JamOrigin - MIDI Guitar = Polyphonic Guitar to MIDI Software

Started by Charles5150, December 15, 2012, 05:18:42 AM

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Charles5150

Seems very convincing.....

http://www.jamorigin.com/


PD FX

yes, it is convincing!
Its algorhytm is fantastic: I've hooked up my GR-55 parallel with the Midi guitar, and there are quite a lot of things the midi guitar can do better. it has better dynamics, it has less annoying open string behaviour (better trigtger algorhythm)
When you play with your fingers, you can put the prediction on 3 savely! in this mode the basstones from midguitar come faster than the miditones from the gr55. really ouotstanding considered the fact that Midi guitar has a audio buffer size to cope with..
I'll make a short video soon.





PD FX

#2
here's a quick jam to show what you can expect when you try to play a bit funky, it is not bad for a piece of software!


for comparison, here's my GR30 as midi supplier..

0%


The gr55 scores in between, I've checked these findings with Midi monitor.

Mrchevy

This is very cool. It looks as though the developers have worked closely with those at the KVR forums doing beta testing (28 pg. thread and counting). Guitarpolson, your first demo seems to demonstrate awesome tracking and clarity over the second video. I had skimmed thru the KVR thread but did not read thoroughly thru it. One question I have about this is the expression and dynamics capability of this software. Have you worked with this at all. Do you know how it translates your playing in this manor, ex. soft touch to aggressive picking, Is this translated well?
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

PD FX

I know nothing about KVR..
But I do know that the dynamics from Midi guitar are TOO good sometimes.. I'll suggest a dynamics option to jamorigin, perhaps with treshhol combined. that would definitely rock!

Mrchevy

Could you maybe post a vid demonstrating the expression and dynamics ability. Their demo vids show a little but doesn't seem to focus much on this aspect.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

PD FX

#6
Here you are, mrchevy!
I've improvised a gipsystyle piece for you right now, with dynamics just from the fingers..
Plese note that Midi guitar doesnt support pitchbend yet, so piano playing is the best you can do with it now..

musicman65

For a more accurate comparison, the GR needs to be set to chromatic to match the JamOrigin's ability. It sounded like pitch bend was on in the GR demo. Pitch bend is a huge task in guitar-to-midi and that's why its missing in this early version.

JamOrigin looks like it uses a single composite analog signal (normal guitar output) and therefore results in a single midi channel. Pitch bending with two notes being played will cause a "garbled" or warbly tone when performed on a single midi channel. Hex pickups solve this by having separate midi channels per string. It will be interesting to see if they can solve this issue.

bd

PD FX

#8
Quote from: musicman65 on December 15, 2012, 08:16:42 AM
For a more accurate comparison, the GR needs to be set to chromatic to match the JamOrigin's ability. It sounded like pitch bend was on in the GR demo. Pitch bend is a huge task in guitar-to-midi and that's why its missing in this early version.
In the beginning of video the GR30 is in chromatic mode..
BUt if I was to make a real objective comparison, I would pan one synth to the left and 1 to the right. But it is not correct, musically to do so.. as a player you react to the (virtual) instruments response, if there are 2 instruments, I cannot play proper with either! So that's why I play each convertor separate..

the GR30 suffers lousy velocitydetection circuitry, tones come fast but die too late.. I'll fix this when i've got the time, it is an error in the GR30's design.

I think jamorigin will come first with more options for monosynth mode, that would make solo's with bends possible. And then they could automatically switch between mono and polymode, so Midi guitar will switch to chromtiac if chords are played, and to mono mode if 1 note is played at a time.

yes, I think guitar to midi will become very popular, because the app is cheap. anybody can use it now. And it will grow to be better and better.. Compare this e.g. to the behaviour of Roland! The gr55 is actually a slower converter than the gr30, which is a product 10 years older!

Jim Williams

hey guitarpolson, could you let me know how you are setting up your software I am having trouble getting mine to track as well as you.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

Mrchevy

Guitarpolson, thank you for posting that vid. It does seem to respond well to touch dynamics. Pitch bend may or may not matter, depending on what voice or tone your using. You wouldn't pitch bend a piano voice but a synth, maybe. I don't recall, in the brief reading of the beta testing thread, if modulation could be applied, but if so, it could possibly be done with an expression pedal, could it not? I am somewhat of a newbee with the midi stuff but will be very interested in seeing what becomes of a full release version with demo's of what it can do. I wonder if they will load it with a good library of tones and voices. Maybe offer tone packs to buy separately or for expansion. Or is this software mainly meant to be used as a controller type application for various soft synths. Could this possibly be the paddle for the spanking Roland needs? I suspect being software, updates for improvements might be far more likely. I'll definitely be following it's development but with my vast knowledge of midi ;D, I wouldn't be much help in beta testing. 
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

Charles5150

The piano video sounds amazing, unbelivable dynamics.

It's the first time I see a software artifact capable of being an alternative to Roland stuff or even Tripleplay ....

PD FX

#12
I'll describe my whole setup here:

MacBook Intel Core 2 Duo 2 GHz, 4 gigabyte Ram
I've used the gr-55 as an audio interface, because it is the fastest interface I have, and it offers the damperpedal at the same time..

GR55:
Direct monitoring: off!
no effects whatsoever, just 1 clean COSM strat that serves as input for Midi guitar.

Midi patchbay:  (great software! http://notahat.com/midi_patchbay/ )
I've made a virtual midi stream with controls from GR-55 and the notes from Midi guitar. So thats how I get the sustain pedal to work.

Midi guitar settings:
128 buffer, prediction 3, poly mode, default bright guitar, sensitivity way up to 90%
I actually used a COSM bright classic strat to feed into Midi guitar, by using the GR-55 as input device..

Kontakt 5:
96 Buffer, Steinway. Listens to virtual midistream with notes from Midi guitar and controls from GR-55

Finally, the resulting audio comes out of the gr-55, I connect it with a stereo DI (with groundlift) to the normal audio line in from my computer. System record select: line in. Then start iMovie and do something cool, you deserved it ")

musicman65

I suspect improvements could be had using EQ in the GR55 to make a more rounded tone with less harmonics and more fundamental pitch. Also the noise gate and compressor could help reject light touch false triggers.

Interesting software. Make it run on a rack mount SSD based CPU and I'm ready to try it.

bd

PD FX

Quote from: musicman65 on December 16, 2012, 08:29:40 AM
I suspect improvements could be had using EQ in the GR55 to make a more rounded tone with less harmonics and more fundamental pitch. Also the noise gate and compressor could help reject light touch false triggers.
Yes, It would make sense for other converters, but "rounded tone" is not good for Midi guitar: its prediction depends on the overtones! I use prediction 3 and it doesnt degrade pitch recognition for me, it is just faster... I've measured the performance: with Prediction 3, the Midi guitar is faster than the GR55 on the low notes ( A and lower on 6th string), when I compare both as midi supplier on the laptop.
Play without nails, damp the open strings if necessairy, thats the best you can do.
Perhaps a noisegate will be implemented in Midi guitar, that would make sense in conjunction with a bit more sofisticated dynamics control.

Jim Williams

I got a chance to try out your settings with the software and it worked like a charm. used the GT-100 in USB dry out mode and it worked great. Now if I can just get it to behave in Forte 3 I will have program changes and midi control for live use. it tracks as well as my VG-99 guitar to midi and I am still going back and forth to decide how it compares to my GR-55. The 55 has more control over dynamics and string options so I think it wont replace the hole hex pickup technology but is still a inexpensive alterative for new comers to guitar synth.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

musicman65

My point is that you can give the software what it wants  to improve triggering since you supply the analog and the GR55 can be used to enhance the spectrum that the algorithm needs. No two guitars are the same so there must be an ideal model their predictive pitch to midi is built on.

Compression and/or noise gates can control the dynamics of the analog which could help eliminate false notes.

I'd be curious what effect the analog source has on performance.

bd

PD FX

Quote from: musicman65 on December 16, 2012, 12:22:08 PM
My point is that you can give the software what it wants  to improve triggering since you supply the analog and the GR55 can be used to enhance the spectrum that the algorithm needs. No two guitars are the same so there must be an ideal model their predictive pitch to midi is built on.

Compression and/or noise gates can control the dynamics of the analog which could help eliminate false notes.

I'd be curious what effect the analog source has on performance.

bd
yes your right!, actually i used the GR55's cosm strat's neckpickup for being extra bright! The brighter the better for Midi guitar, it seems..
Body resonance, however, is evil. Midi guitar dont like that, no sir!
I've hooked up a piezo spanish, it performs very good, only creates ghostnotes out of the body resonance. So there som eq'ing should do wunders! (Q out the body resonance should do the trick). I'll try this soon.

tekrytor

I tried it...and it works with my cheap Radio Shack wireless. I'm sure cleaner is better though, so I'm curious if someone with a good wireless rig can test it. I had some latency much like the GR-55, and some occasional breakup. But it seems almost there, almost usable. I'm optimistic that they can do it. I think the computing power is finally there. IMO, this is good technology that will make it.
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

Jim Williams

Ok I got this thing running great and I think it is even faster than my GR-55. The only problem is getting the VST to receive midi messages from my GT-100. I am using Windows 8 is there anyone out there who can help?
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

mapperboy

Looking at JamOrigin's web...
is this ONLY avail as an apple or MacOsX app?
-m
"No such thing as spare time.
No such thing as free time.
No such thing as down time.
All you got is life time. Go!"
- Henry Rollins

Elantric


mapperboy

OK me stupid,
Got it now, just couldn't see the link for the links for the links... ;D
Thanks,
-m
"No such thing as spare time.
No such thing as free time.
No such thing as down time.
All you got is life time. Go!"
- Henry Rollins

Charles5150

Just downloaded the demo for PC

Tried it with some Roland HyperCanvas patches, works like a charm and it's only a beta.....
The algorhytm for extracting polyphonic notes is amazing. Tried to fool it with some quartal six note chords, 13#11, altered dominants, slash chords, polychords....... no problem at all !

very, very promising

aliensporebomb

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.