Building a FTP rig

Started by mediabuyout, December 08, 2014, 01:52:32 PM

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mediabuyout

Decided to break off the shackles of my old school Luddite ways and make the jump into midi guitars and I need help, good people, building a starter rig around such decision.

After I buy and install the FTP on my guitar, what do I need next?  This would be for performing live with my band, so I need to have proper amplification (my mono guitar rig currently plugs into a single fender DRRI).

What type of computer is recommended, with what minimum specs? If possible, I would prefer to use an Ipad instead of some expensive macbook.

Do I need an audio interface? I only know this even exists (let alone what it does) from reading other threads here.

Audio drivers?

Foot controllers?

Help! 

Elantric


mediabuyout

Quote from: Elantric on December 08, 2014, 02:06:42 PM
Fishman Triple Play Top Things to Know
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8427.0

I saw that - thanks.  What i didn't find in there is someway to make the FTP work with my current setup. 

I have a guitar running through a bunch of pedals to an amp.  I dont want to lose that setup, just augment with access to VST sounds.

If I plug the audio jack of my guitar to an audio interface, can I split the signal from there to run through the pedals to the amp and a second signal path to the computer, which houses all the soft synths?

From there, how do I then amplify the computer?  Run the headphone jack of the computer to what, specifically?  mixer? preamp? speakers? 

I didn't see anywhere in that guide that discusses this, but happy to read if you can point me to it. 

Elantric

#3
Read

http://tripletalk.fishman.com/


QuoteI have a guitar running through a bunch of pedals to an amp.  I dont want to lose that setup, just augment with access to VST sounds.


The Fishman Software Bundle with FTP demands use of the fastest computer you can afford - Intel i5 or i7 and 8GB RAM and a good Audio interface

90% of the time, I just connect the FTP Receiver to an Ipad+CCK  and run IK sampletank for my FTP Synth needs at live gigs 

mediabuyout

I appreciate you replying and trying to help, but I'm really hoping you can get a little more specific.

When you do the Ipad+CCW with a softsynth app loaded on the Ipad - how do you amplify that, like literally can you please type out your entire signal chain?

Would a cheapish USB audio interface (something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Focusrite-Scarlett-2i4-USB-Interface-/181590502775?pt=US_Computer_Recording_Interfaces&hash=item2a47a32d77) work with the Ipad+CCW for improved tone/lower latency? 

Finally, how do i preserve my analog rig/at what point in the signal chain are the paths split off from analog/digital.

Thanks again.

Elantric

#5
QuoteWhen you do the Ipad+CCW with a softsynth app loaded on the Ipad - how do you amplify that, like literally can you please type out your entire signal chain?

I use a 8 ft 3.5mm TRS cable from Ipad Headphone Out into my Roland Cube 80XL or into  Rolls DB24 passive DI box into the PA.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10138.msg94596#msg94596
I Feed the iPad Headphone out to a passive DI Box with 3.5mm TRS Stereo input and Balanced XLR Outputs -

like the Rolls DB24 $70
http://www.amazon.com/ROLLS-DB24-Stereo-Direct-Interface/dp/B001032GK8/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1417459136&sr=1-1&keywords=Rolls+DB24
http://www.rolls.com/product.php?pid=DB24





If you desire a bit higher quality and have the funds this works a bit better

Radial ProAV2 $179
http://www.amazon.com/Radial-ProAV2-XLR-RCA-Cables/dp/B00BH4XO1A/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1417459088&sr=1-1&keywords=Radial+ProAV2

http://www.radialeng.com/proav.php

mediabuyout

#6
Ok, now we're getting somewhere - thanks.

Is your audio signal just going to stompboxes/amp instead of an audio interface?

Would the interface I linked above work with an Ipad to improve latency?

Elantric

#7
QuoteWould a cheapish USB audio interface (something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Focusrite-Scarlett-2i4-USB-Interface-/181590502775?pt=US_Computer_Recording_Interfaces&hash=item2a47a32d77) work with the Ipad+CCW for improved tone/lower latency? 

I love my Scarlett 2i4

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10323.0


QuoteFinally, how do i preserve my analog rig/at what point in the signal chain are the paths split off from analog/digital.

Leave your existing analog guitar rig in place and untouched

the FTP is only for MIDI Out  - and drives synths

The FTP Control App and Software Bundle is framed from the perspective of a well heeled Berklee music major with a $2,500 MacBook Pro and wants to use Software Amp Sims and VSTi / AU Soft Synths and Samplers  - with just a Macbook Pro and a good fast low latency interface - the scarlett 2i4 works well (Ebay $150)  - the best is a RME UHX ( $1500) 

A few here use the  FTP Receiver into a Kenton USB Host to MIDI conversion box ( $150 ) or iConnectMIDI 4+ ($199) and drive old school hardware synths via 5pin MIDI 

shawnb

#8
This is such a wide-open question, it's hard to tell where to start...   It really is all up to you...

If you don't want to change your normal guitar processing, there is no reason to do so.

You do, however, need to decide how deep you want to go with the FTP. 

Some are quite happy with just an iPad:   
  -  https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12532.0
  -  https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8418.0
  -  https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10323.msg74808#msg74808

If you want greater power/choice of VSTs than the iPad provides, then you need to supplement your system with:
  -  A laptop (to run your VST host)
  -  An audio device (to convey the signal from your laptop to your FRFR amp) 
  -  Some FRFR amplification (either your PA or a dedicated amp)

FRFR amps are discussed in many threads here:
  -  https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4941.0
  -  https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9484.0
  -  https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=37.0

Audio devices are covered here:
  -  https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8291.0

Some folks prefer hardware synths:
  -  https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11594.0

If you want to get really deep, you may also consider:
  -  A footcontroller (depending on how much control you need)
  -  An alternate VST host, if you want greater control than the FTP host provides (search for Cantabile, Forte, Hollyhock here at the forum)

Hopefully this will get you started!

Shawn
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Elantric

#9
QuoteIs your audio signal just going to stompboxes/amp instead of an audio interface?

Despite the rumors and bad info out there- the FTP is just a Guitar to MIDI converter - no Audio  - just need to determine what to drive with the FTP's MIDI Note on / off message streams

Choice #1 ) IOS Synth on an Ipad

Choice #2 ) Hardware Synth and a USB Host to MIDI converter box ( no computer)

Choice #3 ) Buy into the "whole enchilada" to use that "free" software bundle  - when I want to fire that up i use a 2012 Macbook Pro Retina with 8GB RAM, 768GB SSD ,OSX 10.8.5, and Scarlett 2i4 and run NI Guitar Rig or IK Amplitube ( both included in the FTP "Free bundle) for the guitar amp sims  - all audio leaves the Scarlett 2i4 balanced TRS outputs into a Powered PA Speakers - I like a pair of  Alesis 112A



Asking

"What do I connect my FTP too?

is very similar to asking

"What do I  connect a USB MIDI Keyboard into?"


mediabuyout

#10
For choice #2 - If I own a hardware synth like a Juno 106 that plugs into a keyboard amp, then all I need to do is buy a usb host to MIDI converter box and the Juno will recognize (and be controlled by) the FTP?? That sounds like a sweet option.  Any recommendations for a good usb host to MIDI converter box?

I guess what I'm also asking is how to do a quasi- wet/dry rig where "wet" = one of choice 1,2 or 3 and "dry" = my current guitar>pedalboard>amp setup, and I can run either dry, wet or both simultaneously. I think this would only be an issue for Choice 3 where the audio of my guitar is plugged into the audio interface, since choice 1 and 2 don't require an audio interface.

Elantric

QuoteFor choice #2 - If I own a hardware synth like a Juno 106 that plugs into a keyboard amp, then all I need to do is buy a usb host to MIDI converter box and the Juno will recognize (and be controlled by) the FTP?? That sounds like a sweet option.  Any recommendations for a good usb host to MIDI converter box?

Smart money is spent  on iConnectMIDI 4+

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9050.0

Gets the USB Host to 5 pin MIDi job done - and has many more uses for modern music systems

- See more at: http://www.musicinclusive.com/blog/#sthash.J3fyBCuo.dpuf[/i]



Use a Volume pedal to control the Juno

mediabuyout

Wow a ton of good stuff here to digest, thanks Elantric and Shawnb.

Elantric - I see from this informative post that you are using the Scarlett 2i4 with your ipad setup (choice 1)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10323.msg74429#msg74429 . If I want to do this and also run my current guitar>analog pedals>tube amp setup, do i just stick an a/b bypass box  (something like this http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BigShotABY) in front of the Scarlett and split the signal from there, with the Scarlett outputs running to powered PA speakers?


Elantric

#14
QuoteIf I want to do this and also run my current guitar>analog pedals>tube amp setup, do i just stick an a/b bypass box

I use a Volume pedal on my Guitar FX board for Guitar - as It often just feeds a normal guitar amp on stage


Then the hardware Synth or iPad feeds its own  Stereo Vol Pedal then into a passive DI box (Rolls DB24) to PA




mediabuyout

#15
So if your guitar is plugged into the Scarlett in conjunction with the iPad, how do you also get a guitar signal into the volume pedal on your guitar FX board, given that the Scarlett outputs feed into Rolls>PA?

Elantric

The FTP PU feeds it's Controller and transmits an RF signal to the USB receiver.

There is no audio content .

My normal live guitar rig typically is 1/4" cable from guitar to floor stomp FX then to volume pedal then to a Line 6 echo park then into Cube 80 XL amp. ( no computer ,no Scarlett , no 13 pin)

Then FTP receiver goes to MacBook running a soft synth and audio output is from Scarlet TRS balanced out your DI box to PA.

An attached MIDI FOOT CONTROL  board with Expression pedal mapped to MIDI CC#7 controls synth volume.

mediabuyout

Oh I see - for some reason I thought the Scarlett came before the ipad/macbook and had your guitar's audio plugged into it like on page 7 of this http://www.fishman.com/software/tripleplay/download/tripleplay_user_guide.pdf - but the fishman diagram doesn't contemplate guitarists having a separate audio rig like the one you have.  Thanks.

Elantric


mediabuyout

#19
Big thank you again Elantic - I went from absolutely clueless yesterday to actually being able to somewhat follow along in reading through these other threads linked in the above posts.  So just to confirm what gear is needed depending on the route I take, assuming that in all 3 options that I run my guitar's audio signal through stompboxes to amp (no need for processing through a computer) 

Choice (1) Ipad rig
1. guitar with FTP
2. ipad +CCW
3. passive DI + PA or dedicated amp (e.g., Roland Cube)
4. powered USB hub
5. USB battery pack
6. USB cord

Choice (2) hardware synth rig
1. guitar with FTP
2. USB to Midi
3. 5 pin midi cable
4. hardware synth
5. volume pedal + cord to synth
6. TRS cable
7. passive DI + PA or dedicated amp (e.g., Roland Cube)

Choice (3) laptop rig
1. guitar with FTP
2. Audio Interface (to lower latency)
3. USB cord
4. TRS cable
5. passive DI + PA or dedicated amp (e.g., Roland Cube)

Is this correct?? Do I not need an audio interface with the ipad rig, assuming I'm not putting any audio through the ipad?

Further, if I want to add a footcontroller like the Behringer FCB1010, then I would need to pair that with a USB to MIDI box correct? If I did that, would I then also need a powered USB hub for the laptop, or would that only be for the ipad rig?

Elantric

#20
All looks Correct - but these other choices do exist as well:

Choice 1 (Minimal)
1. Guitar with FTP
2. iPad +CCK ( Apple USB Camera Adapter / Camera Connection Kit)  and FTP USB Receiver plugs straight into the CCK ( No need for a Powered USB Hub) 
3  Headphone jack connected 3.5mm TRS cable into Amp

Pic is here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8427.msg60215#msg60215



Since the Ipad is on batteries and self powered the CCK and FTP Reciever  - no need for external power - thus no path for Ground Loop Noise 


Choice 3 (Minimal) laptop rig if you only play synths
1. Guitar with FTP
2. Macbook Air or Macbook Pro
3.  Headphone jack connected 3.5mm TRS cable into Amp

The Macbook Air or Macbook Pro already has a decent 24 bit Internal DAC and very low latency
Since the Macbook  is designed for low noise for Audio when run on AC Power or Internal Battery - thus no path for Ground Loop Noise 

mediabuyout

Oh, okay so the advantage of the audio interface is when I want to process audio through the computer.  If I'm only controlling soft synths, not much advantage in latency over the macbook pro?

How about if I want to include a midi footcontroller? what equipment do I need to pair it with so that the comp will understand the instructions?

Elantric

Only absolutely need the Audio Interface if you expect to plug your guitar into your "Virtual Guitar Amp  Modeling" app ( Amplitube, N.I. GuitarRig, Bias Desktop,etc))  with ultra low latency and clean 24 bit A/D

mediabuyout

Got it.  Thanks.  How do you keep your ipad from running out of batteries during long gigs?

Elantric

#24
QuoteHow about if I want to include a midi footcontroller? what equipment do I need to pair it with so that the comp will understand the instructions?

Most Portable - the IK BLueBoard  - wireless 4 buttons and support for dual expression pedals
http://www.amazon.com/IK-Multimedia-Blueboard-wireless-controller/dp/B00BIPL9JW


Livid Guitar Wing
http://lividinstruments.com/products/guitar-wing/





If you add a Powered USB HUB, you can use your choice of MIDI Over USB Footcontrollers - (

* KMI SoftStep II ( Avoid the 1st generation SoftStep! with its radiated EMI EL Backlight - its a huge source of induced noise for guitars with single coils  ! ) 
http://www.keithmcmillen.com/softstep/tour