So, what do you think Roland *was* thinking? (non-compliant USB-MIDI)

Started by carlb, September 26, 2016, 04:38:42 PM

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carlb

Hi Robert,

You've worked with Roland's USB-MIDI implementation and sysex and cc stuff for quite a while now.

Although we can't ever be certain, have you come to any "I'll betchyas" about why Roland would have implemented a non-compliant USB/MIDI? With that on top of not having MIDI connections on the GP-10 ... almost shot themselves in their collective foot.

Easier not to have to implement a compliant version? Or were they figuring they'd force a "Roland-Only" solution or such?

Regardless, thanks for persevering through all of the puzzle-solving, problem-solving, and stick-to-it-ness needed to put together products that provide the "connection glue" for all kinds of MIDI gear to the new Roland equipment. (For the Fender Mustang amps too, apparently. Cool!)

What's perfect is I don't have to bring a laptop or a tablet to the gig. Just plug-in the MIDX-20 and go. :)
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Elantric

Quotehave you come to any "I'll betchyas" about why Roland would have implemented a non-compliant USB/MIDI?

Its typical for most USB Audio hardware to require a software driver.

Roland will argue in this manner they can provide 24 bit audio with lowest latency for MS Windows PC's using a Steinberg (yamaha) licensed ASIO driver with ASIO control panel and buffer settings,  as well as a dedicated Core Audio Driver and Control panel for OSX ( Apple)

Those were minimum requirement specs for Roland / Boss

There are exceptions -  VG-99 / VB-99 have an option in their settings to assign the USB port to operate in "USB Standard"  Mode - which is USB Class compliant (and works with iPads)  - but limited to 16 bit audio 

And the Roland UA-22 Duo Capture EX is a 24 bit USB Class compliant Audio  / MIDI interface that works with iPads  and has an ASIO DRIVER and OSX Core Audio Driver - so clearly Roland has the "know how" - but they are selective with products that support USB Class compliance. 


However the competition has been delivering 24 bits and low latency and USB Class compliance for years.  (Focusrite Scarlett, Novation X-Station)

Bulk of design engineers think USB Class compliance is limited to 16 bits only  - such as most Zoom products only transport 16 bits over USB.

But since 2005, Harman- Digitech has been delivering 24 bit USB Class Compliance for most of their products with USB Audio capabilities ( GNX3000, GSP1101, RP500, RP1000, Lexicon Omega )

Big list of current USB Class compliant products are here:

http://www.wavemachinelabs.com/Support/auria-audio-interfaces     

More info on USB Class Compliance is here

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11781.0

Often the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing

Here's the final USB AUDIO CLASS COMPLIANT SPECIFICATION

And Roland co-authored it . . .
http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/devclass_docs/Audio2.0_final.zip




carlb

Hey, thanks Steve. I guess like almost all businesses, only some of what can be done by the engineers gets green-lighted. And I'll guess Roland DSP and MIDI engineers (probably a few left, even with Roland mostly just re-hashing their IP these days) have been told to focus their efforts elsewhere. (The SY300 comes to mind.)

So if it was going to take a few weeks to work-out and get well tested, it wasn't going to happen. Don't go beyond what is green-lighted by marketing, even when engineers know it will help the product for the longer term. It's also why Roland releases extremely few firmware updates.

Sigh.

Makes me appreciate when a few enthusiasts take things to the next level!
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

CodeSmart

I agree to what Steve and Carl is saying.

It would have been very easy for them to implement a USB
setting Basic/Advanced were the Basic mode just provided the In and Out endpoints for regular MIDI control without any Audio stream in a compliant fashion.
The Advanced mode could have been like today.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!