Long Live Tube Amps

Started by Elantric, March 20, 2014, 09:35:52 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Elantric

Here is an article from recent online version of Electronic Design Mag.-  thought i would share


http://electronicdesign.com/search/results/tube%20amps


Quote
Long Live Vacuum Tube Amps
Mar 17, 2014 by Lou Frenzel

Commentary on the long life of vacuum tubes.
Vacuum tube amplifiers just won't go away.  I am speaking more of audio vacuum tube amps than I am of microwave amps like magnetrons, klystrons, TWTs and the like.  Most other audio gear is solid state so why are there still vacuum tube amps?  My grandson asked me that recently and it was hard to explain this phenomenon.   What I basically said is that vacuum tubes amps sound better than solid state amps, to some people.  I had no way to follow up or demo this effect.

I have actually compared solid state audio power amps to the vacuum tube equivalents several times and using the same speakers.  (It seems to me that the speakers would have more of an effect on the sound than the type of amplifier.)   I could discern a difference between the two.  I do not have the words to describe the difference.  It is akin to comparing wines in a tasting.  There are words for that but they are also vague and subjective to be sure.  So it is with audio sounds.  I have actually heard people say they can tell the difference between two different sets of speaker cables and connectors.  I still don't believe it.

So are vacuum tubes amps better?  I'm not sure.  They do still sound very good and for me it also depends on the music being played.  Guitar players almost universally favor vacuum tube amplifiers.  There are certainly enough vacuum tube audio power amp manufacturers to support the niche.  I ran across one called Frenzel Tube Amps in Texas.  No relation to me. These guys build custom amps for audio systems and musicians.  And there are a dozen or so other tube amp companies.  Amazing.

Not only that, I recently discovered a new book Building Valve Amplifiers, 2nd edition by Morgan Jones.  It is a highly detailed book on the actual design and construction of tube amplifiers.  Published by Newnes/Elsevier, the book covers planning, metalworking, wiring and testing.  A real nitty gritty book for hobbyists and serious manufacturers.  For example, the book details things like how to orient audio and power transformers to avoid problems of magnetic flux leakage from affecting other transformers or the tubes themselves.  The test section is excellent.  You may even learn where to find a loctal socket for a 7N7.

Incidentally the book is a companion to the book Valve Amplifiers, 4th edition also by Morgan Jones and published by Newnes/Elsevier.  This is a serious design book with details on audio circuit design, equations and related topics.  A 4th edition means that the book has been around for a while and is being updated and there is a real market for it.

Anyway, I no long have any tubes or tube equipment around.  Very early in my career I worked as an engineer in industrial electronics and I recall that I could make almost anything I needed with a 12AU7, 12AX7 and/or a relay.  The early germanium PNP 2N1305s did not cut it. Those days are gone for good.  And even my ham gear is solid state although one can still buy RF power amps with multiple kinds of vacuum tubes.  It is hard to beat them for power RF in the HF range.  LDMOS amps are available too but more expensive. And I suspect we will see some GaN ham power amps at modest prices in the near future.  But I am not betting on the demise of the vacuum tube.

Building Valve Amplifiers

Valve Amplifier - Third Edition (Morgan Jones)

Kevin M

#1
Some decent notes here as well:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_sound

Mrchevy

What a small world, my father-in-law just emailed me with this same article a couple of days ago. With him being a retired electronics engineer and my recent interest in finally getting into tube amps, he thought it might interest me. We've talked about building one just for a project together. I'm really liking my  new H&K Tubemeister 18 but hey, you can never have to many amps. I was thinking of picking up that book mentioned in the article.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

kentchorder

Cannot agree more with your intro thoughts.... (sorry if I am not exactly on the subject of tube amps)


I can get quite convincing 'tube' sound just using BK Tube Driver and and agree with your idea that '  (It seems to me that the speakers would have more of an effect on the sound than the type of amplifier.)

I just got 2x ADA GCS



Work surprisingly well as cabinet simulator especially booming with closed cabinet switch on... also



is quite good to emulate 'blooming' effect of tube amps.

CHeers!

aliensporebomb

I've been using my Mesa Studio Preamp for over 20 years here.  It's got 4 12AX7 and 1 12AT7 and sounds quite wonderful the majority of the time.  Really lovely.

I've long wanted a rack poweramp to match it like the 20/20 or a 50/50.  Someday.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

kentchorder

Hi,

you mean

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rectifier_Series/RectoPreAmps/RectoPreAmp.html ?

This one is on my shopping list, they do not make them anymore, quite hard to get one, but watching it on eBay....

Cheers!




arkieboy

It isn't even old ears either that prefer them.  My 17yo son plays guitar and is about to buy his first proper guitar amplifier


He's a wide range of stuff to choose from - from Helix Native which we played around with for a while, through my hardware Helix LT, his pedals and practice amp (he has decent pedals - all gear I would use myself if he gave up), my Marshall rack, the solid state Blackstar amps supplied by www.therockproject.com in Oxford where he's learning bandcraft - waaay more educated than I was at his age - and what does he want as his first amp?


We've played loads more stuff in music shops, and you know what he's settled on?  An Orange TH30H.  Plugged in, played a chord, his face lit up.  Sold.
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

admin

#10
Quote from: arkieboy on November 28, 2018, 04:29:38 AM


We've played loads more stuff in music shops, and you know what he's settled on?  An Orange TH30H.  Plugged in, played a chord, his face lit up.  Sold.

Good choice!
https://orangeamps.com/products/guitar-amp-heads/th-guitar-heads/th30-head/

chrish

Quote from: aliensporebomb on March 23, 2014, 06:25:57 AM
I've been using my Mesa Studio Preamp for over 20 years here.  It's got 4 12AX7 and 1 12AT7 and sounds quite wonderful the majority of the time.  Really lovely.

I've long wanted a rack poweramp to match it like the 20/20 or a 50/50.  Someday.

Did you ever get the power amp to match the mesa preamp.

From the mesa posted link.

"Over the years we have watched a digital parade of "me-too modeling toys" try to seduce you. But we chose an alternative approach to modeling ...it's called REALITY. "

Of course, why not have it all. :)

aliensporebomb

Quote from: chrish on November 28, 2018, 08:44:41 AM
Did you ever get the power amp to match the mesa preamp.

From the mesa posted link.

"Over the years we have watched a digital parade of "me-too modeling toys" try to seduce you. But we chose an alternative approach to modeling ...it's called REALITY. "

Of course, why not have it all. :)

Not as of yet.  I've been looking for a clean example of one of the matching racked power amps to go with it.  Not that I really need it because I'm not doing live gigs with my conventional rig of late, all my live gigs in the last half decade have been with my VG-setup.  I should get something though!
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

admin

Quote from: aliensporebomb on November 28, 2018, 09:13:54 AM
Not as of yet.  I've been looking for a clean example of one of the matching racked power amps to go with it.  Not that I really need it because I'm not doing live gigs with my conventional rig of late, all my live gigs in the last half decade have been with my VG-setup.  I should get something though!

https://reverb.com/item/16799239-mesa-boogie-20-20-stereo-el84-power-amplifier-brand-new-full-set-of-mesa-boogie-el84-and-12ax7-tubes-included

GeePeeAxe

I had a Triaxis preamp for some 10 years and was quite happy with it, but for classic rock and blues tones I had to go for all-tube-amps. For home use or recording it was necessery to buy or build attenuators. Got now 2 selfmade attenuators, and ordered a cheap attenuator "made in China" a few days ago. Gonna report if the sound is OK or not, with this 80 euro powersoak.

Yeah, and last but not least: I dont think that I will use any digital amp sim in the near future. Maybe some digital multi-FX in the FX-loop of my tube amplifiers. Why sould I use something faked, when I can afford the REAL THING?

chrish

#15
Quote from: aliensporebomb on November 28, 2018, 09:13:54 AM
Not as of yet.  I've been looking for a clean example of one of the matching racked power amps to go with it.  Not that I really need it because I'm not doing live gigs with my conventional rig of late, all my live gigs in the last half decade have been with my VG-setup.  I should get something though!
I run my vg99 and all other synths into a mixer that goes to an ADA microtube 100w Stereo Poweramp into some  Old 2 -15"  jbl's and tweeters.

Guitar mags and gr 300 go to micro tube preamp with analog effects into mixer.

I bet that mesa boogie would sound great for ambient music and any mag pup guitar tone.

After the final D/A conversion on digital gear, it's nice to take that converted analog signal and send it back into something analog.

aliensporebomb

Funny you should mention that - I recorded an entire record with the Mesa Studio preamp, Lexicon Vortex and TC Electronic GSharp in the effects loop, an Electro Harmonix Stereo Memory Man with Hazarai and a Boss OC-2 octave divider and I'm considering releasing it.  I did it just before I got the VG and it sounds pretty decent for an ambient production using "regular" equipment. 
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.


GeePeeAxe

Regarding studio techniques:

Almost every recording that hit the charts was made into tube preamps/compressors first, than mixed and put in the can (magnet tape or digital harddisk). I have read recently that even Abbey Road Studios used old Siemens or Telefunken tube compressors on almost every record that counts today to rock or pop classics.

My choice of guitar tone:

I am still fascinated by the sound of Larry Carlton, especially his bluesy lead tones. It was a shock for me to see (utube-video) that he used mostl times only 1 guitar and 1 Fender amp with the 5e3 circuit, maybe not with a stock speaker. These days I tweak my 3 alltube amps to sound similar. Of course: attenuators are almost always needed at home.

Maybe we should start a separate topic about attenuators...


admin

#19
Quote from: GeePeeAxe on November 29, 2018, 02:15:39 AM
Regarding studio techniques:

Almost every recording that hit the charts was made into tube preamps/compressors first, than mixed and put in the can (magnet tape or digital harddisk). I have read recently that even Abbey Road Studios used old Siemens or Telefunken tube compressors on almost every record that counts today to rock or pop classics.

My choice of guitar tone:

I am still fascinated by the sound of Larry Carlton, especially his bluesy lead tones. It was a shock for me to see (utube-video) that he used mostl times only 1 guitar and 1 Fender amp with the 5e3 circuit, maybe not with a stock speaker. These days I tweak my 3 alltube amps to sound similar. Of course: attenuators are almost always needed at home.

Maybe we should start a separate topic about attenuators...

I cant think of too many records where the guitar track ( Guitar > Tube Amp > Speaker Mic> Mix board ) was untouched prior to public release  ( in post production adding compression, EQ, Ambient effects prior to final mixdown and Mastering)

https://www.audio-issues.com/music-mixing/top-10-guitar-mixing-techniques/
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/understanding-recording-guitar-speakers
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/production


except for this one






GeePeeAxe

#20
Oh yeah: Link Wray RUMBLE, a masterpiece of instrumental music!

Did you know that it was indexed in most of Northamerican states? Music with no text, what is wrong?

The explanation is to find in a documentary movie "Rumble The Indians Who Rocked The World".

Whatch it and you will frown as hell, guaranteed.

admin

#21
Quote from: GeePeeAxe on November 29, 2018, 10:39:18 AM
Oh yeah: Link Wray RUMBLE, a masterpiece of instrumental music!

Did you know that it was indexed in most of Northamerican states? Music with no text, what is wrong?

The explanation is to find in a documentary movie "Rumble The Indians Who Rocked The World".

Whatch it and you will frown as hell, guaranteed.

Trivia  - Link Wray worked many dances, and while attempting to appease the crowd who requested they play "The Stroll" - they improvised and came up with "Rumble"  - and recorded it soon after


and within a year it was banned on may radio stations  - fearing it would incite gang violence, the term  "Rumble"  was featured in a broadway play in 1957 ( later a major movie in 1961 "West Side Story" about New York Gangs in the 1950's 





http://www.pophistorydig.com/topics/link-wray-rumble/

"Rumble" Riles Censors
1958-1959


A guitar tune written in 1958 has the distinction of being the only instrumental song ever banned for radio play in the U.S. 
The song's name was "Rumble," performed by a guitarist named Link Wray and his band, the Wraymen.
The song's offensive nature, apparently, had to do with the fear that it might incite gang violence. More on that in a moment. First, some context.

     In January 1958, there were live dance nights held in Fredericksburg, Virginia hosted by the popular Washington, D.C. television disc jockey named Milt Grant — of Milt Grant's House Party, a teen dance show similar to Dick Clark's American Bandstand in Philadelphia.  At one of these live dance events that January, Link Wray and his band, a local group, were being urged to come up with a song like "The Stroll," then a popular hit by The Diamonds. What Wray and his group came up with instead was an instrumental; a power-guitar driven, blues type song that would later become known as "Rumble."


Old poster of Fredericksburg, VA arena, where Link Wray & band first performed the song "Rumble."     At the dance that night in Fredericksburg, the song was quite popular, as Wray and his band did four requested encores. The dance crowd's reaction to the song made Wray and his band think — along with disc jockey Milt Grant, their de facto manager — that they were on to something. So they set about trying to get the song on tape for a demo to shop it around to record labels.
However, when they tried to record it, they could not quite duplicate the sound they had on the dance night, especially frustrating Wray.  That's when he started moving speakers and mics around to get feedback, and then took a pencil and began punching holes through an amplifier to get the sound he wanted. What Wray had done in his frustration was "invent" a new sound, a sound that would later become known as "fuzztone guitar." There was also some novel use of variable tremolo on the track as well.

Meanwhile, the song they had recorded on their demo was then using the name "Oddball." And they began shopping it around to record labels, but there were no takers. Capitol and Decca Records both turned down "Oddball."




Milt Grant then took the demo to Archie Bleyer of Cadence Records in New York.  When Bleyer first heard the song, he hated it and the novel sound that Link Wray had created.  Still, he recorded some demos, not sure what would happen next.  Bleyer's stepdaughter and some of her teenage friends, however, loved the song.  One story has it that she was the one who suggested naming it "Rumble" because it reminded her of West Side Story, a popular stage play about rival New York street gangs.  West Side Story had debuted on Broadway in 1957 and "rumble" was then the popular slang term for "gang fight."  Another account credits one of the Everly Brothers with coming up with the same name for the song.  In any event, the tune became "Rumble" and Bleyer decided to release the song despite his dislike for it.  Quoted in a promotional article in Billboard magazine at the time, Bleyer reportedly said something to the effect: "Rumble, schmumble, who cares, as long as it's a hit?"


Link Wray's 1958 hit "Rumble" on the Cadence record label – a short lived venture for Wray, who would later move on to other record labels. Click for updated vinyl by Sundazed, NY.     "Rumble" wasn't exactly the lightest, easy listening fare of the day, true enough.  Still, rock 'n roll by then was finding its voice and raucuous edge.  Although the term "rock and roll" dates to song lyrics from the 1920s and 1930s, a Cleveland disc jockey named Alan Freed in 1951 is credited with introducing the term to a much larger audience, especially through his play and promotion of African American rhythm & blues (R&B) music in the 1950s.  New white artists, picking up on the R&B sound in some of their recordings, were also finding an audience.  Bill Haley had "Rock Around the Clock" by mid-1955, and Elvis Presley had "Don't Be Cruel" and "Hound Dog" by the fall of 1956.  Both Haley and Presley had riled convention with their own rock 'n roll styles.  Still, rock 'n roll music was by no means the dominant sound of the day.  There was still plenty of more sedate, "easy listening" music to be found on the Billboard top twenty in the mid- and late-1950s — music from artists such as Andy Williams, Perry Como, Pat Boone, Tab Hunter, and others.  "Rumble," by comparison, was all instrumental, but a tune that had a distinct "attitude" about it.  The guitar riffs in "Rumble" stood out, and went well beyond the moment.  The musical sound created by Wray, and his distinctive playing, would soon have a direct effect on the future of rock and guitar music.  "With one mean D-to-E chord change," observes writer Angie Carlson in a 2007 Gibson.com article, "Link Wray changed the electric guitar forever."


"Rumble" Not Played

     But in the late 1950s, radio disc jockeys had the power of determining what music was played and what wasn't.  And in some cities and towns, including radio stations in Boston and New York City, "Rumble" just wasn't played for fear it could incite gang violence or be an influence on juvenile delinquency. Even Dick Clark of American Bandstand was careful to avoid mention- ing the song's title when introducing Wray on his Saturday show. The song's title  — "Rumble" — was a stumbling block for some DJs; they just couldn't get past it.  However, the song itself, an instrumental, had no lyrics of course, so there was no language per se to incite kids; no fiery rhetoric.  Still, those aware of the controversy took precautions.  Even Dick Clark of American Bandstand, the popular TV dance show, was careful to avoid mentioning the song's title when he introduced Wray and his band as guests in May 1958.

     Rock 'n roll music was not always welcomed back then, and in fact, there were some efforts nationally to block the more objectionable sounds, suggestive lyrics, and loud or raucous music.  Band leader Mitch Miller was one of those who helped put a damper on the more raucous forms of rock 'n roll.  Miller was then head of A&R — "artists and repertoire" — for Columbia Records, and as such, had the power to determine which musicians and songs would be recorded and promoted at Columbia and beyond.  Miller had some of his own hit tunes on the Billboard charts of the 1950s.  But he also had broad influence at the time, and was publicly critical of rock 'n roll and Top 40 radio stations that played rock 'n roll.  Miller, however, did allow for some lighter forms rock 'n roll, such as the 1957 million-selling hit by Marty Robbins, "A White Sport Coat and a Pink Carnation," which he helped produce.


"Rumble" scene, 1957 stage production of "West Side Story" -- Jets leader vs. Sharks leader in knife fight. Click for film.
     In addition, West Side Story's gang scenes had permeated popular culture by 1957-58.  In fact, a dance scene in Act 1 of the play is titled "The Rumble," and other scenes also showed the activities of the play's two featured gangs, the Jets and Sharks. "Juvenile delinquency" was a national topic of discussion by then as well, even attracting the attention of the U.S. Congress. There was also proposed legislation in Congress in 1957 that song lyrics be screened and altered by a review committee before being broadcast or offered for sale. That legislation, treading on free speech, never became law, but it was a sign of the times and part of the broader cultural concern then revolving around gangs and juvenile delinquency. In 1958 the Mutual Broadcasting System dropped all rock 'n roll from its network music programs, calling it "distorted, monotonous, noisy music." Link Wray's instrumental was part of the music that became entangled in those fears and prohibitions.



     Nevertheless, despite all the tiptoeing around "Rumble" as a musical instigator of teen trouble, the song became a huge hit, rising to No. 16 in May 1958 and remaining in the Top 40 for 10 weeks.  Despite Dick Clark's care not to mention the song's title at Wray's earlier 1958 appearance, Bandstand did give the song enough air time to help it along, and Clark would freely use the song's title in subsequent appearances by Wray in 1959 and 1963.  In fact, the attempted suppression of the song by some radio stations likely contributed to its success, as Wray himself would later surmise of the radio bans.  "Rumble" went on to sell more than one million copies in its prime, with some estimates as high as four million, though it's not clear what time frame is involved and whether sales of albums with the song are also included. 

     Link Wray, however, would not get a giant share of the royalties or music publishing fees from "Rumble."  Milt Grant, the DJ, was one co-author of the song, appearing on the Cadence label with "L. Wray."  But Link's share, according to one account, appears to have been assigned to his father.  Link would later say that he did receive enough money to buy his mother a house, but that he was generally spared the details of the "paperwork," which appears to have kept his share lower than it might otherwise have been.  He may have fared better with subsequent songs.

     Meanwhile, back in the late 1950s, Archie Bleyer of Cadence Records — the guy who had first produced "Rumble" — was getting some external criticism for releasing the song. Bleyer was charged by some critics with "promoting teenage gang warfare." Bleyer, nevertheless, thought he could "clean up" Link Wray and his group. Bleyer's plan was to have the group record in Nashville, Tennessee under the guidance of the Everly Brothers' production team. But the Wrays didn't like that idea, and decided to part company with Bleyer and Cadence Records. They soon joined Epic Records, recording a 1959 follow-up to "Rumble" called "Rawhide," also an instrumental, which rose to No. 23 on the pop charts. In subsequent years, the group also had other notable songs, including "Jack the Ripper" (1961), "Black Widow" (1963), "Big City After Dark" "Run Chicken Run" (1963), "Ace of Spades" (1965), "Switchblade," and "Red Hot (1977). Thereafter, Link Wray would not hit the pop charts in quite the same way again, but would have influence in other ways






https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/understanding-recording-guitar-speakers