Positive Grid BIAS Amp Designer (IOS)

Started by BackDAWman, November 14, 2013, 08:10:30 PM

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supernicd

There is no gear that 100% meets my needs.  Or I'd stop buying more.  And my music room would be far less cluttered. :)
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
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mbenigni

QuoteI've tried guitar-->apogee jam-->lighting-30pin adapter-->CCK-->headphones
and... same as above but iPad headphone out into the aux in on a Fender Mustang IV.

Headphones are kind of a wildcard when it comes to amp tones, and "anemic" is a pretty likely outcome.  As for the Mustang, have you tried turning off Bias' speaker emulation?  (I assume this is an option.)

Try to listen to Bias through a good powered monitor if you have one.  Otherwise, compare a different modeler or software package through the same headphones and/or the Mustang - do these sound better than Bias to you?

supernicd

Yes, it looks like bypassing the cabinet is an option so I'll give that a try.  In retrospect, I may have also left the "room" emulation feature turned on, which might not have been the best thing when playing through the cabinet.  I do have some studio monitors and will try those out too.

Thanks for the tips!
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

supernicd

#28
I'm really pleased to report that there's no issue with Bias and thin/anemic-ness.  I think the issue when I was using headphones might have been my headphones, and that the issue when originally connecting up to the Mustang amp was most likely the room modeling algorithm was still turned on.  I tried with the same config into the Mustang and just made sure to have the room emulator off.

My new conclusion.  Bias is great.  Really great.  As in - how did these guys do this in a $20 iPad app - too good to be true kind of great.  I haven't owned a lot of these amp models but I've owned a number of tube amps, and the models sound and play like tube amps.  The models sound like I'd expect them to from recordings.  And you can tweak the amp's entire construct.  And that seems very different and more flexible than trying to EQ an amp model or put an overdrive or distortion in front of it to try to coerce the sound you want from it.

I think Bias and I are going to be spending a lot of quality time together, and Positive Grid probably just sold me the rest of their in-app-purchase effects models for Jamup.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

This matches my opinion too.
QuoteMy new conclusion.  Bias is great.  Really great.  As in - how did these guys do this in a $20 iPad app - too good to be true kind of great.  I haven't owned a lot of these amp models but I've owned a number of tube amps, and the models sound and play like tube amps.  The models sound like I'd expect them to from recordings.  And you can tweak the amp's entire construct.  And that seems very different and more flexible than trying to EQ an amp model or put an overdrive or distortion in front of it to try to coerce the sound you want from it.

mbenigni

QuoteI'm really pleased to report that there's no issue with Bias and thin/anemic-ness.

Glad to hear it!  I updated our iPad 3 to iOS 7 last night, and I'm looking forward to checking Bias out tonight.  Is it safe to say that this app leaves Amplitube, AmpKit, JamUp, etc. in the dust as far as amp modeling is concerned?  Running all of these options through their paces can be so time-consuming.

I expect my wife and I will be fighting more about who uses the iPad 3 and who uses the iPad 1 now. ;)

supernicd

Quote from: mbenigni on November 21, 2013, 06:57:38 AM
s it safe to say that this app leaves Amplitube, AmpKit, JamUp, etc. in the dust as far as amp modeling is concerned? 

I think so.  But in the case of JamUp specifically, it's deep integration with BIAS gives it a whole new life.  Create an amp model of your liking in BIAS then with one click send it to JamUp to add a complete FX chain.  Will be interested to hear your opinion!
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

#32
QuoteBut in the case of JamUp specifically, it's deep integration with BIAS gives it a whole new life.  Create an amp model of your liking in BIAS then with one click send it to JamUp to add a complete FX chain.

Yes  - BIAS with JAMUP Pro XT is my new #1 (I should point out i already owned all the JAMUP Store in app purchases Amp and FX Bundles = got them last spring during a 50% OFF sale)

AmpKit has one or two nice amps too.

Amplitube sounds like a 80's Zoom by comparison to the above.

BIAS with JAMUP Pro XT sounds way better than my Eleven Rack too.

supernicd

I think it's going to become my #1 too.  Frankly, after I got my setup issues worked out and started playing with it last night, I was kind of blown away to the point where I had to walk away for a while and make sure I wasn't convincing myself it sounded better than it did.  Already thinking about how to integrate this for live use.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

whippinpost91850

#34
Hope to get Bias and check it out this weekend.
Elantric curious, you said it sounds way better then your Eleven Rack (which I also have and have not used since I got my Kemper) but how are you comparing it sound wise to your Kemper. Paul

And yes I find it irritating , after 2 years, that there are still non working buttons, no foot controller, and no editor/librarian for the Kemper

Elantric

#35
Just using my ears and array of guitars  - and prior decades of knowledge of what tubes amps sound like

Quotehow are you comparing it sound wise to your Kemper. Paul

Go back in this thread and re-read my prior posts
I've been so impressed with Positive Grid BIAS Amps that i'm questioning the point of owning my Kemper. Positive Grid BIAS is a serious app for all Tube amp Tone Purists. 

I'm very tempted to put the Kemper on Ebay - to fund a better tool - a 2nd iPad Air?

I was more jazzed with the Kemper last year - because it held the promise being updated by the same team that created the Access Virus TI,  (I had hoped there would be KPA VSTi Control  / DAW Integration - things modern computer based musicians take for granted )  and frankly the quality of the shared KPA patches was 1000 times better back in 2012, and even today after 18 months of ownership- there remain bugs on the KPA OS
I'm not a metal headbanger - instead I seek Mike Campbell clean to Sonny Landreth / Derek Trucks high gain slide.

90% of the time I use BIAS/Jamup pro  - I land on great tones I can use

Lately with my Kemper - I have to wade through piles of bad "Metal" shared presets. And lets face it - a 45 second Kemper reboot in the middle of the gig is nuts for a live tool, and I have yet to figure out how to control KPA FX and stomp boxes  with a third party foot controller.

I'll have to do my own A/B KPA vs Bias  / Jamup pro  -
shoot-out using only the top 100  great KPA presets I have.

But realize that in the electronics industry we are in a 18-36 month shelf life for most DSP's, pSOC's, Arm CPU's etc.

My gut tells me there will be a "Kemper II" with more power in 3-12 months - (its inevitable), and the value of my 1st gen KPA will drop  big time.


And I can simply mount the iPad to a mic stand  - and use Bias/JamUp Pro "Live Mode" and have instant access to everything I need to control at a gig. Its brilliant, and I can spend time writing songs. 

sixeight

This all sounds really good. I only wish they did a plugin version for Mac. Right now the ipad is not in my setup...

whippinpost91850

Elantric, you make some very valid points about the Kemper. I use a FCB1010/Uno to control my GR55 and my KPA, with no real issues. I'm not a Headbanger either , but I do play everything from 50's Do-Wop to GNR and Theory of a Deadman. And agree a lot of the Profiles on the echange are of "Heavy Metal" tones, and I too wish there were more clean to edge of breakup profiles, but I find I have more then enough of these to cover everthing I'm required to play.
I'm allways looking for a way to simplify my stage setup and time, so I do find Ipad and Bias intriguing and certainly will give it a try
Has there been multible incarnations of Virus? Not sure what to think of there being a Kpa II anytime soon. Last I read didn't seem to be in the cards form Engineer Kemper ???

Elantric

#38
QuoteHas there been multiple incarnations of Virus?


Yes - Several
http://www.virus.info/page/render/lang/en/p/116/do/Virus_TI_Picture_Gallery_and_3d_animations.html
http://www.virus.info/virusti/overview
http://www.virus.info/manuals

QuoteNot sure what to think of there being a Kpa II anytime soon. Last I read didn't seem to be in the cards from Engineer [Chris]Kemper ???

No business can afford NOT to introduce new products every few years. Remember the current KPA uses 2010 technology. And we have already had 4 generations of AX-FX.

supernicd

Quote from: Elantric on November 21, 2013, 08:02:55 AMLately with my Kemper - I have to wade through piles of bad "Metal" shared presets.

I think this is ultimately what's kept me from parting with the cash for a KPA.  You either need to have access to the amps who's sounds you want to recreate, or rely on others'  profiles.  I'm sure there are some great ones, but I know from using other sharing systems like Line 6's, it can get really time consuming to audition lots of patches (or profiles) and separate the wheat from the chaff, particularly when it comes to freebies.  As a result, I don't invest much time in downloading patches for my Line 6, Fender, etc. stuff, and just make my own.  The GR-55 is a bit of an exception with patches on this site.  I do occasionally download and try new patches for it, because it has such a huge range of possible sounds that someone can come up with a sound that I would never have even thought to try to make.

Another thing I like about BIAS is that the editor is built into it, and it is beautiful, intuitive, and well thought out.  There's no external editor to connect it to, and it really feels like you're changing the way the amp is built or set up rather than changing numeric parameter values on an LCD display and trying to translate in your head what that means.  Like you kind of have to in Roland-land.  There is help available in just the right places for someone like me who's never done any custom work on an amp to get an idea of what I'm doing.

Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

QuoteI use a FCB1010/Uno to control my GR55 and my KPA, with no real issues.

Share your FCB-1010 Uno <=> KPA Control presets?

All the ones ive tried have zero Stomp box on/off status LEDs. Only the "UNO 4 Kemper"  ROM works - but is restricted with zero support for controlling other gear too

http://www.sonicstate.com/amped/2013/11/14/using-the-behringer-fcb1010-with-kemper-profiling-amp/

mbenigni

There is definitely a glut of metal amps on the Kemper Profile Exchange, but IMO there's plenty of chaff at all levels of gain, e.g. tons of anemic Vox-alikes, etc. and it takes a long time to sort through them.  What compounds this problem is that any given profile is best at presenting the tone and gain settings that were selected on that amp at the time it was profiled.  The KPA Gain knob and tone stack don't have any real "knowledge" of the amp's architecture the way a proper modeler (AxeFX or any sophisticated software package) would, so you get farther away from the original amp's character as you deviate with these controls.  Thus - you really need to amass a library of profiles not only for your fave amps, but for those amps at different settings.  In one sense there's a simplicity about it:  the profile kind of is what it is, less tweaking; but for the same reason it can be kind of a juggling act: how far can I push this profile before I'm better off jumping to another?

It will be refreshing to work with a piece of software that's simulating a real amp's architecture again.  I love the KPA for its ability to really capture a given amp in the moment, without too much effort or expertise on the user's part, but I also like fiddling with an amps controls and getting a feel for how they really behave.

As for the whole floorboard thing, I gave up on Kemper a long time ago.  Seemed like it would take forever, likely be more than I wanted, and at a higher price than I could afford.  I cobbled together a bunch of homegrown solutions, but Steve is right - none provide effective visual feedback on the floor.

mbenigni

But I certainly don't mean to diminish the Kemper.  I'll most likely keep mine even if Bias blows me away.  For a long time I was looking to go all-software with more and more powerful computers, but the KPA changed my mind about the importance of good, purpose-built hardware.  There's a lot to be said for preamps, filtering, routing, mechanical UI components (real knobs!) etc. that are designed to complement the software.

Elantric

#43
Its time for me to make a spreadsheet comparing all my gear and comparing strengths to weaknesses, and trim down the arsenal to only own gear i actually use! ;)

that might unload a few tons and reduce my month to month storage fees too ;)

QuoteThere is definitely a glut of metal amps on the Kemper Profile Exchange,

I cant figure out where a Metal band actually performs in 2013.

In my college town, these words are never spoken: "Lets hire the local heavy metal band for our party!" 

supernicd

Quote from: mbenigni on November 21, 2013, 12:08:28 PM
There's a lot to be said for preamps, filtering, routing, mechanical UI components (real knobs!) etc. that are designed to complement the software.
Agreed!  The old adage that your tone can only be as good as the worst component in its signal path still holds true.  As for real knobs, etc, I also agree.  Ever tried to pull the mids down during a performance on a GR-55?  it's as simple as click edit, page right, down arrow, press enter, down arrow, down arrow....  :)

Quote from: Elantric on November 21, 2013, 12:19:58 PM
Its time for me to make a spreadsheet comparing all my gear and comparing strengths to weaknesses, and trim down the arsenal to only own gear i actually use! ;)

that might unload a few tons and reduce my month to month storage fees too ;)
Ha, if you ever actually do this, would love to see it.  I could probably stand to do the same myself but I'm pretty sure I'll never get around to it.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

whippinpost91850

I will try and do that this weekend. If you set up the stomp status on the Fcb1010 ( I still use Ripwerx editor) to match the stomp status at patch change on the Kemper the LED status for the Stomps stays lined up.

mbenigni

QuoteEver tried to pull the mids down during a performance on a GR-55?  it's as simple as click edit, page right, down arrow, press enter, down arrow, down arrow....  :)

Oh yes, this had my attention from the moment I pulled my GR55 out of its box.  To the point that I obsessively spent about a year doing this:  https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6501.0  :D

QuoteIts time for me to make a spreadsheet comparing all my gear and comparing strengths to weaknesses, and trim down the arsenal to only own gear i actually use! ;)

I tried doing this a couple of years ago (right before I bought my Kemper, actually) but man is it hard to find buyers for some of the old miscellany I own.  Even for the good stuff you wind up taking pennies on the dollar.  If it's not vintage or cutting edge, no one wants it.

supernicd

Quote from: mbenigni on November 21, 2013, 01:39:00 PM
Oh yes, this had my attention from the moment I pulled my GR55 out of its box.  To the point that I obsessively spent about a year doing this:  https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6501.0  :D
Oh, OK that was yours!  I remember looking at this a few times, and also looking at Lemur and TB MIDI Stuff which both have [partially completed] templates.  Looks really interesting but I never tried it.  Always wondered whether I'd actually really use it after neat factor wore off.

I really like the way Roland approached the "knob issue" on the GT-100 with the multiple screens and endless rotary encoders that control different parameters on each screen.  It's really fast to get to what you want to edit, the knob gives the tactile feel, and they start the change from the current setting rather than making a big jump like on a fixed encoder.  And the LCDs though even though they don't have beautiful graphics have just enough graphical content to sort of make you feel connected to it.

Roland got a lot of things right on the GT-100, IMO.  Shame I don't use it more.  I hope some its good qualities come through in the VG-100 and/or GR-56.  As for BIAS, I should caveat that I like the interface as far as dialing in a preset from the comfort of home.   It would not be very fun to try to spin the touch screen "knobs" in a live situation.  Knobs in an iPad music app frequently don't go the direction I intend them to. :)

QuoteIn my college town, these words are never spoken: "Lets hire the local heavy metal band for our party!"
Heh, so true.  You would have to look hard to find a metal band playing around here, but for some reason if you look in the musician classifieds it would be really easy to join a metal band as they are forming every day.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

whippinpost91850

Oddly , I live in Metro Detroit and you can find several venues with Metal bands allmost any night. ???

Elantric

QuoteOddly , I live in Metro Detroit and you can find several venues with Metal bands almost any night.

Enjoy (?)