LightWave Atlantis HexFX

Started by brooster, May 24, 2011, 11:15:09 AM

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#50
Quote from: GuitarBuilder on April 10, 2021, 07:13:18 AM
Incredible how Willcox also calls the Atlantis a MIDI guitar!  I've already commented on the "hex DSP and string fanout boxes". 👎👎👎

Still OK for GK work......
I know folks go "wow optical! - must be the final solution!"
I remain unimpressed - who needs the hiss and palm muting on these remain too awkward for the way I play. 


GuitarBuilder

On my part it's less about the optical and more about the sound.  The mono output sounds much nicer than bridge piezos and is completely quiet.

There is no hiss issue when using GK pitch detection, so synths and pads are fine as well.

The palm muting is only a minor issue for me - just move your right hand a little towards the neck.  I think this is in line with all the other adjustments in playing style that a GK setup requires.  You get used to it, but I can see how it would be very personal.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

admin

#52
Quote from: GuitarBuilder on April 10, 2021, 07:41:50 AM
On my part it's less about the optical and more about the sound.  The mono output sounds much nicer than bridge piezos and is completely quiet.

There is no hiss issue when using GK pitch detection, so synths and pads are fine as well.
But there is hiss when used with GK 13 pin DSP modeling systems

Same design philosophy as Graphtech -  had a debate at NAMM with owner of Graphtech ,  who told me
( the hiss is irrelevant since its just triggering MIDI!)

and they still think all Gk 13 processors are MIDI and triggering samples - including VG-8/VG-99. 

(hint WRONG!)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=14088.0


Quote
The palm muting is only a minor issue for me - just move your right hand a little towards the neck.  I think this is in line with all the other adjustments in playing style that a GK setup requires.  You get used to it, but I can see how it would be very personal.

Its like muting on a Dobro



which is why i removed the cover and be careful with my technique


chrish

#53
Quote from: GuitarBuilder on April 10, 2021, 07:41:50 AM
On my part it's less about the optical and more about the sound.  The mono output sounds much nicer than bridge piezos and is completely quiet.

There is no hiss issue when using GK pitch detection, so synths and pads are fine as well.

The palm muting is only a minor issue for me - just move your right hand a little towards the neck.  I think this is in line with all the other adjustments in playing style that a GK setup requires.  You get used to it, but I can see how it would be very personal.
I agree, this is one very good sounding acoustic electric guitar. The difference with the optical pickup is noticeable from the very first note played.

When played acoustically it's not much louder than a solid body electric guitar but the tone is definitely acoustic. This could prove to be a plus for those who use alternate tunings.

And as noted, the hiss and Distortion for hex DSP processing goes away at lower sensitivity settings.

The palm muting is awkward at first but I find it very comfortable to rest my hand on the existing Bridge cover.

Still have to setup and further test the pitch to midi to external synth. A quick test using the SY1000 midi out to a moog voyager wasn't any better than with a GK3 mounted on an electric guitar. But I suspect the weak link is the Roland pitch to midi conversion.

The sustain characteristics of the Atlantis is very good. Using it with the synth models on the SY1000 produces better sounding results than with my GK3 mounted Roland G505 guitar.

The Atlantis is light, has very very good action and comfortable neck.

Highly recommended.




chrish

#54
I tested the Atlantis Hexfx with the VG8s1. Same result as with the SY1000. You get distortion and hiss at high string sensitivity settings on the VG 8.

That all goes away when the settings are lower down at 22.

I also mounted GK1 hex pickup in the Atlantis. That 24 pin out goes to a GR300.

Works great, and lucky for me the bronze strings had a steel core.

I did get an immediate note Fade Out glitch on an open G string.

And again that glitch completely went away when I placed the headstock against a solid object.

Fat finger on the way.

GuitarBuilder

I also found the Atlantis HexFX GK output to be a lot hotter than Roland GK, but easily compensated for with sensitivity settings.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

chrish

#56
YouTube vid of Jamie Glaser playing an electric tone on the Atlantis Hexfx



chrish

Tried it with the Roland GR50. I've never experienced such excellent tracking playing the internal sounds.

The midi out directly to a Korg Triton midi in also produced excellent results although with the midi out  you definitely have to be aware of clean guitar technique.

chrish

I sent an email to Willcox guitars and they quoted the email on, dare I say the word  ;), facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/173288805687/posts/we-love-and-appreciate-the-letters-and-testimonials-we-get-every-day-thank-you-e/10159171541560688/

After doing all kinds of crazy stuff with the Atlantis and the GR50 today, it was hard to get a glitch. I'm talking banging on the fret board and crazy chord slide stuff.


I have to say that it is as  close to the holly grail of Roland guitar synth controllers as we're going to get.


chrish

One of the criticisms of the bridge design  is that you can't Palm mute at bridge. This is true.

You can mute away from the bridge but it is more difficult to obtain the same effect that you get with that good Bridge palm mute, oftentimes sounding kind of like a sitar Buzz.

I have found another alternative that sounds similar to a palm mute. If you fret the note right on the fret as opposed to just behind the front it offers a similar muting effect.

With palm muting you're limited to playing the note near the bridge.

With the Fret mute you can pick the string anywhere.

chrish

Shootout! Willcox Guitars Atlantis HexFX and Fender Strat with Roland Gk3 pickup system


thebrushwithin

The Atlantis performance was excellent, however, most of the problem sounds I was hearing from the GK strat was induced by a bad 13 pin ground connection, from my personal experience. For me, the 13 pin design is the main Achilles heal, and it continues to drive me crazy, especially when the connection socket, on the guitar, seems to be worn out.

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: thebrushwithin on December 19, 2021, 06:48:26 AM
The Atlantis performance was excellent, however, most of the problem sounds I was hearing from the GK strat was induced by a bad 13 pin ground connection, from my personal experience. For me, the 13 pin design is the main Achilles heal, and it continues to drive me crazy, especially when the connection socket, on the guitar, seems to be worn out.

*This*

I've had several great conversations with Jamie regarding the Atlantis (after I bought mine) and GK-3 guitars - he's a wonderful person and fabulous guitarist (anyone else here try to keep up with Jean-Luc Ponty?).  He provided valuable inputs for the design of a number of SynQuaNon Hexaphonic guitar effects modules.  A great guy overall.  He's sponsored by Willcox, of course, and would certainly not do his best to make a Roland GK-3 equipped guitar sound good!

I would add to the above that most likely the string sensitivities or perhaps the GK pickup height were not optimized.  Note that he only palm mutes the GK-3 guitar intermittently and pays less attention to playing technique than on the Atlantis.  That does mean something: the Atlantis is simply a better GK synth controller (this is where hex output noise is not a real issue)!  The downside is that palm muting is not an option (as chrish concurs - he has my old Atlantis!).  So BOTH guitars force the player to modify his/her playing style to get the best GK synth results (I guess you could say that for pretty much all GK synth controllers).  The GK-3 guitar is more sensitive to setup in my experience.

So why did I sell the Atlantis?  Only because I already have 6 GK-2/GK-3 guitars and I bought it to explore its application to single-string GUITAR AUDIO processing, i.e. not for pitch detection.  As mentioned earlier in this thread, the Atlantis had higher output noise than any of my other GK guitars, enough to warrant the need for a hexaphonic noise gate.  Otherwise, it's a wonderful guitar!

My go-to GK synth controllers these days are a Godin Multiac ACS SA nylon string for acoustic work as well as my stable of Peter Knoot Custom guitars with Cycfi Research Nu Multi Hex pickups and 19-pin interface for electric and SynQuaNon single-string processing work.  The latter is far more robust than the GK jack & plug system (which I concur is the Achilles Heel, even with the stellar Synth-Linx metal jacks - a great improvement and highly recommended retrofit) by using medical-grade miniature metal connectors, 15 channels of audio/CV and an integrated 12V ultra low noise power supply to power pickups, electronics, etc.

Teaser/spoiler alert: I am currently modifying an XFrame R66Mk6 12-coil Humbucker Hex distortion pickup with hex output (the stock version is mono out).  The goal is to have clean, noise-free buffered individual string outputs for GK synth and single-string processing, while also producing an active mono output with CV-controlled distortion, all in a standard humbucker pickup format.  It should be compatible with the Roland GK and Cycfi Research Nu Multi internal breakout boards for retrofit purposes. Check out the stock pickup here:

https://somniumguitars.com/r66-active-hexaphonic-variable-gain-pickup/

https://www.xframeguitars.com/en/r66mk6c/

Initial tests on GR-55 and GP-10 are very promising!
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

chrish

#63
Quote from: thebrushwithin on December 19, 2021, 06:48:26 AM
The Atlantis performance was excellent, however, most of the problem sounds I was hearing from the GK strat was induced by a bad 13 pin ground connection, from my personal experience. For me, the 13 pin design is the main Achilles heal, and it continues to drive me crazy, especially when the connection socket, on the guitar, seems to be worn out.
hmm. So much of the poor tracking that most experience is due to a poor ground. Interesting. I'd say that his stat GK3 is a typical result many experience and are turned off PCM based guitar synths.

Like guitar builder, I also get good PCM based GR tracking results using the Godin multisac nylon string guutar wuth RMC hex piezo pup and pre amp.



admin

#64
So far my best tracking guitar is a Korean Line-6 Tyler Variax JTV-69 , with GK-3 hex PU mounted on a removable bridge pickup mounting ring from eBay. Placing GK pickup further away from the the bridge than recommended. It provides excellent results, even with troublesome GR-55 PCM synths.


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=40.0

Be aware the GK-3 pickup performance suffers when its mounted too close to the bridge.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13322.0

chrish

#65
Just to update on the Atlantis string muting concern.

So normal palm muting techniques at the bridge are not intuitive when you first get this guitar. There's a shield over the optical pick up which makes access to the bridge impossible.

It is possible to use the fingers just above the Fret on the left hand ( or right for you lefties) to mute the strings and I have done that. But it's a lot of work to change to that technique after a lot of years of palm muting the bridge so I gave up on the idea of any kind of string muting.

Inadvertently I just found out today that I have been learning to Palm mute the strings and now it's becoming second nature on this guitar.

Placeling the palm on the strings just in front of the bridge no longer feels awkward, after all, I didn't know I was doing that while learning that technique, it just happened.

So really not an issue.

Did I mention the tracking is amazing going into a SY1000 dialed into a Dreadbox Nymphes via the SY1000s p2m.

I've found the each external synth needs its own string sensitivity setting, feel, Dynamics etc. I spent a lot of time pairing these two boxes with each other via the Atlanta's hex FX.

I also use the Roland GR50 with this guitar and different external synthesizers and the setup is not so finicky.

The GR50 and SY1000 are run simultaneously through a Roland US 20 13 pin splitter box.

This gives me 3 P2M outs that can be running a combination of poly, mono, string on and off, interval tuning such as octaves and 5ths, and  alt tune from the SY1000.