New strategies for VG-88 Firmware Upgrades

Started by mshor, January 20, 2022, 10:16:39 AM

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mshor

Hi everybody,

It has been a while since I have been here much, but I was thinking about helping a friend get a VG-88, and the whole issue of firmware ("ROM") version 1 and 2, and all the upgrade issues discussed on this forum.  There is mention of people bricking the devices with the standard technique from Roland, and that they no longer offer to repair them from that.  This got me to thinking that maybe it is time to suggest a different method for dealing with these upgrades, given some modern availability of inexpensive tools for talking directly to chips, sometimes even in-circuit.  Has anyone tried directly flashing or dumping the ROMS in these systems?  I'm assuming Roland wouldn't object to that, especially because they don't seem to pay any attention to what consumers are doing with their stuff here at all.

I don't have a VG-88 right here to open up and check it out, but I'm guessing that the firmware exists on fairly standard chips that can be read out using commonly available tools and that the whole units should be re-flashable with a dump of their ROM.  It seems to me that if these methods were available, it would at least be a nice backup to the original official approach in case people make mistakes.  Along those lines, I also wondered if there are in fact a lot of these units somewhere sitting around with broken firmware.  I don't see anything like that on EB at the moment, but if I could find a unit fairly inexpensively I thought it might be interesting to test something like this.  If more people were on the V2 firmware, it might make for livelier patch exchange here, etc.  The other thing is that this would also potentially provide a way to revert to V1 firmware if someone really wanted to, for example, to read important V1 presets and translate them.

In the same vein, I think it might be nice in terms of repairability to create an archive of a bit more information and tools related to these devices, like some information on the various chips they use, etc. I just wondered if anyone had tried any of the staff, or had specific thoughts on this before I attempted it as an undertaking.  I could also imagine that it might be possible to do some more original stuff with ROM dumps, like changing COSM models or things like that, that, as far as I know, there has never been any public tools to do.

-Michael Shor "The Machine"

admin

#1
Quote from: mshor on January 20, 2022, 10:16:39 AM
Hi everybody,

It has been a while since I have been here much, but I was thinking about helping a friend get a VG-88, and the whole issue of firmware ("ROM") version 1 and 2, and all the upgrade issues discussed on this forum.  There is mention of people bricking the devices with the standard technique from Roland, and that they no longer offer to repair them from that.  This got me to thinking that maybe it is time to suggest a different method for dealing with these upgrades, given some modern availability of inexpensive tools for talking directly to chips, sometimes even in-circuit.  Has anyone tried directly flashing or dumping the ROMS in these systems?  I'm assuming Roland wouldn't object to that, especially because they don't seem to pay any attention to what consumers are doing with their stuff here at all.

I don't have a VG-88 right here to open up and check it out, but I'm guessing that the firmware exists on fairly standard chips that can be read out using commonly available tools and that the whole units should be re-flashable with a dump of their ROM.  It seems to me that if these methods were available, it would at least be a nice backup to the original official approach in case people make mistakes.  Along those lines, I also wondered if there are in fact a lot of these units somewhere sitting around with broken firmware.  I don't see anything like that on EB at the moment, but if I could find a unit fairly inexpensively I thought it might be interesting to test something like this.  If more people were on the V2 firmware, it might make for livelier patch exchange here, etc.  The other thing is that this would also potentially provide a way to revert to V1 firmware if someone really wanted to, for example, to read important V1 presets and translate them.

In the same vein, I think it might be nice in terms of repairability to create an archive of a bit more information and tools related to these devices, like some information on the various chips they use, etc. I just wondered if anyone had tried any of the staff, or had specific thoughts on this before I attempted it as an undertaking.  I could also imagine that it might be possible to do some more original stuff with ROM dumps, like changing COSM models or things like that, that, as far as I know, there has never been any public tools to do.

-Michael Shor "The Machine"

It's a bit like proposing to obtain a bank loan to  form a business to rebuild carburetors for Borgward Isabella
https://www.borgward.org.uk/Spare%20parts.htm

There are not that many VG-88's left the wild,

I'd steer folks to VG-99, GP-10, SY-1000 or an older VG-8EX

Meanwhile VG-88 Service Manual is available and a clever electronics tech could resurrect a dead VG-88, provided he also has a working VG-88 loaded with Firmware 2.0.

Roland stopped servicing them,, most parts are out of production

gumtown

My advise would be to leave well alone, at least it is working in its current state.
Problem with the earlier Roland gear was the devices neve had a separate "boot loader",
the boot loader was part of the firmware update, so if just one tiny error occurred, there is no coming back.
The SMD chips are not easily removable, so re-flashing is not really an option.

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Pfantom Pfoton

I've been lurking here for a long time, but I finally got a VG-88 and just successfully updated it from V1.02 to V2.00. I would like to share my thoughts about this subject because most people here seem to think this cannot be done without sending it to Roland (not sure if they even support this update anymore, but one does not need them anyway).

Since I couldn't find the update files online, I used the kit sold on eBay which included everything needed for the upgrade, including PDF instructions from Roland. The instructions from Roland are kind of written strangely in some parts and I had to read them a few times to make sure I fully understood them (someone should probably write more detailed instructions using better English to 100% foolproof the instructions, maybe I will do this soon). However, when following the instructions EXACTLY as written, it really can't go wrong. To be safe, I used a genuine Roland UM-ONE MIDI interface cable, and the UpdSMF Roland software to send the eight .mid files to the VG-88. I would not use a cheap Chinese interface cable, although cables from reputable brands are probably fine. I went with Roland just to be safe, and it was only a few dollars more than other name brands. The entire process took maybe 20 minutes, and was very easy. It literally required sending nine MIDI files in two different parts to the VG-88 (part 1 includes one MIDI file, then power down, power up and start part 2 which includes eight MIDI files as a group, then power down and do a factory reset).

Regarding bricked pedals -- I am not an expert on this subject by any means, but I have talked to people who are and I think they can be fixed, but it would certainly require some work. I think the ROM that contains the firmware is "IC5 on Main" in the service manual (Intel E28F800B5B70, https://www.ebay.com/itm/362555620898). Unfortunately it's soldered in the main board, but with a desoldering station the ROM could technically be removed and reflashed, then soldered back in (or worst case just use a new ROM), and then upgraded to V2 the proper way. The problem is obtaining the original V1 files, which might be needed as I don't think the V2 upgrade can be performed without V1 already being installed (this is pure speculation though). Does anyone happen to have the original files? I suppose the ROM from a working unit could be removed and then dumped.

I'm also talking to someone who thinks it might be possible to to repair these using an Arduino, but again the original files are needed.

admin

I performed the VG-88 V2 upgrade in 2003

The Roland SMFPlayer app running on Windows 98 defaulted to a mode which would automatically load all SMF Files sequentially - without allowing the important single file check sum return verification that occurs after each SMF


The problem with a "Bricked" VG-88 Main board is that era board lacked a dedicated /segmented memory boot loader.

-so a failed V2 firmware update from failed checksum and SMF Player stuck in a force feed auto increment mode often over wrote the boot loader

No one outside Roland has the Boot Loader files -these were not part of the released V2 SMF zip file.

Last I heard inventory of VG-88 main boards ran out in 2011 (eleven years after VG-88 production release.