Katana editing with IOS

Started by Idgolfguy, July 02, 2017, 07:23:01 PM

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Idgolfguy

Hello All
Found some time yesterday to finally get to work on an IOS editor for the Katana. It's very early in development and requires some extra hardware and software at this stage.

The hardware/software is:

  • IPad with Midi Designer Pro. Will also try TB Midi Stuff. This software is used to send Midi
  • Primova's MIDX-20 provides the interface to connect the iPad to the Katana. It also provides the CC# translation to the Katana internal systems.
  • Yamaha MD-BT01 to provide wireless connectivity.


Video is self explanatory:





CodeSmart

But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Idgolfguy

Thanks, mate. Your work was the catalyst.
Hopefully get to spend an hour or so on learning and development each day.

GuitarBuilder

"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

alancarl

Quote from: Idgolfguy on July 02, 2017, 07:23:01 PM
Hi,
    I have the first 2 hardware/software items in the list below... I have my iPad and a MIDI Designer controller layout I made to control the 10 band Graphic EQ...Pretty cool to have instant access to the EQ sliders w/o a CPU!

What I am hoping for is a way to get a previously stored group of parameter values to 'come back' to the iPad From the Katana stored presets...

Over the years i have found it difficult if not impossible to get the parameter values or indicator light states back into whatever controller is being used.

I have to say though that the MIDX-20 IS a terrific connectivity tool in an area where Nothing else exists!!

Any ideas anyone?
Thanks,
Al

The hardware/software is:

  • IPad with Midi Designer Pro. Will also try TB Midi Stuff. This software is used to send Midi
  • Primova's MIDX-20 provides the interface to connect the iPad to the Katana. It also provides the CC# translation to the Katana internal systems.
  • Yamaha MD-BT01 to provide wireless connectivity.



Idgolfguy

As an update...
Have got all the amp, boost and mod models mapped.

Interesting that I can choose/run boost and mod at the same time.
Have not worked out the Sys Ex to load nor save a patch into Midi Designer yet.

A bit of reading on Sys Exc messages to be done.

CodeSmart

Quote from: Idgolfguy on July 06, 2017, 06:49:48 AM
Have not worked out the Sys Ex to load nor save a patch into Midi Designer yet.
A bit of reading on Sys Exc messages to be done.

Oooops, that might not be possible. The Bridge code currently hijacks the Katana and don't allow direct access to it of various reasons. For instance if the Bridge asks the Katana for something the returned answer will not be seen from outside the Bridge. I'm not saying it's impossible to open up for this possibility, but current firmware can't.

However if you wish to try to develop a patch downloader/uploader handler and hope I fix this problem later, you can "Disable Bridges" using the PC program (need to disconnect/re-connect USB also), to see how it would work with pass-through communication.

If trying this, I would avoid large memory region requests (several kilobytes) as the MIDX buffers have limitations in size.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

alancarl

Quote from: CodeSmart on July 06, 2017, 09:48:08 AM
Oooops, that might not be possible. The Bridge code currently hijacks the Katana and don't allow direct access to it of various reasons. For instance if the Bridge asks the Katana for something the returned answer will not be seen from outside the Bridge. I'm not saying it's impossible to open up for this possibility, but current firmware can't.

Hey Robert and Vic,
      Storing and retrieving patches would be great.
What about being able to change patches on the Katana itself and have those parameters be sent back into the iPad's MIDI Designer controller template to sync or update the controls on the iPad to match the parameters from any of the 4 stored patches in the Katana?

Its the two-way updating of parameters and controls that is always the tricky part... but I find it more useful to have complete control of the parameters of a few patches rather than a whole bunch of presets to load.

Any ideas gentlemen?
Thanks,'
AL

Idgolfguy

I was reading through the forums on Midi Designer Pro (MDP), it also has limitations on what/volume of data it could read back.

I did test SysEx from MDP to change Channels via Midx-20, and it did work.

I'll try disabling the bridge this weekend.

CodeSmart

Quote from: Idgolfguy on July 06, 2017, 02:56:34 PM

I did test SysEx from MDP to change Channels via Midx-20, and it did work.


That's good. Maybe I was wrong. If so, good for you.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

alancarl

Quote from: Idgolfguy on July 06, 2017, 02:56:34 PM
I was reading through the forums on Midi Designer Pro (MDP), it also has limitations on what/volume of data it could read back.

Is it possible for the MIDX-20 to read Sysex from the Katana and convert it back to cc's? That would significantly reduce the data that MDP would have process.
It would be so useful to be able to edit and control the Katana with an iPad @ the gig!!
Thanks gentlemen:-)
Al

vtgearhead

Quote from: alancarl on July 06, 2017, 10:08:35 PM
Is it possible for the MIDX-20 to read Sysex from the Katana and convert it back to cc's? That would significantly reduce the data that MDP would have process.
It would be so useful to be able to edit and control the Katana with an iPad @ the gig!!

I think Robert is down to 125 bytes of code space, but with his programming talents that's enough to do a reverse translation with room left over to guide a spacecraft :-).


alancarl

Quote from: snhirsch on July 07, 2017, 05:48:39 AM
I think Robert is down to 125 bytes of code space, but with his programming talents that's enough to do a reverse translation with room left over to guide a spacecraft :-).

Lol!
Well "beam me up Scotty!"
If having a bit more code space gets us to the edge of this galaxy maybe the firmware could be separated by Katana(Roland) and Mustang?
I know this must create more maintenance for Robert but parameter updates are crucial so I have my fingers crossed:-)

Thanks to everybody that has contributed to the 'development' of the Katana!
Peace
Al

CodeSmart

Quote from: alancarl on July 06, 2017, 10:08:35 PM
Is it possible for the MIDX-20 to read Sysex from the Katana and convert it back to cc's? That would significantly reduce the data that MDP would have process.
It would be so useful to be able to edit and control the Katana with an iPad @ the gig!!
Thanks gentlemen:-)
Al

Hm...what do you want to read back?
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

alancarl

Quote from: CodeSmart on July 07, 2017, 10:36:15 AM
Hm...what do you want to read back?
A Katana preset's stored parameter values for the graphic EQ and limiter to start with...
In my analog rig I tend to tweak these devices a little most every gig.
LMK and thanks everybody!!
Al

admin

QuoteA Katana preset's stored parameter values for the graphic EQ and limiter to start with...

FWIW - Gumtown has supplied an important MIDi debug tool in his Floorboard Editor


click "Debug Mode" and at the bottom of the main Editor screen you will the real time MIDI sysex messages for each Katana FX parameter function in a text display monitor



Idgolfguy

Using Midi Designer Pro and Robert's MIDX-20, I tested Ch1 and Panel selection using SysEx and PC for Ch2,3 and 4.

There is a Midi Receive selection in MDP, just have to work out how to get the Kat to send or respond to a request.

The other more difficult task would for MDP to parse the values back into the correct controls.

alancarl

QuoteThe other more difficult task would for MDP to parse the values back into the correct controls.

Since the MIDX-20 already is parsing and converting CC's from MIDI Designer Pro to Katana Sysex I'm suggesting that the MIDX-20 could request Sysex for the Katana's parameters and handle parsing and conversion back to the correct cc's which would then easily update the MIDI Designer Pro controls.

thanks
Al

CodeSmart

Quote from: alancarl on July 08, 2017, 03:36:13 AM
Since the MIDX-20 already is parsing and converting CC's from MIDI Designer Pro to Katana Sysex I'm suggesting that the MIDX-20 could request Sysex for the Katana's parameters and handle parsing and conversion back to the correct cc's which would then easily update the MIDI Designer Pro controls.

thanks
Al

There's no code memory left to fit this request, and also I don't have the time to do it. Sorry.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

gumtown

Each Katana patch has around 750 parameters, each parameter can have ranges from 2 to 2000,
off the top of my recollection, there are nearly 100 different range scales in the Katana parameter set.
Well beyond the capabilities of a microcontroller.
The memory space of the IOS device will need to handle the data acquisition from the sysx to cc# conversion if you want to go that route.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Idgolfguy

I'm new to all of this, it's going to be fun learning how to do all of this. Have been reading on how to program mobile devices.

alancarl

Quote from: gumtown on July 08, 2017, 05:44:19 AM
Each Katana patch has around 750 parameters, each parameter can have ranges from 2 to 2000,
off the top of my recollection, there are nearly 100 different range scales in the Katana parameter set.
Well beyond the capabilities of a microcontroller.

This Sounds big!
For my uses I would only be looking to tweak an EQ and a limiter as these are very important processing blocks in my setup.. but I see why it's not practical for a hardware box and its code in firmware to handle this. EQ & Limiting might not be the parameters that everyone might want to be able to tweak.
Thanks for the explanation.
Al

alancarl

Quote from: CodeSmart on July 08, 2017, 03:49:48 AM
There's no code memory left to fit this request, and also I don't have the time to do it. Sorry.

No problem Robert...there's always another way:-)
There would be no possibility for an iOS tweaked for Katana without the MDX-20!!
Thanks
Al

admin

#23
Quote from: alancarl on July 09, 2017, 04:28:18 AM

For my uses I would only be looking to tweak an EQ and a limiter as these are very important processing blocks in my setup.. but I see why it's not practical for a hardware box and its code in firmware to handle this. EQ & Limiting might not be the parameters that everyone might want to be able to tweak.
Thanks for the explanation.
Al

You do realize Robert's MIDX-20 with updated latest firmware supports MIDI CC# for both the EQ parameters




and Limiter parameters
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19048.msg153081#msg153081



alancarl

Quote from: admsustainiac on July 09, 2017, 07:00:42 AM
You do realize Robert's MIDX-20 with updated latest firmware supports MIDI CC# for both the EQ parameters

Yes I realized this and I made a one way editor in MIDI Designer Pro utilizing this translation.

Currently there is no way to get the Katana stored parameters to update my iOS editor.

This should clarify what I am looking for:
For example I have 4 preset's stored in the Katana all with different EQ and limiter settings...when I recall those presets I am looking for the iOS editor to get those settings as a starting point if I need to make further adjustments.
In my ideal setting I don't need to recall 100's of preset's I want hands on control of a few great sounds.
Al