GR55 - PCM1, PCM2, Model, Normal Guitar Pickup Question

Started by NightSky, November 15, 2022, 02:37:35 PM

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NightSky

Hello all,

Just purchased the GR55 about a week ago. I understand that the PCM 1 and 2 are the synth tones (pulse code modulation) and I understand what modeling is, but the modeling vs normal pickup is confusing me... My guitars are Godin multiac SA nylon and a steel string LGX SA solid body electric.

I assume the normal pickup setting is for when you want to control the volume of the model with the guitar volume knob and the PCM's synth level with the synth volume..

If that is correct then the model selection button seems kind of pointless. It must be for when you want to control everthing from the synth volume knob... It seems like this would give less control of the sound... But I guess you could run the normal pick to outboard effects wile using the model selevction to have PCM 1 & 2 nand the model happening all at once.

Am I thinking of this correctly?

Still thinking of sending the GR55 back and getting the SY1000 instead. I just need a good bass tone for the 5th and 6th strings and ensemble string patch for strings 4,3,2 & 1. Thats the only patch I ever used with my GR1 and it really worked well.

The GR55 seems more glitchy with the PCM bass, and the acoustic bass tones are... for lack of a better word "puffy" with no focus IMHO. I tried a model and lowered the octave but got symphatetic vibrations on the low E... not pleasant vibrations but a sort of wobling sound.

It probably just my lack of understanding of the GR55..

Thanks for any suggestions or help!

All the best
Danny

gumtown

Modeled tone is derived from the GK pickup, Normal pickup is the built in "normal pickup' in the guitar.
Two separate tone sources.

The SY-1000 might be better suited to your needs.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

DreamTheory

By now you have made a decision about your rig, I'm sure. Did you stay with GR-55 or go to the SY-1000?

If you are still in GR-55 land, then you must have worked out that the "Normal" pickups are the magnetic pickups installed in your guitar, the ones that every electric guitar has, and the "Model" tones come from the 6 minihumbuckers that comprise the GK pickup. Both are 100% analog.

electric: Epiphone Dot semihollow body, acoustic: mahogany jumbo, recording: Cubase Artist 11 or Tascam DP008

gumbo

...the seemingly-frequent cause-for-concern/disappointment with Roland gear appears to lie squarely with the marketing department ...who fail to point out in words of one syllable that just because the newer/later synthbox has a higher number in its model name, it DOESN'T necessarily follow through that it's actually BETTER...      ...just different.

Maybe it will stop when someone releases a television series called "Grumpy Old Roland Owners", and people start joining the hitherto invisible dots.

...sigh..

...exits stage left to the bathroom medicine cabinet to take another swig of anti-grump elixir before it's too late and Roland's men-in-white-coats appear at the door.

Keep smiling...people will leave you alone because they think you are ill.
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

NightSky

Hi Gumbo,
 I agree with your statement:
"...the seemingly-frequent cause-for-concern/disappointment with Roland gear appears to lie squarely with the marketing department ...who fail to point out in words of one syllable that just because the newer/later synthbox has a higher number in its model name, it DOESN'T necessarily follow through that it's actually BETTER...      ...just different".

There is no need for argument here. I am as you describe dissappointed with the new GR-55 and SY-1000 but am knowledgeable. Try this... load a bass tone and turn off the other 2 occilators. Now play the first string open. Do you hear the overtones from the 6th string and other harmonics? That is my issue. I am a professional musicain, I have a masters degree in music, teach at a university and I run a small project studio. I play solo jazz guitar and use the synth for bass tones on the 5th and 6th strings. The SY-1000 and the GR-55 both have troublesome sympathetic vibrations on other strings. These sympathetic vibrations are not plesant tones like on a purely acoustic instrument. They are pretty nasty! Trying to mute them is not possible in most cases. I believe Roland can solve this issue if they are made aware of it by enough users. I am not the only one noticing this problem. My GR-1 did not have this issue... so yes, you are correct, I am a grumpy old GR-1 user! I would make be happy to buy you a beer or whatever you have in your medicie cabinetif you just allow me to state my concerns without making fun of me... maybe a zoom beer?? Danny

NightSky

Hi DreamTheory,

"By now you have made a decision about your rig, I'm sure. Did you stay with GR-55 or go to the SY-1000"?
I did return the GR-55 and purchased an SY-1000 but will be returning it next week. I found that both the GR-55 and the SY-1000 create sympathetic vibrations on other strings. Normally on a purely acoustic instrument this would be expected, plesant and reinforce the fundamental tone. On a synth, these sympathetic vibrations are pretty nasty and very distracting for my style of playing. I use a guitar synth for bass tones on the 5th and 6th strings and a string (orchestral) tone with slow attack on the other strings. The normal guitar tone is the prevalent sound with the bass and strings supporting it. Trying to mute the offending strings is not possible... and I have been playing professionally for over 40 years (I'm old!), have an undergraduate degree in classical guitar performance and a masters degree in jazz studies with guitar as my instrument. Try this... load a bass tone in one occilator and turn off the other two occilators. Play the first string open... Do you hear the other overtones ringing... especially at the octave and 5th as one would expect on an acoustic instrument. These tones are not plesant on a synth and destroy the clarity of complex chord voicings... I believe the Roland engineering team can fix this if they understand it is a problem... My old GR-1 did not have this issue... and that may be a clue on how to remedy the problem. I am not the only player having this problem. Hopefully Roland is reading this forum list and will take a look at this. I hope so! I want my 5th and 6th string bass back and the GR-1 is dead!!

"If you are still in GR-55 land, then you must have worked out that the "Normal" pickups are the magnetic pickups installed in your guitar, the ones that every electric guitar has, and the "Model" tones come from the 6 minihumbuckers that comprise the GK pickup. Both are 100% analog".
Yes, I did indeed work this out with the help of this list, the manual and just experimenting.
Thanks for your reply!
Danny

gumbo

Quote from: NightSky on December 15, 2022, 11:12:08 AMHi Gumbo,
 I agree with your statement:
"...the seemingly-frequent cause-for-concern/disappointment with Roland gear appears to lie squarely with the marketing department ...who fail to point out in words of one syllable that just because the newer/later synthbox has a higher number in its model name, it DOESN'T necessarily follow through that it's actually BETTER...      ...just different".

There is no need for argument here. I am as you describe dissappointed with the new GR-55 and SY-1000 but am knowledgeable. Try this... load a bass tone and turn off the other 2 occilators. Now play the first string open. Do you hear the overtones from the 6th string and other harmonics? That is my issue. I am a professional musicain, I have a masters degree in music, teach at a university and I run a small project studio. I play solo jazz guitar and use the synth for bass tones on the 5th and 6th strings. The SY-1000 and the GR-55 both have troublesome sympathetic vibrations on other strings. These sympathetic vibrations are not plesant tones like on a purely acoustic instrument. They are pretty nasty! Trying to mute them is not possible in most cases. I believe Roland can solve this issue if they are made aware of it by enough users. I am not the only one noticing this problem. My GR-1 did not have this issue... so yes, you are correct, I am a grumpy old GR-1 user! I would make be happy to buy you a beer or whatever you have in your medicie cabinetif you just allow me to state my concerns without making fun of me... maybe a zoom beer?? Danny



Danny...

...I was not making fun of you...
...the sentiments that you expressed about expectations of a 'newer' synthbox working better/providing a more pleasing/functional result have been aired by MANY users here on this Forum over the years...

Many disappointed users as a result and many (at least so they have said) boxes have been sent back or sold off...sometimes to be repurchased later when some of the dust has settled  ...and sometimes (!) actually as a result of Roland intervention...but not that often, actually.

As we say Down Here in Oz, if I was 'having-a-go' at anyone at all, it was my interpretation of the standard Roland non-response to complaints and resultant disgruntledness and annoyance of users who felt they had been misled.

I have lost count of the number of times I have read of people's reports of their disappointment and frustration at not getting what they thought they had paid their good money for.....  in my opinion (and any/all are welcome to disagree !) I lay the blame squarely at the 'marketing stories' which have always seemed to lack truth and understanding from the beginning.

It is that situation that has progressively led to the situation(s) that are often repeated here on this forum...

Stangely enough, a recent post on THIS thread:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=35155.0;topicseen

...seem to indicate (very surprisingly) that Roland are suddenly now taking note of things said here on the Forum, and taking these comments seriously....those of us who have been here for more than a decade, are probably pleasantly surprised but still waiting for an indication that this is not just another line from the marketing department.

Peace, Danny....I will have that Zoom beer (or a nice scotch!) with you anytime you feel like it... ;)     ...I am not always Grumpy, but unfortunately I am Old most of the time.   ::)

Cheers from OZ

Peter
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

NightSky

Hi Bluesbird,

I have just recorded an example of the issue I have described with the GR-55 and SY-1000. I am new to this forum and not sure I am uploading the audio corectly. Please let me know itf you are sucessful in opening it.

Thank you!
Danny

NightSky

Bluesbird,

For some reason I am having difficulty uploading this file... I have tried several times and get the following message.

"The current total attachment size allowed per post is 8192 KB. The total amount of the selected files is 1981 KB"

I don't get it, but again I am new here. Do you have any idea what the problem might be? I should be within the file size limitations.
Danny

NightSky

Here are my settings... Remember I am using the bass sounds on strings 5 & 6 only and have the normal guitar pickup active as well.. If I turn off the normal guitar the problem still exists..

Please let me know if you get this.

Thanks
Danny

NightSky

Hi Bluesbird,

I definitely tried the fret wrap approach.. It would work for heavy metal but not for jazz guitar or folk rock tunes. I really need the strings to ring when I play an open string chord... that is the beauty of the guitar for me. I think Roland can fix this once atey are aware of the problem.

Thanks for trying to help me!
Danny

NightSky

Bluesbird,

My question is this... If the normal symphatetic vibrations are in a frequency or tonal area that is unplesant aurally then shouldn't there be a way to elliminate these?

For a totally acoustic instrument, these symphatetic vibrations are expected and they reinforce and color the sound in a musical way. For a synth these symphatetic vibrations are pretty nasty and color the sound in a negative way, perhaps becacuse they are not the actual focused, plucked sound but regurtations of "ghost" sounds that obscure the harmony... especially of complex harmonies. I trully feel like Roland can fix this and hope they are following this thread!!

For your playing style they may present no issues, but for me they are unuseable and unfortunately I love the sound of bass along with my 5th and 6th strings on solo gigs... My old GR-1 did not have these problems and perhaps it provides a clue to a way of fixing it!
Just me.. but I sure miss my 5th and 6th string bass and my GR-1 is dead!!

Thanks for your help
Danny

NightSky

Hi Bluesbird,

"You can't compare the GR-1 to the SY-1000 guitar modeling—they are drastically different types of technology. If you want to do pitch to midi on the 5th and 6th strings (as you were doing with the GR-1), the Tripleplay would work well for you. Or a used Roland GI-20, or a GR-33".

Man, I COMPLETELY understand your reply about trying to compare the GR-1 to the SY-1000 guitar modeling—they are drastically different... I completely and whole heartly agree! My issue is with the triggering of symphathetic by notes being triggered unintientionally causing havocic with chordal harmonies. I will look at the "Tripleplay" hopefully it will allow me to play and assign bass to the 5th and 6th strings as I have mentioned.

As I understand it only the GR-55 and Sy-1000 will allow assiginig tones to various string sets... but I could be absolutely wrong.

Thanks for your help and suggestions!
Danny