff test" revealed that, indeed, SOMEthing burned.   I opened the unit up and I don't SEE anything burned. I don't have my volt meter where I am (on an island at the moment)...so I can't do any real investigation... but it sure seems like I totally messed up my main VG-99.

FORTUNATELY, at home, I have a backup unit. 

I'm hoping that it's just the "jack board" as it is small, easy to replace, and only $90 from Roland.  But I am pretty sure that the problem is on the main board because the USB (which IS on the jack board) is working fine, and the XLR (which is on yet a different board) is not working, and, there are virtually no parts to blow up on the jack board. 

The main board retail cost is $690!  They did then quote me a much lower price, but it's still high enough that buying a $500-$600 used VG-99 might still be a better idea as it will take a little work to swap boards out and... what if I have another issue that I haven't discovered yet?

Damn, Damn, Damn.   How in the WORLD did I blow up the outputs while messing with the Input cables?  Big dummy.

I called Rolland and they quoted me a much lower price

Elantric

#40
Sad news!

Its probably either the +7VDC or -7VDC Supply burned out - these are on GK13 pins 12 & 13

Service notes
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28.0;attach=965

vanceg

Quote from: Elantric on July 08, 2015, 11:14:32 AM
Sad news!

Its probably either the +7VDC or -7VDC Supply burned out - these are on GK13 pins 12 & 13

Service notes
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28.0;attach=965

That's an interesting thought.  But - the 7V powers the GK-3, does it not?  The odd thing is: I'm getting good input into the VG-99!  I'm even seeing good output via USB.   I wish I had my meter here because I could check the 7V. 

As an aside - The guitar I was using this with doesn't use a GK-3 - I have an Aescher hex magnetic pickup on it which I've been experimenting with as a GK-3 replacement.  It surely has NOTHING to do with this failure (there really isn't any conceivable way it could) but it also doesn't use the 7V... it sounds FANTASTIC and I actually think there is an audible improvement in the COSM sounds when I use it instead of a GK-3. 

Elantric

#42
QuoteThat's an interesting thought.  But - the 7V powers the GK-3, does it not?  The odd thing is: I'm getting good input into the VG-99!  I'm even seeing good output via USB.   I wish I had my meter here because I could check the 7V. 

The entire internal Analog Audio Signal path ( i.e. every internal Op Amp IC) runs on these same  +7VDC &  -7VDC  supply rails.

If either Power supply rail goes down (as could occur if either gets accidentally momentarily shorted to Ground at the GK13  "GK IN" jack or connected cable or connected Hex PU Guitar ) , the VG-99 will have a burnt smell,  still appear to work, but you get no sound

vanceg

THis sounds like EXACTLY what happened.  So the 7V that is send up the 13 pin cable is the actual SAME power that the Analog signal path is running on INTERNAL to the VG-99.  Dang.  That seems 'dangerous'.  And it is almost surely the problem that I caused by my STUPIDLY working on wiring while plugged in.

Quote from: Elantric on July 08, 2015, 11:36:48 AM
The entire internal Analog Audio Signal path ( i.e. every internal Op Amp IC) runs on these same  +7VDC &  -7VDC  supply rails.

If either Power supply rail goes down (as could occur if either gets accidentally momentarily shorted to Ground at the GK13  "GK IN" jack or connected cable or connected Hex PU Guitar ) , the VG-99 will have a burnt smell,  still appear to work, but you get no sound


Elantric

QuoteSo, wouldn't this mean that if a 13pin cable was shorted out that the VG-99 board would blow?  That's basically what we believe happened here.  That seems like not such a great design decision

100% correct!

Thats why you MUST be careful and not force the DIN13 plug into the GK IN jack.

and remember never make a connection with the Roland/Boss/Antares/Axon GK13 pin Processor " powered "ON ".

The entire internal Analog Audio Signal path ( i.e. every internal Op Amp IC) runs on these same  +7VDC &  -7VDC  supply rails.

If either Power supply rail goes down (as could occur if either gets accidentally momentarily shorted to Ground at the GK13  "GK IN" jack or connected cable or connected Hex PU Guitar ) , the GK13 pin Processor (VG-8,VG-88,VG-99,GR-55, GP-10, etc) will have a burnt smell,  still appear to work, but you get no sound


mooncaine

omigosh, i am so glad you repeated this warning because i have been so lax and got into the habit of unplugging GK guitars without turning off my VG-99. Done it for years. Won't do it now.

vanceg

A quick update:  I ordered a new main board for the VG-99 from Roland.  ~$270.  It took 2 weeks to arrive but it's here.  I haven't had a chance to replace it yet as I'm just about to go on tour and need to just focus on using my backup unit (yes, i purchased a second VG-99 because it's THAT important to me)  for the moment.  As soon as I get back (early September) I'll replace the motherboard and let you all know how it went. 

Headless68

I didnt realise the risk of swapping while on & like Jon have been doing that for years - at home thats not a problem to power down but live I sometimes switch guitars and power down would be a real pain - need to give that some thought

aliensporebomb

I'll be curious if any of the DSP chips in the VG-99 motherboard are easily identifiable or if Roland has put their brand on them.  I was curious if it was using sharc dsps or the like.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Elantric

QuoteI'll be curious if any of the DSP chips in the VG-99 motherboard are easily identifiable or if Roland has put their brand on them.  I was curious if it was using sharc dsps or the like.

They stamp "Roland" on all the DSPs

See the service manual
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28.0;attach=965