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Boss GP-10 V-Guitar System => Boss GP-10 Top things to know => Topic started by: Alex on February 05, 2018, 02:12:39 AM

Title: GP10 - getting a good metal palm muting sound
Post by: Alex on February 05, 2018, 02:12:39 AM
I mostly play metal in various tuning (hence the need of GP10 for alt tuning) and after a year I finally found how to get a decent palm muting sound.
The revelation came after I decided to remove the GK from my Yamaha floyd rose guitar (on which I had to remove the humbucker due to lack of space) on my Cort KX1 equipped with EMG81.

I then started to compare in E tuning the difference in sound with the EMG81 and the Bright Humbucker simulation and the difference was huge: the simulation got way too much bass in it while the EMG81 produce a cleaner sound but yet with enough power in the bass to not have a thick palm muting sound.

Therefore I started to tweak my patch using the following effect loop: pickup sim -> eq -> main -> fx (clean boost) -> amp
while previously I was doing : pickup sim -> main -> fx (t-scream) -> amp -> eq

Now I use the eq to tweak the sound of the pickup simulation (mostly LP) and I apply the following EQ settings:
bass: 0 to +6db (to add body to the palm muting sound)
medium eq: -20db to -12db freq at 80hz q at 0.5 (to add clarity to the palm muting sound)
high eq: ever a slight cut at -2db at 1.6khz q at 0.5 or a boot of +2db at 1.6khz or 3.15khz (to get a darker sound or a crisp sound)

The FX is just a clean boost to raise the volume and add a bit of distortion if needed.
For the amp I'm now mostly using 4x10 cab sim with DYN57.

To my biggest surprised everything came to life, the palm muting are sharp and crispy and amps like 5150, SLDN and JCM900 are now usable. I spent many time in tweaking the post EQ, learned a lot but never achieved the result I wanted. Now it sounds way better and fit better in the mix when I play along songs. I'll try to post soundclip in the upcoming weeks.

I've seen Elantric will talk with the product manager in the future. While I'm now pleased with my system I still think there's room for improvement:
- pickup sim: I don't know if it's my guitar or whatever but when I compare my EMG81 with the Bright humbucker there's too many differences (way too much bass and lack of clarity here). I don't expect the sim to match exactly but then we should allow the user to have another dedicated EQ and not sacrifice one in post EQ. While I'm pleased now I would not mind having another FX slot (compression) in front of the amp and another EQ after the amp or an Exciter (may be better to use a BBE analog one ?)
- GK/ Noise gate: the use of very low alt tuning adds a lot of noise not removed by the NS. I wonder if having the NS before the alt tuning would be better ? Currently I'm using the EQ to remove 1.6khz and High when I'm using low tuning like Drop C
- cab sim: as said in another post about cab sim, the original cab or 4x12 one got most often too much bass. Would be a nice addition to be able to add a second mic source.

Conclusion on the GP10/GK system:
- never give up, always try, tweak
- start with a good perfectly tuned and setup guitar. My Yamaha produce a dull sound, lack of sustain. My KX1 put the thing at another level
Title: Re: GP10 - getting a good metal palm muting sound
Post by: Redvers on February 05, 2018, 02:31:02 AM
I just did a gig with the GP-10 for the first time in a year or so. So much fun. And being able to drop D instantly and will keep the string tension is great. I agree making changes in the right place makes all the difference. 4x10 is a good cab, and you can tweak the eq with the mic Sims. As for pickup Sims just trust your ears because going on model names alone can sometimes disappoint.
Title: Re: GP10 - getting a good metal palm muting sound
Post by: cags12 on February 05, 2018, 02:50:59 AM
Perhaps you could share your patches to try out. I also play mostly metal and would be using all the Hex systems to play in multiple tunings.
Title: Re: GP10 - getting a good metal palm muting sound
Post by: Alex on February 05, 2018, 11:37:51 AM
Here's some preset examples. May not sound as you like but try to play with the EQ on and off to see the difference I explained in my post.

- Edit: upload new collection, previous one contained garbage patch, hope this one will work
Title: Re: GP10 - getting a good metal palm muting sound
Post by: lefty Freak on March 02, 2018, 05:54:50 AM
Quote from: Alex on February 05, 2018, 02:12:39 AM
I mostly play metal in various tuning (hence the need of GP10 for alt tuning) and after a year I finally found how to get a decent palm muting sound.
The revelation came after I decided to remove the GK from my Yamaha floyd rose guitar (on which I had to remove the humbucker due to lack of space) on my Cort KX1 equipped with EMG81.

I then started to compare in E tuning the difference in sound with the EMG81 and the Bright Humbucker simulation and the difference was huge: the simulation got way too much bass in it while the EMG81 produce a cleaner sound but yet with enough power in the bass to not have a thick palm muting sound.

Therefore I started to tweak my patch using the following effect loop: pickup sim -> eq -> main -> fx (clean boost) -> amp
while previously I was doing : pickup sim -> main -> fx (t-scream) -> amp -> eq

Now I use the eq to tweak the sound of the pickup simulation (mostly LP) and I apply the following EQ settings:
bass: 0 to +6db (to add body to the palm muting sound)
medium eq: -20db to -12db freq at 80hz q at 0.5 (to add clarity to the palm muting sound)
high eq: ever a slight cut at -2db at 1.6khz q at 0.5 or a boot of +2db at 1.6khz or 3.15khz (to get a darker sound or a crisp sound)

The FX is just a clean boost to raise the volume and add a bit of distortion if needed.
For the amp I'm now mostly using 4x10 cab sim with DYN57.

To my biggest surprised everything came to life, the palm muting are sharp and crispy and amps like 5150, SLDN and JCM900 are now usable. I spent many time in tweaking the post EQ, learned a lot but never achieved the result I wanted. Now it sounds way better and fit better in the mix when I play along songs. I'll try to post soundclip in the upcoming weeks.

I've seen Elantric will talk with the product manager in the future. While I'm now pleased with my system I still think there's room for improvement:
- pickup sim: I don't know if it's my guitar or whatever but when I compare my EMG81 with the Bright humbucker there's too many differences (way too much bass and lack of clarity here). I don't expect the sim to match exactly but then we should allow the user to have another dedicated EQ and not sacrifice one in post EQ. While I'm pleased now I would not mind having another FX slot (compression) in front of the amp and another EQ after the amp or an Exciter (may be better to use a BBE analog one ?)
- GK/ Noise gate: the use of very low alt tuning adds a lot of noise not removed by the NS. I wonder if having the NS before the alt tuning would be better ? Currently I'm using the EQ to remove 1.6khz and High when I'm using low tuning like Drop C
- cab sim: as said in another post about cab sim, the original cab or 4x12 one got most often too much bass. Would be a nice addition to be able to add a second mic source.

Conclusion on the GP10/GK system:
- never give up, always try, tweak
- start with a good perfectly tuned and setup guitar. My Yamaha produce a dull sound, lack of sustain. My KX1 put the thing at another level

Definitely trying this out. I dont play a ton of metal but I had given up on chugging with the GK3. Felt like I tried everything. I downloaded your patch too.
Title: Re: GP10 - getting a good metal palm muting sound
Post by: lefty Freak on March 07, 2018, 03:44:27 AM
It definitely helped but it's still not quite there and I dont think it will ever be able to get that heavy "chug" sound but like I said I don't do a lot of metal so it's close enough for sure. Thanks for the settings and patch!   :)
Title: Re: GP10 - getting a good metal palm muting sound
Post by: plexified on July 23, 2018, 01:32:12 AM
If your looking for more, I would take your basic set up as you described, drop your level of gain and start to layer in a few effects. First Delay.

Here you want to look at from 1 to 120 milliseconds mixed 100 and full regen to get a feel for how each  millisecond increase effects your tightness, size of the bottom and towards the end prescence.

Now that you have a feel for that, turn it off, now take a stereo chorus and turn the mix up, the speed to none or slight with the regen as well. Get a feel for how it effects the same. Now just select a nice crispy moderate chorus and turn it off.

Now that you have a feel for that, select your reverb. Go for room size and what feels right, because now we are going to add in the two from above.

Pick the delay in milliseconds you found had the right body , back the mix down to say 25 % with moderate regeneration as it acts as a prescence. Now you activate your chorus and do the same, moderate is what we want, we don't want to 'Hear' these effects at all when combined or pick them out as being used.

You should have a fatter, crisper and better balance. It should have more cut through on solos and be warm on the bottom if you want or be alive when you dig in. If you need more gain, add a bit in, but try compression here instead as a first application.

You will have the chug dialed in and if you want more texture or more hair then go for the gain. Less gain is your friend as long as you have sustain. Have fun!  BTW the higher settings on the delay range I specified will make that VH 'little guitars' tone sneak in. Have FUN!
Title: Re: GP10 - getting a good metal palm muting sound
Post by: aliensporebomb on July 23, 2018, 07:53:02 AM
Interesting thread - some great programming tips. 

I honed some things when working on VG-99 patches.  I found the GP-10 reacts much the same way: using a compressor (D-Comp or maybe try Orange or Boss) in conjunction with something like the rectifier model with noise suppressor and EQ (random settings to try start something like 2+ for low mid gain, and -18 for hi gain and level +1 or so with low mid to 500hz, low mid q to 2, hi mid could be 1.8 to 2.5 kh and hi mid q could be 4, 8 or 16 depending on what your ears like). 

This is all seasoned to taste of course and if you're using the GP-10 with a GK3 or your guitars pickups.  Then for delay/reverb that's also personal preference.

I find my EMG equipped guitars through my real actual Mesa is different, but it's interesting to try and run my EMG equipped guitars through the GP-10 through the guitar-in input to see how close I can get and compare and contrast with GK3 equipped guitars.  It's never exactly the same but it can all be usable.  I find that my Seymour Duncan equipped guitars respond different and require different settings somewhat. 







Title: Re: GP10 - getting a good metal palm muting sound
Post by: Gurbz on March 10, 2023, 07:46:02 AM
Great tips! I use the LP for modelling, into the EQ and Clean boost settings here described, then a REVV G3 and the clean channel Hook amp