GP-10 as a midi controller for ableton (latency troubleshoot)

Started by jessewilliammiller, July 09, 2023, 10:12:59 AM

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jessewilliammiller

New here!

My goal is to be able to play my soft synths in Ableton (serum, kontakt, ableton synths) using my guitar as a MIDI controller - polyphonically, expressively, musically, without latency. Ideally I would like to be able to blend my real guitar (strat pickups) with the soft synths as well and easily switch between the two.

So I bought a Roland GK-3 divided pickup and a Boss GP-10 with the usb out. I installed the Gk-3 on my strat as close to the bridge/strings as possible without buzz, and plugged that into the GP-10 with the 13 pin cable. Connected the GP-10 to my Mac via the usb out (macbook pro M-1 running Ventura) and downloaded the latest GP-10 usb driver, and it worked to send a midi signal! ... but... the latency is just right on the line of being unplayable. Definitely hard to keep good time playing with it. SO what's the fix for this problem? Is it the pickup or the GP? Do I need to buy one of those devoted MIDI guitars like the jamstick or the Godin?

I only bought the Gp-10/Gk-3 to be able to do this function, the guitar to midi controller, I don't really like the onboard effects or synths that it comes with, and I want to be able to play the synths I already have in my computer, so if there's another way to achieve this goal of no latency, I'm all ears!


I use a few non-guitar midi controllers all the time to play these same soft synths in ableton and have no issues with latency, so it's not on the computer end.n I'm new to the MIDI guitar world so I may be missing some obvious points here, please educate me!

Thanks!

AlakaLazlo

Guitar to midi via pitch detection is always going to create some latency.
There are better guitar interfaces than the GP10, such as the Fishman Tripleplay and the (discontinued) Axon units (I use an Axon AX50) but even these have some latency. You will find that the latency is noticeably greater on the lower notes than the higher notes.
The reason is because in order to create a note/pitch, the string has to vibrate at a specific frequency. The lower notes vibrate at lower frequencies, and the converter needs to see at least some portion of the complete string vibration cycle/frequency to be able to ascertain the note, which it must then convert to a midi note. The lower notes take longer to complete a vibration cycle, and therefore longer to convert than the higher notes.
There are other methods of guitar to midi conversion that are faster, specifically fret wired systems like the Zeta and the Synthaxe, but they are lacking in other performance aspects. These basically function by sensing a string contacting a fret which then creates a note like pressing a key on a keyboard. But bends and vibrato won't change the note pitches.
Depending on your converter's and/or DAW's software, you could string your guitar with alternate string gauges (e.g., replace your low E with a high E; the low A with a high B tuned down to A, and the low D with a high E tuned down to D; and then set your converter/DAW to transpose the notes down 1 or 2 octaves - similar to what is known as Nashville tuning) which will reduce the amount of time the lower string needs to create the pitch and the latency related thereto, but the guitar will obviously not sound the same played normally.   
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jessewilliammiller

I understand there's going to be some latency, it's just that the latency is so bad that it's unplayable. Don't really want to resort to a Nashville tuning, because I'd like to use the guitar as a normal guitar, too, and blend the two. I saw Blake Mills using the GP-10 at a show very musically to play synth parts with his guitar, so I know it's possible to use it for that, but he was also playing a devoted MIDI guitar (I'm not sure the brand I think it was custom made) but his bandmate was also doing midi stuff with a Godin Multi AC.

gumtown

guitar to midi conversion latency is not too bad, not bad enough to make playing impossible.

Much latency or bad triggering comes down to the connected midi sound module, choice of settings, and the selected midi tone type.
Some sound module tones have a slow attack rise time which makes fast note changes difficult to keep up with.
Changing ADSR settings in your tone generator will help with this.

Setting your GP-10 guitar to midi to "mono mode" can help, allocating one midi channel per string, instead of cramming all the guitar data into one midi channel.

There are lots of variables which make midi guitar good or bad, it depends on how they are stacked in your favor. 
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Elantric