Katana Dev - Access additional Amps and FX inside Katana

Started by Beanow, April 06, 2017, 12:45:35 PM

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Beanow

How To guides: https://github.com/katana-dev/docs/blob/master/how-to/use-28-amp-types.md
Sneaky Amp table: https://github.com/katana-dev/docs/blob/master/tables/amp-types.md

https://github.com/katana-dev/docs/blob/master/how-to/use-28-amp-types.md#3rd-party-software-method


Available methods:

  • Using the Sneaky Amps (Blank) liveset as a base.
  • Using KATANAFxFloorBoard for Windows / Linux.
  • Using KatanaEditor for Android.
  • Edit .tsl files in a text editor.
  • Sending SysEx MIDI messages (advanced).



Download the Sneaky Amps (Blank) liveset:
katana-dev/docs: SneakyAmpsBlank.zip

Instructions included How To use the Sneaky Amps liveset

Updates:

  • Sharing a liveset containing all Sneaky Amps and their Bright versions as blank amp settings. See the How To guide.
  • Updated the Sneaky Amp table to include information about the Bright setting.
  • Changed the number of amps to 28! Because KATANAFxFloorBoard has shown that the CUSTOM amp can be configured using additional parameters.
  • Added KatanaEditor for Android instructions to the How To guide.
  • The first 3rd party software KATANAFxFloorBoard for Windows / Linux (Wine) to set Sneaky Amps is available. See the How To guide for this.

CUSTOM amp type:
The CUSTOM amp type works and is configurable.
That brings the number of functional amps to 28!
The most intuitive way to edit the custom amp right now is with KATANAFxFloorBoard.

Original post

Inspired by Snhirsch's great reverse engineering work before me, I had a go at this too.
And I've found you can access additional 27 Pre-Amp models instead of just the 5 assigned to the Amp Type knob.

But the gist of it is you can either manually edit .tsl files and Tone Studio will upload it to your amp. Or use MIDI SysEx messages to change the amp type in real-time to any of the 27 amp types.
Once you've got it set on your amp, you can do everything you normally would, like saving/loading it in any TONE SETTING and loading it back and forth between Tone Studio.

I would love to hear from you if you tested this, especially on different firmware versions and models.
All effort is based on Katana Amp Firmware version 1.02
My hearing is also not good enough to identify each model and validate the table. Someone with a GT-100 may be able to confirm whether the models match.

gumtown

#1
OK, here is something a little crazy.
I have modified the GT-100FxFloorBoard editor to install Katana sysx headers on the data, so that all the GT-100 parameters can be sent to the Katana in a Katana format.

Here is a windows version of Katana FxFloorBoard
download link here
https://sourceforge.net/projects/fxfloorboard/files/experimental/

It won't be able to read in Katana patch data, but when the Katana USB device is selected as a midi out option, and the editor set to debug mode (by default),
Press the "connect" button in the editor and begin sending parameters to your Katana, and see which of the GT-100 type parameters work on the Katana.


Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Beanow

Quote from: gumtown on April 06, 2017, 08:11:01 PMso that all the GT-100 parameters can be sent to the Katana in a Katana format.

Are the SysEx messages in the status bar accurate? If so the model ID will need to be edited to work.
For example, I loaded a Katana patch from a .tsl file (no hickups there), then changed the pre-amp gain:

F0 41 00 00 00 60 12 <-- GT-100 write, Katana uses 33 instead of 60.
60 00 00 52 = 38 <-- I've tested this address, it should work. https://github.com/snhirsch/katana-midi-bridge/issues/6#issuecomment-292145865

On connect it gives me: "The Boss KATANA System data was not transfered!"
But I do see the Katana has responded with an identity response.
F0 7E 00 06 02 41 33 03 00 00 01 00 00 00 F7

gumtown

Thanks for trying it, and the Katana ID reply data.
I have updated to version 20170408 and made some functional changes.

Select from the Preferences > midi menu, the Katana as the midi device.

The editor will send parameter data without the need to enable the editor "Connect" button.
If the "connect" button is engaged, the editor will try to request patch data from the Katana, and the results may end with the software crashing.

I first version was sending the correct sysx headers, just the indication was shown with the GT-100 header, before it is stripped and replaced with the Katana one.

You should be able to change the preamp A types in real-time and hear the changes.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Elantric

#4
QuoteInspired by Snhirsch's great reverse engineering work before me, I had a go at this too.
And I've found you can access the 27 "Sneaky Pre-Amp models instead of just the 5 assigned to the Amp Type knob.

I wrote full how-to's here https://github.com/katana-dev/docs/blob/master/how-to/use-27-amp-types.md
And a reference table here https://github.com/katana-dev/docs/blob/master/tables/amp-types.md


Beanow - Great investigative work! 
https://github.com/katana-dev/docs/blob/master/how-to/use-27-amp-types.md


QuoteI have updated to version 20170408 and made some functional changes.
and Gumtown - as always you are a few steps ahead !!



----
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/23888849/
Apologies to software developers and the great strides they are making with the Kat programming, but I tend to skip over posts dealing with MIDI stuff, since it's way over my head. I nearly missed the hidden 27 amp options today, since it looked like MIDI stuff at first glance.

BUT it isn't! The 27 amps can be loaded into the Kat from Boss Tone Studio by neophytes like me. Hey, I can do that from my computer right now!

In case you missed the "how to" like I did - and it looks simple enough - here is the link again:

https://github.com/katana-dev/docs/blob/master/how-to/use-27-amp-types.md



QuoteMy hearing is also not good enough to identify each model and validate the table. Someone with a GT-100 may be able to confirm whether the models match
I own a GT-100 and IMHO the Katana versions sound better / improved - more dynamic range and compared to GT-100 , the Katana high gain Amp models clean up when you roll your guitar volume down.

melodisk

You  guys are incredible, I'm sure we will have a fully working editor to do this sneaky stuff  :P
I wonder what the default 4 amps are set to,can u read the numbers ?

admin

#6
Quote from: melodisk on April 07, 2017, 11:47:16 AM
You  guys are incredible, I'm sure we will have a fully working editor to do this sneaky stuff  :P
I wonder what the default 4 amps are set to,can u read the numbers ?

These are NOT confirmed - but so far . . . .



more details
https://github.com/katana-dev/docs/blob/master/tables/amp-types.md

Beanow

Quote from: melodisk on April 07, 2017, 11:47:16 AM
I wonder what the default 4 amps are set to,can u read the numbers ?

How I arrived at those default names and numbers in the document:

Both the .tsl files that Tone Studio generates and the Katana's MIDI responses share the numbers that you see in the Sneaky Amp section.
0x08 SysEx for the Clean setting for example.
So those numbers I can certainly confirm.

I went through all 27 of them to see which LED will light up on the Katana. That's how I got the categories for them. So these are Boss' categories, not mine.

Then I took the GT-100 documentation to find out what name goes with each number.
While they appear to be sensible matches, this is what's unconfirmed.

Beanow

Quote from: gumtown on April 07, 2017, 05:27:59 AM
Thanks for trying it, and the Katana ID reply data.
I have updated to version 20170408 and made some functional changes.
...

Had another go at it and didn't work. I made a little bridge script to analyze what you're doing differently from me. I think it's your checksum algorithm that isn't right.

Your software sends this message:
F0 41 00 00 00 00 33 12 60 00 00 51 00 3D F7
While mine sends:
F0 41 00 00 00 00 33 12 60 00 00 51 00 4F F7

Katana Command #[60 00 00 51] = 00  (Amp: NATURAL CLEAN)

Check out the algorithm here https://github.com/snhirsch/katana-midi-bridge/blob/master/doc/katana_sysex.txt#L72
Or as python code here https://github.com/snhirsch/katana-midi-bridge/blob/master/katana.py#L71

P.s. doing this I saw that every amp change SysEx also came with a slur of CC#120=0 and CC#64=0 on all 16 channels. Is that intentional?

gumtown

ooops sorry, I forgot to adjust the checksum calc to allow for the Katana's data

tada!! version 20170408.1
https://sourceforge.net/projects/fxfloorboard/files/experimental/

with correct checksum..
see attached screen capture of midi output,
I am not seeing any extra cc# data with it.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Beanow

Confirming that this works now. Not only the pre-amp but a bunch of other settings work too.
I'll update my docs to list this method. ;D
Nice work!

admin

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/23889081/

NONESENSE WROTE>
So, the extra amp models definitely work. EQing them can be a little tricky, but if you're struggling to get a sound you like, play with the Presence knob. Depending on the model, it can have a massively more significant effect than it does on the stock voicings.

Interestingly enough, the Presence knob actually full-on changed to an AC30-style Cut in the Vox Lead model -- all murk fully clockwise, ear-splittingly bright counterclockwise. That makes me wonder whether any other knobs change function in cases where the amps in question wouldn't have what you're spinning (e.g. a Mids control on a bunch of the Fenders).

Another argument for the K100 -- having a Presence control and extra presets is going to be really nice with the new toys.


https://github.com/katana-dev/docs/blob/master/how-to/use-27-amp-types.md

Elantric

my big question


I wonder if any portion of the Control Assignment Editor  functions?




gumtown

I see you are running Linux Beanow, so I have uploaded a Linux 64 version, built on Ubuntu.
If it doesn't work on your system, I can also upload the source code so you can build in on your Linux system.

The editor does issue an identity request, but I held it back until the "Connect" button is engaged, which after the ID handshake, the editor will request a patch from the Katana.
At this point uncertain things will happen, the editor will either load the patch data or crash (as it has done with test bench patch data).
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Beanow

Quote from: gumtown on April 07, 2017, 09:34:22 PM
I see you are running Linux Beanow, so I have uploaded a Linux 64 version, built on Ubuntu.
If it doesn't work on your system, I can also upload the source code so you can build in on your Linux system.

Beautiful stuff. Works right out of the tarball. Ubuntu 16.04 based 64bit distro here.
Added a little .desktop file to ~/.local/share/applications/ so it shows in my launcher menus and such.

Elantric

#15
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/23893402/

Quote from: Agent76, post: 23893377, member: 186766Man.  This is a pretty big deal.


This might change a few folks minds, it really impacts the definition of what everyone used to think a Katana amp is ,  and redefines and unlocks all that the Roland /Boss Team tucked away inside every Katana.

I feel like jed clampett

"Come and listen to my story about a man named Jed
A poor guitarist, barely kept his G.A.S habit fed,
And then one day he was shootin at some sysex code ,
And up through the Katana DSP come a tone Like a ragin tube .

Oil that is, black gold, Texas tea.

Well the first thing you know ol Jed's a Tone millionaire,"

source: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthemes/beverlyhillbillieslyrics.html"




Beanow

It's really great to see everyone trying out and enjoying the Sneaky Amp types! This got picked up so fast it's hard to keep up with you all, but I'm working on a comprehensive list of what works and what doesn't through the KATANAFxFloorBoard style of editing. I can tell you already, Sneaky Effects lists are inbound :P

On the Amp side of things, it's interesting to know I've updated the Sneaky Amps table to include the BRIGHT setting.
Several of the amps support this. And for a few of them (which I've highlighted too) the effect is very noticeable and worth looking at!

Elantric

And the "T-Comp control too


To understand the new Amps and FX - download the GT-100 Owners manual and FX Parameter Guide

Boss GT-100 Owners Manual
http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/62306816/GT-100_e03_W.pdf

Boss GT-100 Parameter Guide
http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/62306818/GT-100_parameter_e02.pdf

Elantric

Quote from: SeeMoore, post: 23893551, member: 9435Any chance at all of bricking my K100 if I try this new stuff y'all found?
no - its safe - if you get stuck its easy to do a

Katana Factory Reset


Katana Amp Reset procedure

* Press the "Panel" button when turning AC Power Switch on.
This is to specifically reset the Ch 1 - 4 "back to the factory state".

Beanow

Quote from: Elantric on April 08, 2017, 03:05:34 PM
no - its safe - if you get stuck its easy to do a
Katana Factory Reset

Even in all my testing and sending messages to it that were *supposed* to be wrong. I've never needed a reset. It's nice and resistant to you sending it wrong stuff.
The "worst" I've done so far (besides tones that really suck) was selecting a Sneaky Effect that mutes the signal. Just selected a different effect and problem was gone.


Quote from: Elantric on April 08, 2017, 02:58:27 PM
And the "T-Comp control too

Unfortunately my tests so far show that T-Comp does not work. I'm working on a general findings overview based on all the floorboard options. So more on this soon (tm).

Ari

Wow Beanow this is so cool, thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ari

After spending some time with the new amp models, I think that most of the amp models through the katana sound like variations on the same theme, all separated by eq, with the glaring exception of the rectifiers. Also, the katana' knobs and interaction were definitely designed to ideally work with the 5 stock models...tho I like the MS models for crunch more than the crunch channel ! Let me know if I'm off base here...


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Beanow

Quote from: Ari on April 09, 2017, 10:26:19 AM
After spending some time with the new amp models, I think that most of the amp models through the katana sound like variations on the same theme, all separated by eq, with the glaring exception of the rectifiers. Also, the katana' knobs and interaction were definitely designed to ideally work with the 5 stock models...tho I like the MS models for crunch more than the crunch channel ! Let me know if I'm off base here...

Yes the sneaky amps were definitely not intended as normal features. A good amount of reverse engineering work by several people in this forum including me went into uncovering them.
None of the software, or the panels knobs were intended to make them easy to use. And since the sneaky amps are not officially supported they probably haven't put their engineers on tweaking the sound for them "come to life" on the Katanas.

But if there is even just one of them that sounds better to you, whether it sounds authentic or not whether it's been tweaked by Boss or not, if it means you get more enjoyment out of your Katana it's completely worth it. So, have fun with your new tone ingredients!

BenoA


admin

many new patches added here - from Benoa, and Meesha, and they use the new "Sneaky" amps"


http://guitarpatches.com/patches.php?unit=Katana