To bid or not to bid - that is the question

Started by Welshman-fgn, March 05, 2010, 12:04:26 PM

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yzept

And now for something completely different....

Fryette have just started production/shipping (finally) on their Memphis Combo, It would be worth having a listen if you can find a dealer who can get stock. It is from what I have been told a very very good thing and ticks a lot of boxes in your original wish list. If it has any of the Sig X genes it should be amazing, and a ton of fun. 

Elantric may have an opinion.

Just offering something else to consider.



http://www.sfdamp.com/memphis.html

http://www.vhtusers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2933








dirtypurple

#26
Quote
Perhaps its higher over here due to exchange rates?

Quote from:  Johnnyurq on March 08, 2010, 01:45:44 PM
Wow I thought it was only us in the UK that got ripped off when buying imported kit. I guess UK amps and musical equipment get marked up heavy when exported to the US too.

But that would be almost £1200 in GBP where as the S1 45 is £899 ($1355) if old stock and £949 ($1430) if not.

The joys of import taxes etc.

They are made in Korea though...

Only the design is done in the UK - like more or less everything else here.

Johnnyurq-fgn

Quote from:  vanceg on March 18, 2010, 09:04:11 PM
Hey Jonny - Is that your Les Paul Recording?  I'd love to see a larger picture of it!  I've got one too - and mine is the only one I've ever seen in person. I wish I had the Bass version too - there is a great video of Tina Wymouth from the Talking Heads playing one in 79 in italy.... Love those instruments...though they way FAR too much for me to actually use it now.....


Hi Vance,

Thanks for the interest I will dig some out or take new ones and post them.

For sure it is a heavy axe but I am built for heavy guitars so 2 or 3 hour gigs are not a problem for me.

I love it and will never sell it due to the wide range of tones and excellent playability.

It is one of those guitars where playing it is like putting on an old pair of slippers.

I have used it with a GK2a and GK3 hex external pickup with the VG and GR kit and that was cool but not ideal. I keep on going to make a move and get it sent to a Luthier to have an internal GK3 kit installed as there is a good  tech down south that does great work on these. He doesn't spoil the look of the guitar.

The DF was the antidote to stopping me doing this but as I will never sell it I may go through with it one day anyhow. Especially if using the DF for the VG-99 doesn't work out as I hoped.

Cheers

Johnny

Johnnyurq-fgn

Quote from:  Elantric on March 19, 2010, 04:23:35 AM
My two cents

I understand in the UK several clubs have to follow a new law that live music can not exceed 85 decibels.

Bummer, as that will make it very tough to utilize Most old school Tube amps 50 watts or higher.
Rather odd because  here in the USA, THX Movie Cinema Surround Sound systems are calibrated at 85db, and must have 20db of useable headroom at that level. (=105db).

The typical Movie today, with more sound design than plot hits 105db  every minute.

It will be tough to play clubs at a lower decibel level than the typical garbage truck making its rounds.


More here
http://vancouver.ca/engsvcs/projects/soundsmart/soundAndNoise.htm


Its for these reasons that VG-99's and V-Drums and In Ear Monitors might be a better path to master.

Yes Elantric it is becoming a big issue around my area just now as more and more pubs/clubs are starting to enforce the regulations based on requests and complaints from bar staff or in particular new homes and flats built recently.

A lot of bands are wrestling with this and it is not only fully live bands as one or two who use MIDI backing for drums, bass and synth have fallen fowl of the 85 dB limit.

Thankfully not all are enforcing it and some others who are are setting a higher SPL as the limit based on the new UK regs on noise at work etc.

If only we could get our technohpobe drummer to use Electronic drums as all our issues would be resolved as the rest of the band has disciplined ourselves to work with the regs. He will not even use an ION clone of the Roland Octopad to allow him to rehearse at home without wife and neighbours hassling him. This is on the grounds it is too complex whihc it is not as on turn on it defaults to the last kit used, plus he can jack in an MP3 player or whatever.

Maybe new drummer required.

Oh well fun times ahead.

Johnnyurq-fgn

Quote from:  dirtypurple on March 19, 2010, 07:18:49 AM
Quote
Perhaps its higher over here due to exchange rates?

Quote from:  Johnnyurq on March 08, 2010, 01:45:44 PM
Wow I thought it was only us in the UK that got ripped off when buying imported kit. I guess UK amps and musical equipment get marked up heavy when exported to the US too.

But that would be almost £1200 in GBP where as the S1 45 is £899 ($1355) if old stock and £949 ($1430) if not.

The joys of import taxes etc.

They are made in Korea though...

Only the design is done in the UK - like more or less everything else here.


Of course you are quite correct as I forgot that this was the case and yes far too many things are done this way nowadays. The only upside is better prices.

Welshman-fgn

I must admit, the fact that the Blackstar's are made in Korea HAS brought out the gear snob in me - I prefer handmade gear from the UK or US.

MCK - watch out for those Mk Vs, they are even more addictive than Matamps! I was just messing around the other night and had the Mk V in Mk I mode, switched my DF to Rock and, lo and behold, Chuck Berry was playing Johnny B Goode through my amp! As for the stereo thing, I've tried two different amps before using a stereo chorus pedal and wasn't overly impressed. Using two Mk Vs SHOULD provide one hell of a wall of sound!
If you find a cure for GAS let me know!!!!!

MCK-fgn

I would also add Canada to the good handmade stuff list. Seriously good boutique builders out there... Checkout Stephenson if you have time for example. Still there is a whole lot of "Made in USA" crapola going on too... You can have a small outfit building in the US with cheap material & labor and get the. Doesn't mean the end product will be any better than the the Asian builds etc. So ultimately what matters in how the maker intends to build the product and at what cost structure.

Yup. I will take one hard look at Mark V and put it on my 2011 shopping list perhaps. I think I over-stretched my Mrs' patience already for 2010...  ;D Have a Carol Ann OD2 and Revo-1 coming in soon. Just took delivery of my Stephenson Custom 20W amp which I'm really raving about. That's on top of a Mesa Express 5:25 I picked up earlier in the year and a Reason Bambino just recently... The Bambino is real cool if you need a low power amp (2w/8w switchable) with great versatility.

So in summary, I should stop buying more amps... But that Mark V... Darn.
Dark Fire Initial Check Out  - Q/A
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31267.0

Caig DeOxit - Buy now before you need it !!!
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31707.0

Welshman-fgn

I was shocked by how good the Mk V is - I HATED my Mesa Solo Head.
Fair point about the fact that "Hand made in the USA" (or the UK for that matter) does not always make for a quality product, but hand wired vs mass produced pcb based amps USUALLY makes for a better sounding amp imho.
If you find a cure for GAS let me know!!!!!

MCK-fgn

Good thread on the Mark V here with some balanced views. I certainly would like to try it one day.

By the way, I fully agree with you on the PtP vs PCB thing for old fashioned tube amps but be warned Mesa Mark V is probably not one of them. Mesa amps usually have very complicated & crowded PCB layouts. That being said it is what it is. PCB build when done well provides for consistecy and that's a good thing.

How does it work with your Chameleon Tones?
Dark Fire Initial Check Out  - Q/A
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31267.0

Caig DeOxit - Buy now before you need it !!!
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31707.0

Welshman-fgn

Hi MCK,
yes, the Mk V DOES have PCBs in it, but it is made in a factory that has been building valve amps for years by people who are "time served" in the industry. Many of the modern brands are made in the far east in factories that have little or no history with these products.

As for the Mk V and the Chameleon tones, they work VERY well together. As I said in a prior post, the Rock setting allowed me to dial in a very believable Chuck Berry sound. TBH, I've used the tones a lot more with the Mk V than anything else because the amp sounds so good that it encourages you to try things out. It's improving my playing as well because there is nowhere to hide on that clean channel!

I'm just looking forward to this week now because my G system is arriving (and the polytune) and I can spend some time experimenting - I'll try several different types of amp in stereo before making a decision on that amp for use in school/small gigs.
If you find a cure for GAS let me know!!!!!

MCK-fgn

Agreed. I wasn't putting Mesa or PCB based amps down at all. When done with "quality first" in mind there is nothing wrong with it and it does allow the designer to put in many features which would be overly complicated in a PtP build. Mesa certainly builds quality gear!
Dark Fire Initial Check Out  - Q/A
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31267.0

Caig DeOxit - Buy now before you need it !!!
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31707.0

Welshman-fgn

Quote from:  MCK on March 21, 2010, 07:00:51 PM
Agreed. I wasn't putting Mesa or PCB based amps down at all. When done with "quality first" in mind there is nothing wrong with it and it does allow the designer to put in many features which would be overly complicated in a PtP build. Mesa certainly builds quality gear!
Unfortunately, far too many products these days are being built on a "cut costs first" approach which is why they are built in places like China or Korea in the first place. I know that it sounds like I'm on a bit of an anti globalisation rant here, but I object to companies farming out the manufacturing of their products to the lowest tender and then pocketing the savings rather than passing them on to us customers.
This is what attracted me to the Matamps. They are designed and built by people who love music and know how to craft an amp that has a soul!
Mesa at least started out the same way and must retain at least some of that ethos despite now being a global player, but the Chinese and Koreans have no history at all with these products and are just manufacturing to a design that they got by email!
RANT OVER
Can now look forward to receiving my G system and having fun experimenting with it.
If you find a cure for GAS let me know!!!!!

dirtypurple

Not wishing to start an argument here but...

Taking Blackstar as an example. Even if they were manufactured in the UK, they would probably still use 80% of components sourced from the Far East. Thats where almost all electronic components are made. And given most components are made by machines, it probably doesn't matter which country that machine is in!

So I reckon if Blackstar made their amps here, they would have to import almost all of the components and they would be doing the final assembly. With good quality control in Korea - whats the point? From having one for about a year, I would say they are very well made and reliable.

Even your boutique amp built in a shed will have the majority of its parts imported. I'd just go with the value for money option - its good design thats the key.

Just my slant.

MCK-fgn

Very good argument. Machines make parts. People feed machines raw materials... People choose to be good or make more money... Not all parts coming out of Asia are good or bad. Look at the recent fake capacitor batches that found their way into Weber store as well as other places.  So if you have certain standards that you can apply and a good design, having things manufactured in Asia is not a bad thing. It all ends up in what a company is willing to do in order to insure quality. Anyways. No winning or loosing here. Choose & buy wisely and you'll be alright.
Dark Fire Initial Check Out  - Q/A
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31267.0

Caig DeOxit - Buy now before you need it !!!
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31707.0

Johnnyurq-fgn

Whilst not a fan of Globalisation and the socio-economic issues it brings with it we are now stuck with it.

There are a lot of big players that are using China, Korea and all points fare east and the ones that have invested properly in the training, construction and QA are making remarkably good products. PRS SE's and the like for starters.

I have to agree with Dirtypurple that the 2 Blackstar amp I have owned were really well made and made excellent noises. Others I know that have bought them say the same.

When they launched the HT-5 in some places in the UK varying power supply issues caused a problem with some of the values of a couple of components and once identified Blackstar took all the amps back that suffered this problem and reworked them in the UK. There was one guy who complained of this issue and because he lived a reasonable distance (50 miles or so) from their base and they got someone to drive over collect the amp sort it and then drove it back.

I personally needed help when I got the S1 45 because when jacking my VG-99 into the FX return did not work as it has on other amps. One email later and one of the co-founders had personally called me to talk me through a solution. it turned out with no lead jacked into the front input the FX loop shuts down for some technical by design reason that made sense at the time. So I put dummy jack in the front when using the amp this way and problem solved.

With the exception of Marshall whose after sales service is excellent I have had no other major player that has stood by their product so well.

Taking Blackstar they are a case in point as they took 5 or more years to bring their products to market as they found the right place to have them made based on skills etc and they then went over there to oversee training and QA. This I believe is the best way to do things and other companies like Vintage (JHS + Trevor Wilkinson) and PRS also have adopted a similar method.

I personally have seen some stunningly well made guitars from the far east which exceed the fit and finish of either Fender or Gibson and UK built ones too. Some Tokai's and the signature Les Paul's are a case in point.

The thing is this has been the case for many years now and as an example I have an old Epiphone Casino I think was made in Korea which is better built than some ES-335's I have played and owned from Gibson and I have also owned and played MIJ/CIJ strats that were far better built and better players than even some American made Strats never mind Mexican ones.

It was the same story with an Epiphone Sheraton I bought new 12 years ago it required minimal work to get it setup to play great and again quite a few Gibson ES335 type guitars I have owned and seen took way much more work before getting there. £500 versus £1800 to £2000 I know where my money would go.

Of course as with all guitars cheap or expensive actually playing the guitar before buying is always the best way to go as there are lemons in all price brackets.

As MCK states it is good to have choice and I reckon most of a guitars attributes are subjective in any case, so you pays your money and you takes your choice.

Just my 2c

MCK-fgn

Great to hear this about Blackstar. Kudos on them. I would be happy & proud to own one of their products by the sounds of it.
Dark Fire Initial Check Out  - Q/A
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Caig DeOxit - Buy now before you need it !!!
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Welshman-fgn

I've started a heated debate!
Can I first clear something up - I disagree with the process of using cheap far eastern labour purely to cut costs - I am NOT having a pop at Blackstar!
In fact, the Blackstar Series 1 100 is still one of the front runners in my quest for a secondary amp that will sometimes be used in stereo with my Mk V. Its variable power feature makes it a very attractive unit indeed.
Apart from the manufacturing issue, my only problems with it are:
1.  I would need to reprogram the G system every time I switched from one amp to the other
2.  I would need to buy a new cab (amp + cab STILL cheaper than Mk V head)
3.  Wouldn't be able to get exact same settings on both amps
4.  No reverb

On the plus note:
1.  Cheaper
2.  Whilst it produces different tones than the Mk V, it makes some very nice tones of its own
3.  Midi switching
4.  Speaker emulated output

On top of all of this confusion, I've had some bad news today - my G system won't be here for about 2 weeks because the distributor has let down the dealer. I was really looking forward to trying out the system with a few different amps in stereo to help my decision process. I'm trying to make this a "head" decision rather than a "heart" decision - political beliefs aside, the thought of a brace of Mk Vs side by side is a VERY attractive prospect.
If you find a cure for GAS let me know!!!!!

Johnnyurq-fgn

I prefer to call it a healthy and robust debate, no heatedness (sic) on my behalf for sure.

For the record I don't agree with cheap labour being used/exploited in any country, UK included.

I am also speaking as a reformed gear snob.

Unfortunately the genies of globalisation and linked world economies are a reality and it would take a miracle of biblical proportions to reverse that as people sure do love cheap goods. So we are forced to work with the system we have.

Wherever possible I try to spend on companies that at the very least afford the eastern labour force a half decent wage and as important decent living and working conditions. Not always possible I realise.

Blackstar I believe fall into that bracket of trying to do the right thing, whilst still making a profit of course.

I own a few amps and have over the years owned a fair few. I am certainly not a Blackstar fanboy I am merely basing it on my experience of the product and after sales service. If they chose to only make them in the UK I would have paid the extra based on my experience so far. but without that experience I may not have if I had to buy it blind.

The lack of reverb used to be annoying but I just use the VG-99's reverb and that works for me.

it is worth checking out Jamie Humphries work out of the S1 series if you are considering Blackstar as he shows them off quite well. If you have seen them just ignore this.

Here is a link to the first one.



I hear you on having to reprogram the G system and FX for each amp it is a PITA. that is why I use a VG-99 these days as it is easy with the software to copy the patches I use and tweak for each amp I own/use so a set for each amp. Not sure if this is an option on the G system.

Bummer on having to wait for the G system, I hate waiting for new gear. You would think that being part of the great wait of 2009 for the DF I would be acclimatised to it more.

BTW I love Mesa's but some of them are a PITA to dial on the tones you want (too many options) but a gaggle of Mesa's sounds like fun.

As a final word on the global economy and globalisation here is a link to a harrowing read about Dubai which IMHO shows that it could easily turn to sh**. It is a long read but a very sobering and interesting one nonetheless.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html

All that glitters is not gold I feel applies.




Welshman-fgn

Hi Johnny,
yes, I'd previously seen the videos that Jamie has made (plus the others on their website) and have been impressed by the quality of the sounds produced.
The G System (when the damn thing arrives) also has a variety of reverbs so that's not a deal breaker.
I've just downloaded an editor for the G System that has shed a little more light on it's operation than the manual does and it looks like I can create a set of patches for one amp and then copy them on to another set and just tweak the amp switching ( I actually think that the same preset could be used for both amps as it can be programmed to set the switching relays AND send a midi signal at the same time). This would simplify things a lot - the level of control that the G system has is simply staggering - I want it even more now!
If you find a cure for GAS let me know!!!!!

Johnnyurq-fgn

I agree the G System is really an excellent piece of kit with many options and one I intend to GAS on when I have exhausted my current to buy list.

The Nova system looks pretty good too if not as comprehensive.

Did you get the new reddish coloured one? I like that compared to the plain silver.

I love how TC did that video of them "stress testing" the G system with a small armoured vehicle, boy they make them tough.

Be intersted to hear your views on it when you finally manage to get it.

Welshman-fgn

I liked that video too - it means that it's ok to throw it at a wall when you get stuck programming it!

Colourwise, I'm getting the boring silver one - Anderton's currently have them on offer with a free nova drive pedal (£200 worth). It's just a shame that I have to wait - hopefully less time than the wait for the DF ;)

It should be here in 2 weeks so I'll give you all an update when it gets here - maybe I'll have also come to a decision on the other amp as well and I will be able to show off my new rig!
If you find a cure for GAS let me know!!!!!

Johnnyurq-fgn

Nice one I look forward to getting your opinion on the G System and to see your new rig.

Johnnyurq-fgn

Quote from:  vanceg on March 18, 2010, 09:04:11 PM
Hey Jonny - Is that your Les Paul Recording?  I'd love to see a larger picture of it!  I've got one too - and mine is the only one I've ever seen in person. I wish I had the Bass version too - there is a great video of Tina Wymouth from the Talking Heads playing one in 79 in italy.... Love those instruments...though they way FAR too much for me to actually use it now.....

Hi Vance,

Finally remembered/got around to getting a few pics of the LPR for you.

It is a 1971 or 1972 although according to Rosetti (Ex UK dealers etc for Gibson) most likely a 1971.

The LPR has been well gigged and used over the years as its battle scars will attest.

I have loads of info on the LPR and there are a few specialist websites that have excellent resources on LPR's and the Personals/Professionals too.

If you want them I can dig out the bookmarks etc.


Cheers

Johnny

Elantric-fgn

#48
I used to have a "Flexdisc" 33 1/3rpm Demo recording that Gibson placed in the 1974 era Guitar player magazine


BTW - this is a cool site for these guitars: 
http://www.ntw.net/~w0ui/family_webpage/linkpages/music/music_lespaulrecording.htm

. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

Johnnyurq-fgn

I had that flexdisc too but lost it in a house move in the late 80's. :(

+1 on that site it is excellent.