ATG-1. Let me see if I got this right.

Started by Big Jim, May 20, 2017, 12:00:35 AM

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Big Jim

So the ATG-1 only does guitar modeling. Albeit really good guitar modeling but that's it. No effects, no amps. And all those videos on youtube where the guy steps on a button and goes from a screaming lead guitar to a beautiful acoustic, is all done with "off board" effects (that you can't see in the videos).

And the 13 pin out doesn't pass the ATG-1 signal to the next system. It is basically a 13 pin true bypass. And, on top of all that, ATG-1 negates my mag pups from the system.

None of the needed software to update the firmware is compatible with my midisport 1x1 unless I'm running it on a windows 7 OS.
Does that about sum it up? am I missing anything? I have had this thing for 7 days and I am so disappointed.

admin


BBach

You sort of dismissed the solid tune and alt turnings instantly accessible via fottswitch or midi cc#s or program change. If you have the lapsteel feature pack, you can morph between the preset tune a tuning of your choice. (Only from the unit foot pedal, not midi). The midi implantation is really bizarre and seems like a blatant violation of the midi spec. The tuning stuff is kind of the point. You can still use your regular mag pick ups and bypass the ATG-1 altogether. The mono or stereo outs would get processed the same way a regular guitar output would. Sounds like you want a VG-99, or GP-10 or GR55.

mooncaine

Hmm, well, it does seem kinda bone-headed to pass the non-Auto-Tuned signal thru the 13-pin output, or to offer the option. I mean, Auto-Tune is the point of the thing, so why the hell would you want to have the signal that's not in tune with it, to mix it?

Sorta like making a guitar synth that doesn't receive MIDI pitch bend. That's just idiotic.

Big Jim

I have and use the VG-99 as my main rig. Also have the GP10 too. was thinking about using the effects from the GP after the ATG. But I got a Peavey 200 today and I'm going to use it with my old GNX4 for effects in stomp mode. I was really looking for a replacement for my VG-99. Very disappointed in the ATG-1. Got my luthier working on the Peavey. Why put such nice tech in a Peavey?
I just feel like no one making anything is actually talking to an end user about how to build anything the right way.
Anyway, thanks for letting me vent here.

cags12

Peavey was the only company interested in integrating the Auto tune technology. Parker showed an ATG guitar in NAMM but in the end they did not go ahead with the final product. Antares simply took what was on the table I guess.

Offering a luthier Kit, they went one step ahead to what it can be done with Roland and even Variax. I personally like having the system inside the guitar and unfortunately Line 6 does not offer any kit but their ugly JTV's (to my taste).

It is true that there is little point of offering an 13-pin output for bypass instead for the processed signals. They have reckon on their Forums that this was a mistake and a hardware iteration would be needed to include extra DAC. To be fair, as far as I am aware, none of the Roland products can output the divided processed signals even after years in the market and having tons of iterations of the products.

If the VGuitar community supported and bought more products from Antares, they would invest more and introduce newer improved versions. It appears it has not sold good.

Note: Even having such nice tech on a cheap Peavey guitar the product did not sell well. Imagine if it was available on the 10x or more expensive Parker guitar. How would it have sold?

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: mooncaine on May 20, 2017, 05:29:52 PM
Hmm, well, it does seem kinda bone-headed to pass the non-Auto-Tuned signal thru the 13-pin output, or to offer the option. I mean, Auto-Tune is the point of the thing, so why the hell would you want to have the signal that's not in tune with it, to mix it?

Sorta like making a guitar synth that doesn't receive MIDI pitch bend. That's just idiotic.

My concern exactly - I've been voicing this from day 1 when the ATG luthier kit and AT-200 were first released.  Please join me in writing Antares to make hexaphonic pitch processing available.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

Elantric

#7
But the principal Antares developer has since retired last year and it will be up to a new regime that will decide if  spending R&D cost for adding six output channels on GK-13 output has merit and will guarantee success in the market

Especially since they perceive the GK 13 market to be under 500 units and a bit late in the game

Try convincing your financial planner to create a new 2017 product that interfaces with 25 year-old legacy devices only

My thoughts are yes greenlight that product as soon as possible however I know I'm in the minority In the average 25-year-old target customer

Most business development partners today will relegate this idea in the same regard as raising capitol to finance  making a rudder for a duck

In other words very low demand , very low sales, good way to go broke



For trivia I admit the very first ATG-1 Prototype I observed in 2013 did not have any GK 13 Thru out jack

It was tacked on to the design at last minute

. And it was I who is suggested to Antares they should consider adding a GK thru Out Jack , so that folks could daisy chain their existing GK processors (VG-99/ GR-55) and enable /disable the Antares modeling as needed ( and feed the Antares autotune signal to pin number seven on GK 13 pin jack as a mono auto tuned audio feed for the normal guitar input signal on VG 99 GR 55 )and avoid the cost of a separate US 20 selector

Elantric

#8


In 2017 They would probably be more likely to look at new business opportunites and where the bulk of the market is and be more interested in making a 500 series modular synth module that provides Antares auto tuning for a CV/Gate analog rack module

In 2017 most guitar players are experiencing the same phenomena that of an accordion player experienced in 1964 - we are considered old news

I can relate to what this man experienced in a post Beatles era

vtgearhead

Quote from: Elantric on May 21, 2017, 01:21:29 PM
But the principal Antares developer has since retired last year ...

Well, so much for ongoing firmware improvements. 

Elantric

They have a new engineering team and further firmware updates are expected

aliensporebomb

Wait a second - the ATG-1 is $399 via Sweetwater?  That's an INSANE price for what it is. 
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Elantric

I think it's closer to a marketable price
There are no FX or Amp modeling.
Nor does it work as a MIDI Controller since nothing emerges from the ATG-1 MIDI OUT jack

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: Elantric on May 21, 2017, 01:21:29 PM
But the principal Antares developer has since retired last year and it will be up to a new regime that will decide if  spending R&D cost for adding six output channels on GK-13 output has merit and will guarantee success in the market

Especially since they perceive the GK 13 market to be under 500 units and a bit late in the game

Aren't we in the best position to change that perception?  Given the thousands of VGuitar forum members, I would guess that we could collectively build a good case for any manufacturer who would like to test the market for hexaphonic processing.  How about we provide them with poll data from the membership?
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

cags12

Quote from: Elantric on May 21, 2017, 08:27:37 PM
Nor does it work as a MIDI Controller since nothing emerges from the ATG-1 MIDI OUT jack

Elantric, this is not accurate, at least not on the Luthier Kit. The ATG does send MIDI Program changes messages when selecting Presets either via fret or encoder control.

However, there lies another possible market hook. MIDI !!! They have mentioned a few times they are studying the option to add MIDI note output and have carried some internal tests. Not sure what has been the result or the state of the art on that. Certainly that would appeal to another percentage of users and compete with the Fishman triple play which appears to be doing good. I think this is key and a quick win as it would be basically a firmware update and not a revamping of the hardware.

Another aspect I believe all the Vguitar technologies fall on is, the difficulty to new user to embrace the tech. People is reluctant to modify their instruments to add the Hex pickup and whichever output. I have some ideas on that matter but that would be subject to a different post and discussion.

aliensporebomb

Quote from: Elantric on May 21, 2017, 08:27:37 PM
I think it's closer to a marketable price
There are no FX or Amp modeling.
Nor does it work as a MIDI Controller since nothing emerges from the ATG-1 MIDI OUT jack

That's just it - the thing that made the VG-99 so amazing and the ATG-1 so compelling is that polyphonic pitch transposition feature - all the other stuff was "cool" but the key feature was the pitch deal.  There's so much you can do with it that isn't immediately obvious.  Anyway, $399 makes it a compelling buy I think.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

vtgearhead

$399 is probably at or below their manufacturing cost.  As an ATG-1 owner I'm trying to be optimistic, but this does have some "end of product life" aspects to it.