Godin / RMC Piezo factory mis-wiring issues

Started by myksara, November 06, 2011, 01:48:33 AM

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myksara

Thanks a ton Dunny!!!...I have recently purchased the Godin LGXT and own a GR55. So was struggling with this stuff for a few weeks until I saw this!...This is perfect and I am so happy that I can finally hear the 3 voice with the GK cable only.
However, I have one more problem. Can you help me with that? Here it is-
When I pick the 2nd string of the Godin, it is wrongly detected as string no 3 on my GR55 tuner but tuner shows B correctly and if I pick the 3rd string on my Godin, it is wrongly detected as string no. 2 on my GR55 tuner but tuner shows G corrcetly. This 'crossing' is kinda wierd and happens only for strings 2 and 3.
This is not a big problem as anyway the notes played are detected appropriately. But becomes a problem when I turn the 12string switch on for any patch where strings 1 and 3 sound in unison (instead of strings 1 and 2) while the other strings- 6,5,4 and 2 sound in octaves (Ideally string 2 should be a unison and string 3 should sound an octave apart).
Would really appreciate if you can throw some light on this!!..
Pls note that I also use the GR55 with an Ibanez with an external Roland GK3 pick up mounted and that works absolutely fine without this 'crossing' problem!
Guitars: Ibanez Prestige S5470, Ibanez Jem 7v, Ibanez JS2410, PRS SE Custom24, Cort  Ltd G16, Ibanez RG370Ahmz,
MultiFX: Roland GR55, Zoom 1on, BOSS GT00
Loopers: Digitech trio+, Line 6 JM4
MIDI:, MAudio Axiom24 keyboard, Alesis IO Dock with iPad air 2

paults

It sounds to me like the pickup wires may be reversed for those two strings.

Elantric

+ 1
QuoteIt sounds to me like the pickup wires may be reversed for those two strings.

myksara

Thanks!..I too suspected the same thing but the Godin tech kept saying it could be a problem with the GR55. But it is not after trying the Godin with other Roland units like VG99 and GR20.. Is there a way I can get the steps to fix this on my own?
Guitars: Ibanez Prestige S5470, Ibanez Jem 7v, Ibanez JS2410, PRS SE Custom24, Cort  Ltd G16, Ibanez RG370Ahmz,
MultiFX: Roland GR55, Zoom 1on, BOSS GT00
Loopers: Digitech trio+, Line 6 JM4
MIDI:, MAudio Axiom24 keyboard, Alesis IO Dock with iPad air 2

Elantric

#4
Your guitar uses RMC pickups

if you were the original owner and you suspect the guitar shipped from the factory with "mis-wired" piezo saddles, contact Godin and demand they fix it under warranty

If you got the Godin LGXT used, I would find the local authorized RMC pickup installer for a repair.


The global worldwide RMC pickup installers list should be consulted to locate a repair center in your area:
They can repair your RMC pickups in your Godin.


the list is at the link at the bottom of this page

http://www.rmcpickup.com/products.html



http://www.rmcpickup.com/authorized_installers.htm

QuoteIs there a way I can get the steps to fix this on my own?

Some Piezo Installation docs are here - if you can solder, and can identify the piezo saddle wires, its a simple swap of two wires.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79.0



myksara

Thanks for all those links!...Well, my guitar is a brand new one purchase just about 2 weeks back from a dealer in India. He has been kind enough to direct me to a Godin techie in some other country. I have been speaking to this Godin tech guy over mails but our countries are distant apart and unfortunately there is no Godin authorized techie in my country-INDIA. The Godin tech support guy is trying to help me out but says he has limitations since he doesn't have the guitar in front of him- in short I am not expecting much from those folks.
I have never done a guitar wiring but attaching a few picks of how my Godin looks like. I could see 6 wires all in silver color and suspect they are the ones coming from the saddle. Any thoughts how I can be sure of which wire is for which string?

Thanks for all your help so far!
The guitar is under warranty but there is no techie who can apparently fix this soon, so I want to fix it myself!:-((
Guitars: Ibanez Prestige S5470, Ibanez Jem 7v, Ibanez JS2410, PRS SE Custom24, Cort  Ltd G16, Ibanez RG370Ahmz,
MultiFX: Roland GR55, Zoom 1on, BOSS GT00
Loopers: Digitech trio+, Line 6 JM4
MIDI:, MAudio Axiom24 keyboard, Alesis IO Dock with iPad air 2

Elantric

#6
This link is impossible for me to open (using Firefox - hmm note to self - switch to Google Chrome)

Suggest you upload the pics directly - and not as part of a MS Word doc.

or post to www.photobucket.com

details here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4823.msg32701#msg32701


EDIT: Ok I have uploaded the pic of the internal Godin LGXT Piezo cable connection to the PCB

Elantric

#7
QuoteWhen I pick the 2nd string of the Godin, it is wrongly detected as string no 3 on my GR55 tuner but tuner shows B correctly and if I pick the 3rd string on my Godin, it is wrongly detected as string no. 2 on my GR55 tuner but tuner shows G corrcetly. This 'crossing' is kinda wierd and happens only for strings 2 and 3.



MykSara

In the photo below, the RMC Piezo Saddle cable sequence on the Internal PCB Solder pads are: (Top to Bottom)

6  (low E string)
5  (A string)
4  (D string)
3  (G  string)
2  (B string)
1  (high E  string)



You (or your local Guitar Technician) will want to "swap" the positions of the two cables




I contacted Richard McClish at RMC Pickups and provided him the photo of the PCB and explained your problem of "B" and "G" piezo saddle wires being installed wrong at the Godin factory and he replied:

"
String 1 is the lowest in the picture. String 6 is the highest one.

Note that the cable braids don't need to all be soldered to the board.
The cables contact one another along their length and so the swapped
cables can be left unconnected at the braids [PC Board]. One can wrap the braids
with a piece of bare copper wire and solder the wire to one of the
Ground pads on the p.c.b. This reduces heat damage and facilitates
future servicing.

I recommend adding leaded (Sn63 or Sn62) solder to the joints/pads
in order to remove the signal wires with minimum heat damage to the holes.
The word is : save the p.c.b.

I hope the information provided will be helpful. If you have any further
questions about RMC products, please don't hesitate to contact me.




Best regards,

RMC   Richard McClish"




Print out these instructions and provide to your local Guitar Repairman.

myksara

Wowww!!!...Really appreciate your super quick responses and help..I can sense victory over this issue is closer now..
Before I move ahead with this,just wanted to clarify whta the RMC guy means by this...
Note that the cable braids don't need to all be soldered to the board.
The cables contact one another along their length and so the swapped
cables can be left unconnected at the braids
.
Guitars: Ibanez Prestige S5470, Ibanez Jem 7v, Ibanez JS2410, PRS SE Custom24, Cort  Ltd G16, Ibanez RG370Ahmz,
MultiFX: Roland GR55, Zoom 1on, BOSS GT00
Loopers: Digitech trio+, Line 6 JM4
MIDI:, MAudio Axiom24 keyboard, Alesis IO Dock with iPad air 2

Elantric

#9
The Braids are the woven metal shields on each cable.

Richard McClish is saying that if you must remove the cables in the yellow circle entirely from the the PC Board, ( to perform the position swap) , its OK to remove the Braid portion from the PC board ( as seen on the the right side of the yellow circle) and no need to re-solder these to the PC board. These Braided Shields will require a lot of HEAT to remove and even More Heat to Reattach to the PC board. Excess Heat WILL DAMAGE THE PC BOARD.

Also suggest use leaded solder, which has a lower temperature compared to the newer lead free solder.

If you are not comfortable soldering, print this page and take it to a technician to do the soldering.

Refer to the Yellow Circle in the pic below, the critical electrical connections which you will swap are the wire connections on the small round solder pads on the left.



"
String 1 is the lowest in the picture. String 6 is the highest one.

Note that the cable braids don't need to all be soldered to the board.
The cables contact one another along their length and so the swapped
cables can be left unconnected at the braids [PC Board]. One can wrap the braids
with a piece of bare copper wire and solder the wire to one of the
Ground pads on the p.c.b. This reduces heat damage and facilitates
future servicing.

I recommend adding leaded (Sn63 or Sn62) solder to the joints/pads
in order to remove the signal wires with minimum heat damage to the holes.
The word is : save the p.c.b.

I hope the information provided will be helpful. If you have any further
questions about RMC products, please don't hesitate to contact me.




Best regards,

RMC   Richard McClish"

myksara

Perfect!...Thanks a bunch once again...Have managed to desolder both the wires from their points at the left..and soldered the 3rd wire from the bottom to the 2nd solder point spot.. yippie..the 2nd string detection is now perfect.. Now I have also managed to desolder the braid of the 2nd wire from the bottom and its tip as well and soldered the tip to the 3rd spot from the bottom..not bothering to solder the braid again...
Now I try removing the braid of the 3rd wire from the bottom, but it is a bit painful so I leave it alone after an unsuccessful try at it!
At this point I have the 3rd string working well, but the 2nd string which was working gud has stopped responding altogether..
So the end state is currently strings 1,3,4,5,6 are perfect now ..but string 2 is not detected..tried sensitivity setting from 0 to 100- no luck..What cd be the problem..
Really pissed off with Godin at this point..and am so thankful to teh almighty that people and forums such as these exist...else I wd have thrown away this guitar in frustration!>..But still need help onthe last bit :-((..
Godin support in India sucks..infact it is 0!!!...
Guitars: Ibanez Prestige S5470, Ibanez Jem 7v, Ibanez JS2410, PRS SE Custom24, Cort  Ltd G16, Ibanez RG370Ahmz,
MultiFX: Roland GR55, Zoom 1on, BOSS GT00
Loopers: Digitech trio+, Line 6 JM4
MIDI:, MAudio Axiom24 keyboard, Alesis IO Dock with iPad air 2

Elantric

#11
Quote.but string 2 is not detected..tried


Get an Ohm Meter - I suspect with too much heat the "B"String cable is now internally shorted  to the shield.

These are VERY fragile and do not survive too many trips with the soldering iron.


With care and a small sharp knife the braid can be stripped back away from the end of the "B" string cable, and repair the internal cable short due to excess heat.

myksara

Bingo! Problem resolved completely- I managed to get a time slot of a local electronics technician and he just did this in less than a minute..All that was left to do is desolder the troubling wire from the braid and all started working fine..
Thanks to all those who helped me get this sorted out, especially Elantric for his super fast responses...
If you happen to be in India, I owe you one :-)
Cheers!..
Now I need to shoot at the Godin guys as to how this basic stuff was wrong and the guitar was let out of their QC procedures!!...Shame on a company who boast of quality guitars...
Guitars: Ibanez Prestige S5470, Ibanez Jem 7v, Ibanez JS2410, PRS SE Custom24, Cort  Ltd G16, Ibanez RG370Ahmz,
MultiFX: Roland GR55, Zoom 1on, BOSS GT00
Loopers: Digitech trio+, Line 6 JM4
MIDI:, MAudio Axiom24 keyboard, Alesis IO Dock with iPad air 2

Elantric

#13
Excellent news.
Re Godin customer service.
I purchased a new Godin SD 22 last spring , it came with the wrong tremolo bar and it took me months to get a resolution. Finally had to order a replacement bar from the parts department.
I found the customer service poor, They can get very stubborn and tell you in writing their guitars are perfect when I know otherwise.

NyteOwl

I read this post with great interest, as I have two 3-voice guitars - a Godin LGXT and a Carvin SH65 - and would like to have independent control over all three voices.  However, if I understand the connections correctly, both the magnetic guitar signal and the piezo acoustic signal are being sent to the same amp, yes?

I'm guessing there is still no way to separate the magnetic and piezo acoustic signals at the Guitar Out jack, eh?


Elantric

#15
LGXT Manual

http://www.godinguitars.com/lgxt.pdf


3 Outputs - 3 cords
You can use all three outputs to carry out the dedicated signal
into three different channels or amp sources.

myksara

Hi Folks!...I am back again with another problem in my LGXT...
The 5 way pick up selector switch meant for the stock seymour duncans suddenly did not sound in any position for strings 2 and 4..
So I opened the back and found that there is a white wire that's got plucked off and I suspect that this is from the 5 way selector switch internals..Not sure where to solder it back..Can anyone tell me where it needs to be soldered again? Note that there is only one white wire and the rest are all red ones

Guitars: Ibanez Prestige S5470, Ibanez Jem 7v, Ibanez JS2410, PRS SE Custom24, Cort  Ltd G16, Ibanez RG370Ahmz,
MultiFX: Roland GR55, Zoom 1on, BOSS GT00
Loopers: Digitech trio+, Line 6 JM4
MIDI:, MAudio Axiom24 keyboard, Alesis IO Dock with iPad air 2

Kevin M

If possible, try to take a picture so others can see.

myksara

#18
Uploading the pic..
The red arrow in th epic points to the white wire that has come off...
The red circle is the 5-way selector internals from which the wire has come off..but not sure which terminal it needs to be soldered back again
Guitars: Ibanez Prestige S5470, Ibanez Jem 7v, Ibanez JS2410, PRS SE Custom24, Cort  Ltd G16, Ibanez RG370Ahmz,
MultiFX: Roland GR55, Zoom 1on, BOSS GT00
Loopers: Digitech trio+, Line 6 JM4
MIDI:, MAudio Axiom24 keyboard, Alesis IO Dock with iPad air 2

myksara

Any solution from anyone?...
Please help
Guitars: Ibanez Prestige S5470, Ibanez Jem 7v, Ibanez JS2410, PRS SE Custom24, Cort  Ltd G16, Ibanez RG370Ahmz,
MultiFX: Roland GR55, Zoom 1on, BOSS GT00
Loopers: Digitech trio+, Line 6 JM4
MIDI:, MAudio Axiom24 keyboard, Alesis IO Dock with iPad air 2

gumtown

Any signs of solder on the switch with no wire attached?
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

myksara

Nope..I can see that towards the bottom terminals, there is a RED and WHITE wire soldered together..So I think this white wire will need to be paired with one of the existing RED ones. Not sure which one.
I have also written to Godin and awaiting a reply..
On a totally different note, should I ask Godin for a replacement guitar or refund? The guitar is still under warranty but there is no luthier support here in India for Godins and I have to troubleshoot myself with the help of all you lovely people here..
Does Godin issue a replacement/refund?
Guitars: Ibanez Prestige S5470, Ibanez Jem 7v, Ibanez JS2410, PRS SE Custom24, Cort  Ltd G16, Ibanez RG370Ahmz,
MultiFX: Roland GR55, Zoom 1on, BOSS GT00
Loopers: Digitech trio+, Line 6 JM4
MIDI:, MAudio Axiom24 keyboard, Alesis IO Dock with iPad air 2

myksara

Ok..I did a detailed thorough test on my guitar and here are the results:

Mini toggle switch on position 1: Piezo sounds no problem
Mini toggle switch on position 1:
Seymour Duncans sounding on position 1,3,4 of 5 way pickup selector when I flick the 5way switch from position 1 to 5
Seymour Duncans sounding on position 4,3,2,1 of 5 way pickup selector when I flick the 5way switch from position 5 to 1
Thus, position 5 has no sound at all and position 2 produces sound when I move from position 3 to 2 and not from position 1 to 2-mysterious to me

Mini toggle switch on position 2, same behaviour for piezo and seymour duncans as stated above
For the synth access behavior, strings 2 and 4 produce no sound!!
Mini toggle switch on position 3 (which is synth access only): strings 2 and 4 produce no sound!

For the mini toggle switch here is what the positions mean:
Position 1: Acoustic/Electric
Position 2: Acoustic/Electric/synth sounds
Position 3: Synth only

One more bad news for me is that I wrote to a Godin technician that I had interacted with in the past and the mail has bounced back saying the id does not exist!..I hope Godin has not shut down :( :( :(

Pls help

Guitars: Ibanez Prestige S5470, Ibanez Jem 7v, Ibanez JS2410, PRS SE Custom24, Cort  Ltd G16, Ibanez RG370Ahmz,
MultiFX: Roland GR55, Zoom 1on, BOSS GT00
Loopers: Digitech trio+, Line 6 JM4
MIDI:, MAudio Axiom24 keyboard, Alesis IO Dock with iPad air 2

myksara

Hi All,
Finally I have resolved my Godin LGXT issues with the help of none other than Richard McLish (RMC founder) himself!!
I am attaching the Godin LGXT internal wiring diagram that Richard gave me for reference- very vital!
This helped me solder back the white wire to the right terminal and restored the 5 way seymour duncan selector function.
But the problem of strings 2 and 4 not being detected despite high values of sensitivity on GR55 still persisted.

Again with Richard's guidance, I did a bit of cleaning by spraying an antioxidant on the parts of the jackboard only and eliminated the above problem and bingo my guitar was back in shape..Hope I get to gig with it with reliability now..  Here's the detailed reply I got from Richard..

"-=- Hi Saurabh,I'm glad we have the 5-way problem corrected, it's a good start.If the acoustic sound of the piezos is good for all strings in the  amplifiedguitar sound, then the pickup saddles are working fine.Since the instrument was operational a while ago, I tend to think  that the mainboard and the jackboard are OK.I recommend checking your DIN-13 cable for broken wires as this is an  item whichis subject to fatigue over time and needs to be replaced after a while.If your cable is fine, then the problem may be caused by dirty  contacts betweenthe main board and the jackboard.I recommend cleaning the header pins on both the main board and the  jackboard.For this purpose, remove the jackboard from the instrument and remove  thenuts & washers from the main board pots & switches so it can be  lifted away fromthe floor of the cavity. You don't need to de-solder anything.Disconnect the 20-conductor ribbon cable from the main board and  proceed to cleanthe pins of the 20-pin header. Do the same on the header pins of the  jackboard.Use isopropyl alcohol or an equivalent chemical to remove any rosin  flux depositsfrom the pins and then apply De-Oxit or an equivalent contact  protection substance.A competent electronics technician would have that stuff in his shop.When the pins are clean and the contact protection chemical has been  applied, connect and disconnect the flat cableat the main board and jackboard headers so the contacts can wipe one  another mututally and disloge any remaining contamination film that  could impair proper electrical conduction between the contacts.Then test the guitar in the GR-55 to see if all strings drive the synth.If all string signals appear in the tuner mode, then the guitar is  working OKand you can proceed to re-assemble the instrument.I'm not sure if you're aware of the subsonic over-sensitivity problem  in the GR-55,but you can learn more about it at 'vguitarforums'. Here's the link :https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=364ef99a5defbb88f1ea23aa581972d7&topic=3236.75I hope the information provided will be helpful. If you have any furtherquestions about RMC products, please don't hesitate to contact me.Best regards,RMC   Richard McClish"
Guitars: Ibanez Prestige S5470, Ibanez Jem 7v, Ibanez JS2410, PRS SE Custom24, Cort  Ltd G16, Ibanez RG370Ahmz,
MultiFX: Roland GR55, Zoom 1on, BOSS GT00
Loopers: Digitech trio+, Line 6 JM4
MIDI:, MAudio Axiom24 keyboard, Alesis IO Dock with iPad air 2

richfromne2

#24
look very carefully at the the string saddles. Are they touching each other ? If so move them so you can see clearance. I have a Godin Freeway and that was my problem.
regards
  Richard