GP-10 programming for solo/duo players who want some bass added

Started by musical_edmond, October 10, 2018, 11:05:10 AM

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musical_edmond

I recently got a GP10 knowing that it would take some tweaking to get the best from it (as a longtime owner of a VG99).  My initial impressions were very high, the acoustic and amp modelling are both considerably improved in tone and dynamic range.  So most of my work has been to get my preferred VG99 setup on this cut-down unit for simpler gig setups.

I'm writing this in case what I've learned has any use for other GP10 users.  While the topic subject above gives the main intention, to add a usable bass to my guitar patches, there are some other tweaks here which may be of use to anyone trying to get the most from their GP10 - especially the possibilities for using the 8 Assign slots.

When I play solo/duo, I like to add a bass sound to my lower E and A strings.  This was easy in the VG99 because it has 2 model channels, so one could be dedicated to bass in a patch.  I'll give an outline how I achieved this in the GP10 and can go deeper if there are questions.

To cut to the end first, the result is as follows:

Patch Name         CTL 1   CTL 2     Pedal    Ped Sw  GK Vol    GK sw1   GK sw2
===============    ======  =======   ======   =====   =======   ======   =====
01 Acoustic+Bs     Boost   12 Str    Volume   Boost   Bass Vol  12 Str   Rick
02 Musicman+Bs     OD      Chorus    Volume   Boost   Bass Vol  Tremolo  Marshall
03 Bass + Guitar   OD      Chorus    Volume   Boost   Bass Vol  Tremolo  Marshall
04 DropD Dadgad    Boost   DADGAD    Volume   Boost   Bass Vol  12 Str   Rick
05 Open C A G      Minor   A / G     Volume   Boost   Bass Vol  12 Str   Rick
06 Open G E D      Minor   E / D     Volume   Boost   Bass Vol  12 Str   Rick
07 Nash + Mand     -----   Mandolin  Volume   Boost   Bass Vol  12 Str   Rick


Using the basic GP10 hardware (I had used an FC300 pedal board) I have a very flexible gigging setup.

Let me give you the highlights behind this deceptively simple setup and hopefully that will prompt someone's interest to ask "how" or even "why".  I didn't want to be presumptuous in case there isn't the interest. 

All patches have the option to add bass.  Patches 02 and 03 use my own Musicman pickups alongside modeled bass.  I am extremely pleased with the range of pickup sounds from my own guitar as the amp and overdrive effects are so much better than the VG99.  I can demo if there's an interest.

Here are some suggestions:

- The bass sound is obviously produced by pitch shifting the lower E&A strings down an octave.  You may ask "won't you lose the sound of the normal pitch E&A strings".  So I used the 12 string section to produce the bass sound and it appears alongside the original string sounds.  It sounds great.  What about when I want to use the 12 string option (as above)?  I've used a variety of techniques (sometimes pedal shift section, sometimes other ways) to still produce the same effect.  And with each option, I still can use the GK volume to easily bring in or out the bass sound.

- Patches 02 and 03 have an unusual bass operation.  With the main volume pedal off, the bass only sound is across 4 (patch 02) or 6 (patch 03) strings.  Pressing the volume pedal brings up the guitar and fades out the extra bass strings, leaving guitar and only the E&A bass strings.

- With few GP10 pedals and its one general effect module it's useful to be able to switch between effects.  So I programmed GK SW1 (see patch 02 above) to toggle between Overdrive and Tremolo (my preferred effect after the provided Chorus and Echo modules).  The CTL1 pedal switches the selected FX on/off.  Or press GK SW1 while CTL1 is on to toggle between the effects. 

NB: It's useful to note that the GP10 will save all settings, even for modules not selected on screen.  I frequently use this technique to switch between modules (like Model or FX or Amp) or between sections within module (like between model guitars).

- The GK SW2 "Rick" setting above refers to using the aforementioned switching between guitar models to switch between acoustic and electric.  Obviously I'm using a clean amp setting for the acoustic but it sounds like a Rickenbacker when switching to the "Bright Humbucker" model.  Works especially well as a 12 string Ricky.

- The first 2 patches do for 90% of my playing.  The remaining patches are just tuning variations.  Note the "Minor" on CTL1.  This momentary pedal will drop an open chord from major to minor.  Very useful, especially if using a slide.  It uses the pedal shift module.  There are other hidden gems there but this note is long enough already.

I hope the above sparks some interest.  I end this with one question and one wish:

- Does anyone know how to use Assign to create a rotation (not just a toggle) of settings - similar to the one given for moving between 3 or 5 pickups?  For example, I'd like toggle between my preferred guitars or amps within a patch.  So my virtual guitar would select between "Les Paul Bridge" - "Strat twang" - "Tele Middle" - "335 Neck" and maybe matching amps too.

- Given my preference for adding bass for solo/duo work, low-string-priority would have been a useful addition to the modeling modules.  Maybe could be added to the Poly FX?  Would save me have to finger-mute my A string when adding an E bass note.

Ed

BadMucker111

If there could be a low note priority option to do add to this the game might change forever.
Out of curiosity, have you ever tried the Mini Pog or Pog Nano? Not really comparable in the sense that the GP-10 is so much cleaner and tweakable, however.... the POG seems to handle the polyphonic angle a bit better when it comes to the Drop the Tone an Octave thing and play a bunch of other strings.
I know, I know what everyone will say (No man....this is soooo much better)
Somehow I think I'm gonna possibly incorporate a Nano Pog to run in conjunction with the GP-10 and see what comes out the other end... hopefully its not you know... (hahaha!)

musical_edmond

Interesting that you should mention these as I've done quite a bit of research on sub-synths and pitch shifters.  I'm not a fan of the near-sine-wave sub synths and octavers.  Tried the old GK-driven OC-20G but it sounds awful.  I was looking for something with more of a bass guitar character and so prefer quality octave pitch shifting.  I also ruled out midi for playability reasons.

Something like the EHX Pitch Fork seems to come most recommended but still doesn't give the required 'low-note-priority'.  There are pitch shifters which cleverly limit the note range of what's being shifted, typically to a semitone below the G string using pitch detection, not a GK. This is effective but will still sound two bass notes if a chord is played, for example will sound a low F and a low C when a full F chord is played.  The core of the problem.

I found a product called "Polybass" that although aimed as a Godin guitar retrofit, does apparently work with GK-equipped guitars.  It produces low-note-priority bass from the bottom 3 strings using a hex pickup.  Seems a close match to what I need so I'm exchanging emails with the main guy at the moment to see what's involved in a standalone unit and of course what the bass sounds like.

If not suitable then I'm going to prototype an idea I have using a ducker pedal and an EHX Pitch Fork. 

Frankly I'm surprised there isn't more demand for this approach to adding bass.  Maybe everyone is too friendly with their bass player.  Especially surprised that Roland/Boss isn't including it as surely it would be low-cost to implement when processing a hex input.

Larsson

Very interesting read, thank you very much.

For moments when I can dedicate GP-10 as my bass player and route my guitar through some other system, I've tried two approaches.
1. Set CTL1 to toggle between which string is muted, E or A. Then have CTL2 to momentarily toggle D string on.
2. Have two identical patches with only difference that in one E string is active and on the other A string is active. Then limit patch range to only those two patches, so whenever you press either patch up or down, it will switch between E and A. Then again have CTL2 bring D string on in both patches.

Both setups are a lot of work, quite cumbersome and (at least for me) error prone but can be done and allows strumming without the need of silencing strings. In setup 1 it helps to put a pedal to CTL3/4 jack and use that, CTL1 and CTL2 are in a bit awkward place to use all the time. By putting CTL3 and 4 to momentary and apply E and A strings to those, you can for example make nice short bass accents while still strumming away like a madman on the guitar.

But I'm interested to hear your progress. Low note priority is something I'd love to achieve too and the reason I found this topic. I'm not advanced in programming GP-10 so I do not know if there is some assign that could take an info from some frequency and mute strings based on that or something in the lines of that? If GP-10 can't do low note priority, it would be interesting to know if SY-1000 could pull it off.