Katana Head SysEx on Midi In Port

Started by LyndsW, December 08, 2017, 02:08:34 PM

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LyndsW

Hello all.

Has anyone been able to get the Katana Head to respond to system exclusive messages on the midi port? Channel changes, as specified in the manual, are working for me but not the advanced changes BTS makes over USB.

I think I remember seeing comments about changes in version 2 of the firmware causing issues with some software. Is this related?

Beyond basic channel changes, are there any known foot pedals (or other devices) that can control the Katana over 5 pin din midi?

Elantric

#1
Quote from: LyndsW on December 08, 2017, 02:08:34 PM
Hello all.

Has anyone been able to get the Katana Head to respond to system exclusive messages on the midi port? Channel changes, as specified in the manual, are working for me but not the advanced changes BTS makes over USB.

I think I remember seeing comments about changes in version 2 of the firmware causing issues with some software. Is this related?


Yes - read here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=240.0

https://github.com/snhirsch/katana-midi-bridge


vtgearhead

I thought it had been long verified that heads accept sysex on 5-pin port?  Can't think why it would work on USB but not serial. 

LyndsW

Thanks for the reply Elantric.

Your links appear to be related to control over usb. I'm specifically interested in the 5 pin port on the back of the Head model. USB has been working as expected, as it does with the raspberry or primova.

LyndsW

Quote from: snhirsch on December 08, 2017, 03:00:50 PM
I thought it had been long verified that heads accept sysex on 5-pin port?  Can't think why it would work on USB but not serial.

I may well be missing something simple but important with this. Is there some kind of password type handshake needed? I didn't even think at first to verify this functionality before purchasing my Katana.

Elantric

#5
Quote from: snhirsch on December 08, 2017, 03:00:50 PM
I thought it had been long verified that heads accept sysex on 5-pin port?  Can't think why it would work on USB but not serial.

Confirmed -Any MIDI SYsex message which the Katana Head's 5 pin MIDI Input responds, the same MIDI Sysex message can be sent to the  Katana 50, Katana 100 combos over USB


The hurdle remains - the Katana is NOT MIDI Class Compliant -
Bulk of the devices marketed as "USB Host to MIDI "adapters  will NOT work with Katana , including the following:

Quote* iConnnectMIDI (original Black version - discontinued )

* iConnnectMIDI4+  (not the iConnnectMIDI2+ ! ! )
http://www.iconnectivity.com/products/midi


* iConnnectAUDIO4+  / * iConnnectAUDIO2+
http://www.iconnectivity.com/products/audio

* Kenton USB Host to MIDI Converter
http://www.kentonuk.com/products/items/utilities/usb-host.shtml

* Primova MIDX-10(Works with Roland  / Boss products - no USB Driver needed)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15758.0

* Disaster Area GHOST Converter USB MIDI Host Interface
http://www.disasterareaamps.com/shop/ghost-converter

* CerebelUSB – USB-MIDI to Serial Converter
https://supr.com/mode-machines/products/cerebelusb-usb/


More details here:

USB Host to 5pin MIDI Converters
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15763.0

Short list of USB Host to 5pin MIDI Converters that WORK with Roland / Boss gear:

* Raspberry PI $35 + Generic USB to MIDI cable ($15)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11998.0

* Primova MIDX-10
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15758.0


* Primova MIDX-20
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17561.0

*Android 6.01 ( or newer) tablets and smartphones +USB OTG adapter+ + Generic USB to MIDI cable

Elantric

#6
Katana MIDI docs are here
https://github.com/katana-dev/docs

However most info is only relevant for Katana Firmware 1.02 - not Katana FW 2.02

vtgearhead

Quote from: LyndsW on December 08, 2017, 03:05:16 PM
I may well be missing something simple but important with this. Is there some kind of password type handshake needed? I didn't even think at first to verify this functionality before purchasing my Katana.

No password required.  But you will need to put the device into 'edit' mode for certain operations.  For example, it only echoes out panel control changes in edit mode. 

To best understand the sysex API, start with the Roland GT-100/001 specification (Katana firmware is derivative of those models), then look at some of the third-party efforts like my feeble scribbling:

https://github.com/snhirsch/katana-midi-bridge/blob/master/doc/katana_sysex.txt

and the links Elantric has already posted.

alancarl

Quote from: LyndsW on December 08, 2017, 02:08:34 PM
Hello all.

Has anyone been able to get the Katana Head to respond to system exclusive messages on the midi port? Channel changes, as specified in the manual, are working for me but not the advanced changes BTS makes over USB.

I have 3 Katana 100 watt Heads now with FW 2.02 and I have never been successful with any FW version in getting the MIDI in port to pass SYSEX messages ..now the USB port with either my laptop or Primova MIDX-20 I am having loads of fun with MIDIDesigner on my iPads sending SYSEX commands to both the Katana and my MBP with BTS refelcting those changes!
I just wanted to add my experience with no SYSEX over the MIDI DIN port on the Katana Head.
Thanks,
AL

admin

Quote from: alancarl on March 14, 2018, 03:09:27 PM
I have 3 Katana 100 watt Heads now with FW 2.02 and I have never been successful with any FW version in getting the MIDI in port to pass SYSEX messages ..now the USB port with either my laptop or Primova MIDX-20 I am having loads of fun with MIDIDesigner on my iPads sending SYSEX commands to both the Katana and my MBP with BTS refelcting those changes!
I just wanted to add my experience with no SYSEX over the MIDI DIN port on the Katana Head.
Thanks,
AL

Any MIDI Designer Katana Templates you could share?

alancarl

Quote from: admsustainiac on March 14, 2018, 07:58:59 PM
Any MIDI Designer Katana Templates you could share?
Sure
I want to do a video or two as well... Editing over wifi, custom control layouts. I have found ability to quickly bypass any fx block like the FX Floorboard provides has taught me a lot about the structure of the Katana!

I have a question for anybody to check myself about a Katana DSP gain structuring concept--
Has anybody determined the level parameter value that would deliver Unity gain for the Limiter FX block? (of course this would be with the limiter engaged where it is set to not be limiting for this test)
Al

vtgearhead

Quote from: alancarl on March 14, 2018, 03:09:27 PM
I have 3 Katana 100 watt Heads now with FW 2.02 and I have never been successful with any FW version in getting the MIDI in port to pass SYSEX messages ..now the USB port with either my laptop or Primova MIDX-20 I am having loads of fun with MIDIDesigner on my iPads sending SYSEX commands to both the Katana and my MBP with BTS refelcting those changes!
I just wanted to add my experience with no SYSEX over the MIDI DIN port on the Katana Head.
Thanks,
AL

Are you using a MIDI-to-USB converter in your setup?  Some of those play badly with sysex.  That said, I don't have a Katana with built-in MIDI to test with.

gumtown

Most Boss/Roland DSP controls seem to be at unity/neutral/50/50 mix at noon setting, half way, effect levels at 100% or Direct levels at 100%.

I have not played with the Limiter much, a VU meter comparing the "input vs output" would be the best way to check.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

alancarl

Quote from: vtgearhead on March 15, 2018, 04:41:24 AM
Are you using a MIDI-to-USB converter in your setup?  Some of those play badly with sysex.  That said, I don't have a Katana with built-in MIDI to test with.
Thanks Vt.., I'm sure that the MKii Iconnectmidi Mio USB midi io handles Sysex properly as it works well feeding my Primova MIDX-20.
I am confident that the MIDI port In on the Katana head is not for SYSEX.
Al

joelt

I've got an Arduino based midi controller working over the Midi In port for the standard midi commands shown in the manual.
Struggling to get the Sysex commands to work but it's hard to tell if the message is incorrect of if the Katana just doesn't response to it over Midi In.
Going to do some more testing and I'll let you know if I make progress

alancarl

Hey Joeit,
    If you have a computer with the Roland USB drivers installed and working and a way to generate Sysex and send it down the USB midi pipe you could test your Sysex commands. The USB port definitely passes Sysex commands. I am sure that the midi in port does not pass Sysex on my 3 Katana amp heads:-)
LMK
Thanks
Al

alancarl

Hey Joeit,
    If you have a computer with the Roland USB drivers installed and working and a way to generate Sysex and send it down the USB midi pipe you could test your Sysex commands. The USB port definitely passes Sysex commands. I am sure that the midi in port does not pass Sysex on my 3 Katana amp heads:-)
LMK
Thanks
Al

joelt

Hmmm using SysEx Librarian I can send a SysEx message over USB and it seems to work but when sending the message over a USB to Midi adapter to the Midi In on the Katana it doesn't seem to work. Unless there is something missing and someone has managed another way it doesn't really look possible to me.
Looks like I'll have to stick with the standard Midi functionality for now and if I want to extend it then get a Usb Host for the Arduino or convert to a Pi as I think they can act as a USB host

admin

#18
Quotewhen sending the message over a USB to Midi adapter to the Midi In on the Katana it doesn't seem to work


I suspect this is due to many "USB to MIDI " adapter cables have insufficient FIFO buffer memory on board which yields SYSEX errors / failure

What MIDI interface are you using?

Also same applies to many Arduino MIDI adapters. Need a storage Oscilloscope to review the MIDI data packets
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/17562/how-to-read-serial-data-from-oscilloscope


MIDI Interface SYSEX Data Test
http://www.frank-buss.de/midi/

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=23193.new#new





RME Babyface MIDI SYSEX = Good




China USB MIDI Cable = Bad
Conclusion
If you need an opto-isolator to avoid ground loops, or if you want to send SysEx messages, don't buy the cheapest available adapters.

http://www.frank-buss.de/midi/

joelt

Yup I am using a cheap USB to Midi converter so that could be part of the problem.
I am also experiencing some missing bytes when testing my Arduino controller plugged into the USB to midi cable, it's hard to tell if that's because of how the Arduino handles hex codes or because of the cheap adapter.
My main concern is spending too much time trying to get this to work over the Midi In port if it's simply not possible, i've only seen it successful over USB but I might have missed something.

This is why I'm a software programmer, not usually hardware  ;D

admin


CodeSmart

But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

alancarl

Quote from: admsustainiac on March 31, 2018, 04:26:19 AM

I suspect this is due to many "USB to MIDI " adapter cables have insufficient FIFO buffer memory on board which yields SYSEX errors / failure

What MIDI interface are you using?

Pretty impressive tech!
I tested the SYSEX to the KATANA MIDI in port with 2 known working USB MIDI I/O's -The IconnectMIDI Mio and the 4+ and neither satisfy the KATANA head to receive SYSEX over the MIDI in DIN port.

I maintain that currently it is not possible to control the KATANA head by sending SYSEX commands to it's MIDI DIN port.
The MIDX-20 or a computer handles this nicely over the KATANA USB port.
If anyone has actually been successful controlling the KATANA head with SYSEX over the MIDI DIN port please tell us how!

FWIW I wanted to do this more than a year ago and was not successful which then led me to cop the first of 2-MIDX-20's for my tech arsenal:-)

Thanks,
AL

vtgearhead

I've never had access to a Katana model with built-in 5-pin MIDI, so I cannot dig into the situation.  It strikes me as odd that the amps can respond to sysex on USB and the GAFC jack, but not on the DIN connector.

admin

#24
Quote from: vtgearhead on April 02, 2018, 09:05:01 AM
I've never had access to a Katana model with built-in 5-pin MIDI, so I cannot dig into the situation.  It strikes me as odd that the amps can respond to sysex on USB and the GAFC jack, but not on the DIN connector.

Agreed - also the electrical circuit of the Katana 5 pin DIN MIDI Input matches the typical 5 pin MIDI Input on other Roland / Boss gear ( GT-100)

I see no reason why they would block MIDI SYSEX

Suggest retry with a Roland UM-ONE MK II