SY-1000- GK 3-way switch question

Started by stub, April 11, 2021, 12:09:58 PM

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stub

I can't get the MAGS/MIX/GK switch to work. In MAGS (Gtr/Bass) position, there is no sound-- even though I see it on the meters of the SY-1000.

I know I can set up patches so that I can combine models with mags, and use the switch to choose between mags, models and mix; and use the GK knob and bass knobs to balance levels of each on the bass (without touching the SY-1000).

I'm sure this is something I've not set correctly. I just can't figure it out on my own.

admin

#1
Read the SY-1000 faq

Start with patches that have NORMAL PU activated
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=26924.0

More here


On SY-1000 , there is a "MANUAL  MODE", which remaps the lower Row of 4 Foot switches as: (L-R)

1 INST 1 ( on/off)
2 INST 2 ( on/off)
3 INST 3 ( on/off)
4 NORMAL GUITAR  ( on/off)


This Manual mode becomes a powerful live performance tool.
Many factory patches have a full Normal Guitar signal path with GT-1000 class fx and Amp Cab Modeling, so i can turn off INST1-INST3, and just use the Normal Guitar signal path for my basic sound. Then I can dynamically mid song add in the INST1 , INST2, INST3 blocks  - like toggling on/off more effects as needed. Its a powerful tool, and 32 bit Audio I/O shines with depth

( see the SY-1000 Factory GUITAR  / BASS Patch Sound List  list here )
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=26924.msg199226#msg199226

stub

#2
Quote from: admin on April 11, 2021, 12:43:24 PM
All factory patches disable the GK-3 Three way "Guitar/Mix/Synth" switch.

OH RIGHT, I REMEMBER NOW!

It's not that the SY-1000 disables the 3-way switch.

There are two parts to this issue:

First, on the GK module that 3-way switch kills the synth out by temporarily overriding the GK volume knob with a zero value. So when you switch to the mags-only (BASS/GTR) the 'knob' value the SY-1000 sees is zero (regardless of the actual knob setting).

Second, the SY-1000 has a default CONTROL FUNCTION (on a patch basis) that assigns that GK volume knob to control the entire patch volume. Thus, when you flip the switch to BASS/GTR (mags) this thereby silences the whole patch. The normal signal is in fact being sent through, but because the patch level is zeroed out, you just can't hear that it is working.

I get why they did that. The goal was to allow you to control the entire patch volume with that knob-- which might be desirable in some use cases. But it is a source of immediate confusion for some of us.

In order to get the complete mixing capability (independent level controls on the guitar/bass), here's what I did:
1. I went to the SYSTEM/CONTROL FUNCTION/ and paged over to the where the column labeled "GK VOL" is and set that to SYSTEM (so it overrides what is set in the patches). I'll probably fix this in my patches so that I can use that GK volume on a patch-by-patch basis)

2. I set the FUNCTION to INST ALL LEVEL, so it will now adjust all three instruments at once (models/synths). If inside INST 1, 2, or 3 you have the normal pickup enabled and coming through there, this control will turn that down, as well.

3. I turned on the NORMAL INPUT module on the FX page- this is what will continue to be heard when INST ALL LEVEL is turned down via the GK vol knob.

As I'm setting up my customized "init/default/template" I want to make sure I get all these ducks in a row. I also need to organize all my notes!!

NOTE: thanks for moving this to the proper location.


stub

IIRC, it's a good idea to make sure the knob is all the way up before you switch it off or change the function. The SY-1000 will remember and stick it's last known value. (Wait, now I vaguely recall there's a setting that affects this as well, but I don't remember what/where it is)

gumtown

Quote from: stub on May 23, 2021, 08:29:50 AM
IIRC, it's a good idea to make sure the knob is all the way up before you switch it off or change the function. The SY-1000 will remember and stick it's last known value. (Wait, now I vaguely recall there's a setting that affects this as well, but I don't remember what/where it is)

"Assign Hold" is the name of the function which carries the Knob/EXP pedal position to the next patch when enabled.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

stub

A few other notes:

When the 3-way switch is in the GK position, it kills the normal guitar feed.

For the GK-3 and GK-3B, on the 13-pin cable, pin 9 carries a control voltage that reflects the state of the 3-way switch. However, the SY-1000 does not appear to do anything with this feature-- it may send some MIDI CC#7 values, but this needs to be tested.


admin

#7
Quote from: Frank on January 29, 2020, 05:29:57 AMBut can you have both the GK and 1/4 inch inputs active simultaneously?

For 1/4" Normal Input Synth Factory Patches
 Start at P48-1 thru P50-4-  look for patches that are named "NOR: xxxx"


Connect your GK guitar, move the three way switch to "Guitar" and the patches below will work- review their settings to create new user patches where all three position of GK-3 three way switch can become functional
 
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/SY-1000_soundlist_eng01_W.pdf


anytime the 1/4" input is occupied  - it removes the Normal Guitar input signal from the GK 13 pin input


and

Search on "NORMAL" in the Reference Manual
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/SY-1000_reference_eng01_W.pdf
See Page 13
NORMAL PATCH - Patches for a conventional guitar (bass) that is connected to the GUITAR INPUT. These can be used even if you don't have a divided pickup. You can also use these patches with the conventional guitar (bass) signal (normal pickup) that is routed through the GK-3  divided pickup. If you're using Normal patch, the GK icon goes dark.
* DYNAMIC SYNTH is the only INST TYPE that can be selected for normal patches.



DYNAMIC Synth String Pan / Level

DYNAMIC Synth User Alt Tuning and User Pitch Bend Range


DYNAMIC Synth - OSC TYPES


DYNAMIC Synth with Two User Assignable Arpeggiator Sequencers


DYNAMIC Synth Layer Note Range Assignment




abbaby

Is the assignment of normal guitar pickups available on the SY-1000 machine itself as well as in Tone Control Studio?

stub

Yes, but while you probably expect it to be on the left side of the signal path it's all the way on the right side.

It's in the MASTER BLOCK, and it's called Patch Type.

BobOD

Thought I'd add a bit more detail here as I was having this issues as well with a new Godin XTSA and the SY-1000. To make the 3-way switch and the two different volume controls work as I expected (and, I'm sure, many others) on all patches, you just need to switch the GK Vol button to InstAllLevel and set the preference to System and voila. Using only the GK13 cable, the three-way switch switches from synth only to synth/guitar mix to guitar only and the synth volume only controls the synth, the guitar volume controls the Seymoue Duncans, and the Piezo slider controls the piezo pickup. To be clear, you have to turn on the normal input on any given patch to hear any guitar sound, but now I can mix whatever combination of pickups and synth sounds I want, just as I expected to be able to from the get go!

For the record, I ended up doing this directly on the SY1000 because for some reason SY-1000 Tone Editor had greyed out the Ctl/Exp button (though I now see it is available...weird bug, maybe?). Anyway, to get there, hit the Ctl hardware button, then Control Function soft button, scroll to the second page and adjust Knob 4. One tricky part is that to get down to the third row where the Preference setting is, you need to push down Knob 1 and then scroll down, then adjust Knob 4.

Hope others find this helpful. Had been driving me crazy!

kiwiaxe

#11
Hello all - new user and owner of SY1000 here, having upgraded from my GC1 & GR55 combo.

Thanks already for the guide to setting GK Vol to INST all levels.  Now I can put my GC1 3-way switch into "guitar" and use mags+synth by itself, or into middle (mix) and get guitar and INST (the INST controllable by my GK Vol knob).  But no matter what I try, my main guitar volume knob seems to adjust the overall volume - mags plus synth - and my "synth only" position on the 3-way switch gives me silence.

Am I doing something wrong on the SY1000?  Is this unavoidable on my GC1 (albeit different to my GR55)?  Does it sound like a hardware issue (notwithstanding that it all works fine on my GR55)?

Thanks in advance!

EDIT:
I decided to reply to myself.  Not because I need better company, but because someone else might encounter the same issue, see my message and save themselves some heartache.

I hadn't realised that the "NOR" patches from presets 48 onwards don't actually use the synth pickup.  They must use the mag pickup only.  Once I went to the pre-48 presets and turned on normal then everything worked (after changing system GK-VOL to INST ALL as per above).

ILIADE

Quote from: gumtown on May 23, 2021, 01:58:20 PM"Assign Hold" is the name of the function which carries the Knob/EXP pedal position to the next patch when enabled.
Ahhhhhh, you just made my day! Thanks, it is finally solving the issue I was having. Thanks!