Just Received ATG-1, initial impressions

Started by sec6, July 13, 2017, 03:02:14 PM

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sec6

Just got my Antares ATG-1 today.  Wow!  This 13-pin guitar processor is amazing.  I have my Roland GK pickup reverse mounted, and as I didn't see any "reverse" setting in the ATG-1, I had to do the reverse pickup mod.  After minor surgery, I plugged it in to the ATG-1, used the settings app to get the right scale, and pickup to bridge distances and it was working perfectly.  No warbles whatsoever!  The Roland processors can not compare to the quality of the modelling in the ATG-1.  I wish I didn't wait this long (but glad I did as the price is so low right now).  Blown away.  I tried to stay loyal to Roland, but this clinched it for me--I will no longer be a buyer of Roland products. 

Majiken

I can understand you in regard to guitar modeling (whereby the ATG lacks things like nylon and sitar, which you likely don't need); what about amp & fx modeling, what do you use for that?

I would compare the ATG more to a Variax, which I tried briefly maybe 4 years ago and sent back.  Do you have experience with a JTV, has that advanced significantly in the meantime?
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Majiken

Sec6, just saw your other post about what you play into- that's not live, though, is it?
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

admin

In 2017 the Antares ATG remains  the very best pitch Shifting and alt tuning device for divided pickup guitars

chlorinemist

If you could somehow try running a hex distortion signal (maybe with the GP-10 and USB i/O?) into the ATG-1 and test the pitch shifting performance post dirt. I have a 6Appeal that I've been wondering whether would work if placed in series before the ATG-1

cags12

I have not been able to hear any warble at all on my time with ATG, the only issue is that Antares's algorithm is more susceptible to distortion when cross-talk occurs, specially with piezos and high gain. This is the only reason I want to give Variaxes and Roland GR/GP a try.

But a part from that, ATG has been the most exciting piece of gear that has caught all my attention in a long time. I am crossing fingers they do  not pull the plug on the products and develop further the tech.

vtgearhead

The ATG-1 is great at glitch free pitch-shifted and 12-string sounds, but the guitar model emulation is just "meh.." in my opinion.  That, combined with the form-factor, led me to retire mine from live use.  My GC-1 + GP-10 produces pitch shift sounds that work fine for ensemble playing and the GP-10 fits in a corner of a 2U rack drawer.

I'm not holding my breath for any further firmware development from Antares.  My sense of this product is "end of life".




admin

Quote

I'm not holding my breath for any further firmware development from Antares.  My sense of this product is "end of life".

Actually they have a new engineering team working on continued development

Smash

Quote from: snhirsch on July 14, 2017, 05:11:37 AM
The ATG-1 is great at glitch free pitch-shifted and 12-string sounds, but the guitar model emulation is just "meh.." in my opinion

Only heard online demos but based on them Id agree - the modelling is underwhelming

Elantric

#9
Quote from: Smash on July 14, 2017, 08:44:17 AM
Only heard online demos but based on them Id agree - the modelling is underwhelming

Its important to setup the input gain setting on ATG-1 - i had to lower mine from the default before the modeling came alive

If you skip this important step you will encounter initial transient clipping distortion when you dig in with heavy picking   

Understanding the importance of Gain staging of your entire signal chain is crucial for success

Early on I just used my ATG-1 feeding a pair of ZT LunchBox amps in stereo  - and I was happy and impressed with all the ATG Guitar models   -AFTER I lowered the GK input for each string. and A/B' d with my real guitars to match the same levels 

This was an important step that I had to show Thomas Nordegg too


the best investment is get one ( or two) of these)  - to A/B rigs


http://www.t-rex-effects.com/polyswitch/

T-Rex PolySwitch AB STEREO LINE SWITCH


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SIGNAL INTEGRITY

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vtgearhead

Quote from: Elantric on July 14, 2017, 09:01:26 AM
Its important to setup the input gain setting on ATG-1 - i had to lower mine from the default before the modeling came alive

If you skip this important step you will encounter initial transient clipping distortion when you dig in with heavy picking   

Understanding the importance of Gain staging of your entire signal chain is crucial for success

No argument from me.  I have a substantial background in audio electronics and always pay attention to gain staging. 

My issue with the ATG-1 modeling is not related to transient overload, even when picked very lightly the strat model just does not sound like any strat I've ever played.  With bridge and middle pickup selected, I expect to hear some degree of "squank" or nasal phase cancellation artifacts.  The ATG-1 really does not do a good job here.  Some of the others are a bit better, but none hold a candle to my GP-10 (or even my now-retired JTV-69 Variax). My ideal would be a combination of Roland modeling with Antares pitch modification technology.

Regarding future firmware development:  I'll believe it when I see it.  The pace to this point has been glacial.

whippinpost91850


carlb

It would be marvelous for Antares to produce a 13-pin in to 13-pin output, strictly focusing on tuning and alt-tuning. It's what they're great at.

ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

drbill

Quote from: Elantric on July 14, 2017, 09:01:26 AM
Its important to setup the input gain setting on ATG-1 - i had to lower mine from the default before the modeling came alive

I just tried this over the weekend and it made a big difference. I cranked down the GK volume to -6db (max down) for all strings and the 2&4 strat positions started to sound right, but not over the entire neck. This seemed pretty odd. Perhaps I need more than 6db of attenuation?
GP-10, KPA
BM i2.13p, '76 Les Paul Deluxe w/GK-3, MiM RRS, Ibanez RG420GK, Charvel strat copy w/GK-2a, FTP

Elantric

the default ATG-1 setting will output a too hot signal   
using my LGXSA with ATG-1 into a ZT Lunchbox  - I just used the A/B box and lowered the input gain on ATG until it matched my real Strat > ZT LunchBox


drbill

Is the "Input Gain" an overall gain setting for the GK input? Their terminology isn't really defined.
GP-10, KPA
BM i2.13p, '76 Les Paul Deluxe w/GK-3, MiM RRS, Ibanez RG420GK, Charvel strat copy w/GK-2a, FTP

admin

#16
QuoteIs the "Input Gain" an overall gain setting for the GK input? Their terminology isn't really defined.

Seemed clear as a bell to me

ATG-1 Owners manual
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13067.0
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13067.0;attach=11371


See page 19

"GK input" gain = ATG-1 String Gain



Start with String Gain, then Input Gain, then Output Gain

===

Input Gain (Global)    Dialog  'Global In Gain:'

The ATG-1 has electronically controlled operational pre-amps that allow you to optimally gain the input data before A/D conversion.  The gains of -6, 0, +6 and +12 dB are selectable. The second line of the control is a meter. If the meter hits the far right on your loudest playing, there will be some distortion because of clipping. So work to set the gain as high as possible without clipping.


Output Gain (Global)    Dialog  'Global Output Gain:'

This is basically to address that the ATG-1 volume is not very loud on some amps when compared to certain guitars. The allowed range of this parameter is from 0 to +12dB, with a default value of +6dB. The software that implements this does not clip. Rather it uses an sample by sample remapping of amplitudes as data approaches the internal limits. This algorithm may produce some tonal changes as audio levels increase. To stop these tone changes, set the gain to zero and use the amplifier gain to compensate.


Tone Offset (Global)    Dialog  'Global Tone Offset:'

The tone control is set to a limited range typical of each modeled guitar as part of the model integrity. However, the tone of the instrument can be controlled to a much wider range. This Tone Offset gives you the ability to modify the range of the Tone Control.  Using Global Tone Offset, you can re-map the tone control to cover a very low to very high range. Be careful here:  If you've been to too many rock concerts, you may have lost some hearing, and what may sound good to you may be very irritating to someone else.

Global Tone Offset of zero (default) causes the Tone Control to model the guitar's typical response. Global Tone Offset can be set from -7 to +12.


String Gains (Global)    Dialog  'Global String Gains:'

Individual Gains can be set on each string from -6dB to +6dB. The intention is to equalize variations in the hex pickup sensing elements. However, you should also consider using these gains as a means to change the overall tone of the instrument, similar to tweaking the bass and treble controls of an amplifier.

To set the string gains, first dial in the string name (E1 is the low E string, up to E3 is the high E string), and then set the gain for that string. Double check your entries by scrolling through the string names.



and read the ATG Guitar pack Modeling guitars manual (these are included with every ATG-1
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13067.0;attach=11372

drbill

With my MiM RR Strat, I had to turn this gain up to get the meter to the midpoint, much less to clipping. So, instead of what the manual reads, I should turn it down so that the meter hardly registers in order for the models to sound correct?
GP-10, KPA
BM i2.13p, '76 Les Paul Deluxe w/GK-3, MiM RRS, Ibanez RG420GK, Charvel strat copy w/GK-2a, FTP

admin

Quote from: drbill on July 17, 2017, 01:31:45 PM
With my MiM RR Strat, I had to turn this gain up to get the meter to the midpoint, much less to clipping. So, instead of what the manual reads, I should turn it down so that the meter hardly registers in order for the models to sound correct?

It's important to strum extremely hard when setting the AtG String Gain sensitivity setting

I don't just light fingerpick when I'm setting up the string Gain. Instead I use a Pete Townsend power stroke and watch to avoid max VU deflection clipping on the LCD

drbill

Quote from: admsustainiac on July 17, 2017, 01:44:15 PM
I don't just light fingerpick when I'm setting up the string Gain. Instead I use a Pete Townsend power stroke and watch to avoid max VU deflection clipping on the LCD

lol I never lightly fingerpick. I pretty much play with my fists. Anyway, yeah I was hitting it really hard. At any rate, I'm nowhere near clipping the input according to their meter. I'll try with lower gain and see if the improves the models. Cutting the GK levels made a huge change for the better.
GP-10, KPA
BM i2.13p, '76 Les Paul Deluxe w/GK-3, MiM RRS, Ibanez RG420GK, Charvel strat copy w/GK-2a, FTP

aliensporebomb

Sweetwater is blowing these out for $399 now.  Seems a no brainer to expand your options if you already have a VG-99, GP-10, GR-55 etc.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Rhcole

You can also buy directly from Antares for the same price now.
There they go!