Boss GP-10 USB AUDIO/midi

Started by SLICK, March 12, 2014, 04:37:40 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

maan108

#25
 ;)  I agree that a cheap PC or everyting like this will do the conversion USB>Midi din at the same price of a dedicated box.
The problem with this kind of equipment that need a  PC is that they are strictly related to PC characteristic, OS version and so on , how much they will be available with today PC world dumping factor ?.  FTP also has this problem.  "Old" unit  like my GR33 or VGxx don't have this problem (over the set up tool that in worst case can be substituted acting directly on the unit).

It's only my point of view thinking to the midi guitar evolution !

Thanks a lot to all that for last reply replay   !
Bye! Maan108

merman93

#26
Question for anyone already recording with "Dry guitar" for re-guitaring.
How are the strings assigned to the outputs?


Example, I set up a template in GarageBand of 6 audio and 1 midi track, and assigned the first 6 of 8 audio inputs from GP-10 consecutively, armed each track set gp-10 and recorded.

The strings are all individually recorded, and Midi did fine. However the assignments were random, and using same template for later recordings they changed again.

Maybe they were assigned as the first signal from a string is detected. Don't know and haven't found any documentation that specifically helps.
Ibanez RG 1520 GK
Ibanez RG 420 GK
Ibanez RG 920 (GK KIT)
Ibanez RGA 121 (GK 3)
Fender Deluxe Players Strat (GK KIT)
Roland GC 1/G 505/G 707
Hamer Phantom A7 (24 pin)
BX 13 (24 -13 pin converter)
GP-10
FishmanTripleplay (2)
VG 88 2.0
Apple Imac/Logic 9
MOTU Utralite 3
Kemper (2)
Gemini 2 Active FRFR

Elantric

#27
QuoteColor me ignorant, but would it be possible to make a small Arduino device that plugs into the GP10 that acts as a stand in thru device for the audio midi drivers?  It would probably require reverse engineering a lot of code but if it's possible and somebody here made it I would buy one!


EDIT: Luckily we crowd sourced our own work-arounds to overcome the factory limitations.

Read

Boss GP-10 - How to implement 5 pin MIDI I/O with Raspberry Pi
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11998.0


Boss GP-10 MIDI I/O on Android 4.4.4
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11854.msg85813#msg85813
The Raspberry Pi works to add MIDI I/O to Boss GP-10 /GT-001 today
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11998.0

QuoteQuestion for anyone already recording with "Dry guitar" for re-guitaring.
How are the strings assigned to the outputs?

I understand a PC/Mac will see the Boss GP-10 as an 8 channel interface.





Each string on GP-10 has a separate I/O channel ( as 4 stereo pairs)

[WINDOWS]
Audio input/output device
Of the total audio input/output channels provided by the GP-10, there are 8 INs and 8 OUTs ( as 4 stereo pairs)

[Computer WAVE IN Devices]
IN (GP-10) (Stereo Audio Output from GP-10
GK 1-2 (GP-10) (to record raw signal from  high E+B String)
GK 3-4 (GP-10) (to record raw signal from  high G+D String)
GK 5-6 (GP-10)( to record raw signal from A+Low E String)

[Computer WAVE OUT Devices]
OUT (GP-10) ( for Re-Amping)
GK 1-2 (GP-10) (to drive COSM Modeling for high E+B String - for Re-Guitaring)
GK 3-4 (GP-10) (to drive COSM Modeling for  high G+D String- for Re-Guitaring)
GK 5-6 (GP-10) (to drive COSM Modeling for  A + Low E String- for Re-Guitaring)





MIDI input/output device
[MIDI OUT devices]
GP-10
GP-10 DAW CTRL

[MIDI IN devices]
GP-10
GP-10 DAW CTRL




When  DRY-GUITAR recording is selected . ( see diagram on lower left ) 

Audio Channels 1-2 are the GP-10 main stereo out, and Audio Channels 3-8 correspond with GK-3 Strings 1-6 (High E to Low E) direct one channel per string

( thats what I recall from memory! - but let me know what YOU experience)





Boss GP-10 - Owners Manual/ Parameter Guide/ Control Assigns / Signal Flow
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11566.0


Quote
Maybe they were assigned as the first signal from a string is detected. Don't know and haven't found any documentation that specifically helps.

Me neither ;! I'm sure further research will reveal how this actually works, and I'm Sure within 2 months Roland will release a "Boss GP-10 Recording Workshop"  - rather like they did for Roland VG-99
http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/849/support/


maan108

#28
Hallo !
I think that you can find the audio channel info inside driver package  Readme files  (seem 1 audio channel for 2 string ?) :
Here an excerpt from Italian Readme.

(WINDOWS ONLY)
Bye!

Dispositivo di ingresso/uscita audio
Tra tutti i canali di ingresso/uscita audio forniti da GP-10, sono disponibili 8 IN e 8 OUT

[Dispositivi WAVE OUT]
OUT (GP-10)
GK 1-2 (GP-10)
GK 3-4 (GP-10)
GK 5-6 (GP-10)
 
[Dispositivi WAVE IN]
IN (GP-10)
GK 1-2 (GP-10)
GK 3-4 (GP-10)
GK 5-6 (GP-10)
 
[Dispositivo ASIO]
Quando si utilizza GP-10 con un'applicazione ASIO compatibile, selezionare "GP-10" come impostazione ASIO per l'applicazione.
* Per evitare un loop di feedback audio o un monitoraggio doppio, effettuare le impostazioni sull'applicazione in uso per disattivare il monitoraggio
* L'unità principale GP-10 non supporta ASIO Monitoring Diretto, ma se si utilizza Cubase, abilitando Monitoring Diretto nell'impostazione Cubase, è possibile impedire i loop del feedback audio e il monitoraggio doppio.
* Quando si utilizza GP-10 con ASIO, si consiglia di impostare l'applicazione in modo che non utilizzi Sint. SW Microsoft GS Wavetable, per ridurre il carico e per comodità quando si cambiano le Dimensioni di buffer audio del driver.

Dispositivi di ingresso/uscita MIDI
[Dispositivi MIDI OUT]
GP-10
GP-10 DAW CTRL
 
[Dispositivi MIDI IN]
GP-10
GP-10 DAW CTRL
   

merman93

#29
Quote from: maan108 on July 17, 2014, 12:07:53 AM
Hallo !
I think that you can find the audio channel info inside driver package  Readme files  (seem 1 audio channel for 2 string ?) :


Thank you, that has been very helpful!!
Maan108, how are you liking your GP-10?
Ibanez RG 1520 GK
Ibanez RG 420 GK
Ibanez RG 920 (GK KIT)
Ibanez RGA 121 (GK 3)
Fender Deluxe Players Strat (GK KIT)
Roland GC 1/G 505/G 707
Hamer Phantom A7 (24 pin)
BX 13 (24 -13 pin converter)
GP-10
FishmanTripleplay (2)
VG 88 2.0
Apple Imac/Logic 9
MOTU Utralite 3
Kemper (2)
Gemini 2 Active FRFR

maan108

Quote from: merman93 on July 17, 2014, 06:07:24 AM
Thank you, that has been very helpful!!
Maan108, how are you liking your GP-10?

Hi Merman93 !
Sorry but I still don't have GP-10, I got a GR33 and I was look to new product to be able also to drive it by midi out. So I was investigating  docs and specification before buy it.
Bye

montyrivers

Does this have potential as a tiny midi breakout?  It runs ubuntu.  Is it possible to "wrap" the Roland usb driver and run it on this bad boy? 

http://linuxgizmos.com/tiny-quad-core-mini-pc-ships-for-69/

gumtown

Quote from: montyrivers on July 19, 2014, 03:56:19 AM
Does this have potential as a tiny midi breakout?  It runs ubuntu.  Is it possible to "wrap" the Roland usb driver and run it on this bad boy? 

http://linuxgizmos.com/tiny-quad-core-mini-pc-ships-for-69/
It has a lot of potential, the Roland USB driver could initially run under W.I.N.E. (Linux windows emulator), it will most likely be native to the Linux kernel one day, and output midi to a USB/midi device, and also internally run softsynths and output through the audio out jack, or back into the GP-10 via USB.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

montyrivers

Quote from: gumtown on July 19, 2014, 04:29:19 AM
It has a lot of potential, the Roland USB driver could initially run under W.I.N.E. (Linux windows emulator), it will most likely be native to the Linux kernel one day, and output midi to a USB/midi device, and also internally run softsynths and output through the audio out jack, or back into the GP-10 via USB.
For the price it is very powerful.  Depending on the amount of free time I have and whether or not I cave on getting a gp10 I might try just that!

relayerxxx

#34
Regarding USB audio, looking at the signal flow schematic in the GP10 Program Guide it looks as if the individual string signals are sent direct from the hex pickup before any modelling/ alt tuning takes place - i.e. the unit acts as a USB breakout box. But watching musicovergear's GP10/Logic tutorial video, it would appear that the GP10 can send six individual channels (one per string) of PROCESSED audio via USB. Is this the case? Could I, for example, set up a bizarrely alt-tuned acoustic instrument and have each of its re-pitched strings appearing on its own audio channel on my Mac? This would mean I could use the GP10 to do all the stuff that computers are no good at - like pitch shifting six signals in real time without blowing up - and allow for fun and games with more esoteric plug-ins on individual strings. Have all my dreams come true?

Elantric

#35
QuoteColor me ignorant, but would it be possible to make a small Arduino device that plugs into the GP10 that acts as a stand in thru device for the audio midi drivers?  It would probably require reverse engineering a lot of code but if it's possible and somebody here made it I would buy one!


The Raspberry Pi works to add MIDI I/O to Boss GP-10 /GT-001 today
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11998.0




QuoteRegarding USB audio, looking at the signal flow schematic in the GP10 Program Guide it looks as if the individual string signals are sent direct from the hex pickup before any modelling/ alt tuning takes place - i.e. the unit acts as a USB breakout box.

Read most details on GP-10 USB Audio Routing in the above posts.

All 6 schemes of Boss GP-10 USB Audio Routing is explained here:


QuoteCould I, for example, set up a bizarrely alt-tuned acoustic instrument and have each of its re-pitched strings appearing on its own audio channel on my Mac?

Yes


The only hurdle on GP-10 is not having a direct USB 6 channel analog Output . 

clearlight

#36
So this feature made me pull the trigger and order a gp10.

Anyopne try the separate string out put features?
My Music
My Band Website
GUITARS: 2x RG1521, 3x RG321 w/gk, Rg721 Fretless Modified, AmStd FatStrat w/gk, various others....
XV5050,Triton etc..
KOMPLETE 7
VGUITAR Stuff: VG99, FC300, RC5-

billbax

#37
Hi clearlight,

Yes, I have been testing the GP-10 usb separate strings all week.  It's extremely easy to re-amp/re-guitar and is quite impressive.  You cannot however re-amp another v-synth such as the GR-55, unless you have a breakout box. Another disappointment so far is not being able to run more than one audio device, so you won't be able to use your existing daw interface and the GP-10 usb.  I could be wrong here, although I'm investigating a workaround.

The separate string audio quality isn't bad, but it's hardly hi-end audio.  Without going into too much detail, the separate string THD (total harmonic distortion) is at best 0.0224%.  On a dedicated £500 daw interface you would certainly expect a figure of around 0.0045%.  Also a separate string signal-to-noise ratio is standard stuff from a GK pickup, coming in at around -90dB. A dedicated hex pickup and pre-amp with separate string outputs would be well into -105dB -not to mention a typical separate string THD level of 0.0045%.

Having said all that, I'm generally impressed with the GP-10 separate strings capabilities.

Regards,

Bill




Elantric

#38
QuoteAnother disappointment so far is not being able to run more than one audio device, so you won't be able to use your existing daw interface and the GP-10 usb

Thats true for Windows users only ( a restriction of most ASIO Drivers ).

Over on a Mac with OSX,  the Roland OSX Core Audio Drivers you can run GR-55 and GP-10  at the same time using Apple's Aggregate Audio Device configuration ( see link below)
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3956

QuoteI could be wrong here, although I'm investigating a workaround.

The work around for windows is skip the Roland drivers - use ASIO4ALL.


clearlight

whats the process for recording six tracks of dry guitar for instance?
and would you be able to, for instance. play with a separate instance of REAKTOR for each string?

that was my intention
thanks for the info
My Music
My Band Website
GUITARS: 2x RG1521, 3x RG321 w/gk, Rg721 Fretless Modified, AmStd FatStrat w/gk, various others....
XV5050,Triton etc..
KOMPLETE 7
VGUITAR Stuff: VG99, FC300, RC5-

clearlight

so i have the streaming up and running.
six seperate strings and six instances of guitar rig.
it works but panning is greyed out.

anyone have experience with this?
If I could pan these Id be happy as a clam as i can play and hear everything now, but everything is panned center :( so close

I remember reading about using multiple audio devices on windows 7 somewhere.....?


My Music
My Band Website
GUITARS: 2x RG1521, 3x RG321 w/gk, Rg721 Fretless Modified, AmStd FatStrat w/gk, various others....
XV5050,Triton etc..
KOMPLETE 7
VGUITAR Stuff: VG99, FC300, RC5-

Elantric

#41
Quoteso i have the streaming up and running.
six seperate strings and six instances of guitar rig.
it works but panning is greyed out.

That is a function of your DAW and platform

QuoteI remember reading about using multiple audio devices on windows 7 somewhere.....?
You probably read that Windows 7 does not "play well" when using multiple ASIO audio interfaces

On Windows the Boss GP-10 ASIO Driver transmits the Strings as three stereo pairs of audio channels 

As explained in the GP-10 USB Driver manual
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11568.0;attach=9638
Audio input/output device
Of the total audio input/output channels provided by the GP-10, there are 8 INs and 8 OUTs
[WAVE OUT Devices]
OUT (GP-10)
GK 1-2 (GP-10)
GK 3-4 (GP-10)
GK 5-6 (GP-10)

[WAVE IN Devices]
IN (GP-10)
GK 1-2 (GP-10)
GK 3-4 (GP-10)
GK 5-6 (GP-10)


Compare to the Boss GP-10 Core Audio driver on a Mac running OSX (see below)

On OSX the Boss GP-10 transits the Strings on separate mono audio channels 




clearlight

I got it all working together.
For fellow windows users her's the process.(for what i wanted to do anyway)

1. Get ASIO4ALL and set it up from WITHIN your DAW. For me this meant going into the CUBASE menus DEVICE , VST audio system and , VST connections.
    I had already recorded material to test with as the only problem was having the GP10 inputs AND my other interface as the output.
    While your testing remember that every time you change something the tracks go back to "blank" so you have to manually reset them (almost gave up in frustration only to find that it was "user error" < surprise!)
2 set GP10 USB out to DRY OUT
3. set cubase inputs per track to gp10 3 though 8 which are the individual strings.
4. set outputs to your usual interface
5. turn monitoring on
6. after you hear sound you can go crazy with effects,volumes, and panning per string

it took a while (5 hours) to get everything working together and to make this template so now i don't feel like playing but tomorrow will be a brighter day.
i plan to make some reaktor ensembles and post some videos to my youtube channel (clearlight808)

hope this helps a few people
My Music
My Band Website
GUITARS: 2x RG1521, 3x RG321 w/gk, Rg721 Fretless Modified, AmStd FatStrat w/gk, various others....
XV5050,Triton etc..
KOMPLETE 7
VGUITAR Stuff: VG99, FC300, RC5-

shawnb

#43
Quote from: gumtown on March 28, 2014, 01:26:09 PM
Exactly !!  ;)

Random thought here...   (I don't have a GP-10...)

The Gibson Darkfire, which had 6-channel output, came with a set of Ableton patches using GuitarRig3 presets to demonstrate 6-channel processing.  Some of them were quite nice (...to me anyway, especially the "wave" voices - guitar/sawtooth/polyfx sounds).   Sure it's an old Ableton & an old GR3, but I wonder if those would be usable as starters for the GP-10 users exploring 6-channel guitar?   I might be stretching the backwards compatibility here, & I'm assuming we have Ableton & GR users...  If I had a GP-10, I would definitely give those a try.   
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Frankster

Quote from: montyrivers on July 13, 2014, 06:09:29 PM
Color me ignorant, but would it be possible to make a small Arduino device that plugs into the GP10 that acts as a stand in thru device for the audio midi drivers?  It would probably require reverse engineering a lot of code but if it's possible and somebody here made it I would buy one!

That's what I'm hacking away at right now and boy, it is a nightmare. Using an Arduino and a hacked-up USBH_MIDI library I can read MIDI from an old Roland GI-20 over USB but the GP-10 seems to be far removed from class compliance. The USB descriptors it sends don't even give a clue how to proceed, every interface and endpoint is listed as "vendor specific" meaning it's anyone's guess how it transmits data. I think this project's a complete non-starter. but on the plus side I'm learning a lot about how USB works.


BackDAWman

So from what I can make out, the GP-10 only receives midi on channel 1?

If not how do you change the midi receive channel?

If this is so this is just another nail in its coffin for my application (which is quite straight forward really).

Elantric

#46
QuoteSo from what I can make out, the GP-10 only receives midi on channel 1?

If not how do you change the midi receive channel?

If there is a solution - its documented here:
Boss GP-10 Complete MIDI Specification
http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/63185133/GP-10_MIDI_Imple_e01_W.pdf


Apparently Boss GP-10 will receive and act upon external MIDI patch change commands received on MIDI Channels 1 thru 11  -and ignores all MIDI messages on MIDI channels 12-16 


QuoteColor me ignorant, but would it be possible to make a small Arduino device that plugs into the GP10 that acts as a stand in thru device for the audio midi drivers?  It would probably require reverse engineering a lot of code but if it's possible and somebody here made it I would buy one!


The Raspberry Pi works to add MIDI I/O to Boss GP-10 /GT-001 today
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11998.0


starrats

Audio only 44.100kHz? not 96.000?

Elantric

Correct -All Roland 13 pin processors run at 44.1kHz

glennfin

Gumtown, I just discovered the wonderful world of Unbutu... switched over a Windows machine and I'm never going back.  ;D Unfortunately, I still need to keep some windows machines around to run the boss and roland editors for the VG99, GP-10 and soon to get GT-100...

.. any chance of running these editors with WINE in Unbutu?


Quote from: gumtown on July 19, 2014, 04:29:19 AM
It has a lot of potential, the Roland USB driver could initially run under W.I.N.E. (Linux windows emulator), it will most likely be native to the Linux kernel one day, and output midi to a USB/midi device, and also internally run softsynths and output through the audio out jack, or back into the GP-10 via USB.