Cycfi/ATG/GK Install

Started by cags12, June 03, 2018, 11:56:42 AM

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cags12

Well guys I finally got the chance to post my first GK guitar. It is more than a GK guitar as it also has an Antares ATG system and Cycfi electronics.

I really do not know where would be the best place to post this within the Forum :). Perhaps it should be references on the GK, Cycfi and Antares section??.

Anyway..

I installed all of it on a Peavey AT-200 Guitar that I use as a Lab guitar. It is very handy as it has a big pre-routed cavity. In a later stage I might consider moving the electronics to a nicer guitar.

The guitar has installed 4 sets of Hex pickups.
1- Cycfi Nu's: currently driving the Cycfi GK 13-Pin Adaptor and my GP-10
2- Shadow Hex pickup: used to drive the ATG system
3- Roland GK-3: currently disconnected but will be used to test the GK-3 Kit at a later date.
4- Graph Tech Ghost piezo pickups: Currently disconnected and will be used to test different piezo preamps.

The regular magnetic signal is picked up by Cycfi XR pickups, then it goes through Cycfi's toggle Hub -> Freeway Switch -> Cycfi resonant filter and Q -> Tone Pot (toggle ATG/Cycfi) and finally Vol Pot and 9-Pin Stereo Jack. Mixing high Z Vol and Tone Pot does not seem to have any drastic effect.

ATG uses the Freeway switch to access all the models. I installed the Quicco Sound mi.1 internally for wireless midi and swapped the normal stereo Jack with a 9-Pin Stereo jack that allows me to switch on/off all the systems with the cable and at the same time allows me to provide power via a Stereo cable to ATG only. Ahh, the jack also allows me to use a Line 6 GT-10 wireless without any issue.
For the moment ATG does not have any internal battery and I sometimes use a portable power back that connects with a USB cable as seen on one of the pictures. I plan to install an internal Lithium battery.

The GK part which is provided by the Cycfi Nu's and Cycfi's 13-Pin Adaptor, does not interface (yet) with the audio coming from ATG or XR pickups. The S1/S2 switch is installed on the side of the guitar and there is no Synth Vol present.

Thankfully everything works correctly altogether after a lot of test and troubleshooting. The cavity is a mess but all fits fine.
There is only one thing that needs improvement but I'm exhausted at the moment so I will leave it for later. When I toggle down the tone, ATG's power turns ON while XR's battery turns OFF, when toggle UP XR's battery turns ON. This causes a nasty audio pop as the Active preamps switch ON. This is annoying but not the biggest deal.

This guitar as is no surprise, is the ultimate in versatility. All components allow multitude of sounds and choices.
I am just discovering the wonders of the GP-10 for the first time. Ah, I also have the Primova MIDX-20 connected with the GP-10 and a Widi-Bud attached to control ATG wirelessly.

And that's it. Thanks to this forum I have learned a lot enabling me to do this. I must accept that I enjoy more doing these installs than actually playing music. What's wrong with me?












admin

Excellent work

Happy we could share the knowledge on how to assist you in build details

Majiken

Congrats!  I'd love to see some pics and maybe get some details regarding where you placed the various hex PUs in regard to the bridge- what are their exact distances, which is closer to the bridge and why did you put it there (as long as it works, that's fine).

I'd love to see your wiring plan.  Is there an idea to use the Ghost piezos for a separate "acoustic" mono signal, like the LGX-T?  I'd like to understand the Quicco Sound mi.1 and 9-Pin stereo jack (!) better....
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

mooncaine

So intrigued that I am eager to see photos! Sounds like a fun setup.

Majiken

Sorry, I can't see the pics..... ???
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

BladesToyShop

Pictures aren't showing for me either.

BladesToyShop

That's one stuffed electronics cavity... Wow and it makes what I'm doing with mine seem tame by comparison.

djowel

Amazing work! Look at all that electronics! I think I you convinced me to make the 13-pin adaptor standard. That is looking really good!

cags12

Quote from: Majiken on June 03, 2018, 02:20:55 PM
Congrats!  I'd love to see some pics and maybe get some details regarding where you placed the various hex PUs in regard to the bridge- what are their exact distances, which is closer to the bridge and why did you put it there (as long as it works, that's fine).

I'd love to see your wiring plan.  Is there an idea to use the Ghost piezos for a separate "acoustic" mono signal, like the LGX-T?  I'd like to understand the Quicco Sound mi.1 and 9-Pin stereo jack (!) better....

Majiken - It's a bit late in Europe (for both of us), tomorrow we can share those details.

cags12

Quote from: BladesToyShop on June 03, 2018, 04:40:17 PM
That's one stuffed electronics cavity... Wow and it makes what I'm doing with mine seem tame by comparison.

I wanted to have a super versatile install but clean at the same time on the external side. The internals is super stuffed yeah! If I could I would add more things but I think that would be just overkill. Who know, maybe if I am bored I will :)

The reason I incorporated a Freeway switch (apart from its obvious benefits) was to make more space as its footprint is very small. That allowed me to make the wholes for the Cycfi resonant filter. The BLE MIDI mi.1 also takes considerable real estate. I might go a head and disassemble it to reduce its size if I ever need those square millimeters..

cags12

#10
Quote from: djowel on June 03, 2018, 04:52:53 PM
Amazing work! Look at all that electronics! I think I you convinced me to make the 13-pin adaptor standard. That is looking really good!

Thanks Joel. Go Go ahead :)
I will be a Cycfi ambassador as well as other members in the forum already are.

mooncaine

Quote from:  admin
Log in and already
Well, yeah, I imagined you'd say that, so I cleared my cache, quit my browser and came back, logged in, and confirmed that I didn't see pictures before I spoke up.

mooncaine

Maybe I just tried to read the thread before the pics were finished processing & ready on the server side.

mooncaine

Quote from: djowel on June 03, 2018, 04:52:53 PM
Amazing work! Look at all that electronics! I think I you convinced me to make the 13-pin adaptor standard. That is looking really good!

I'm still interested. I have a couple beloved guitars with very little space and a narrow string spacing.



Majiken

I can see the pics now, nice clean install on the front, very pretty!
Awhile back I contacted Joel about hex and the Nu's, got a negative response, looks like he's rethinking that. I'd love to read a comparison on the performance of the Nu's vs. GK-3 (best with wax potting); on this guitar they look to be a good 35mm away from the bridge- if the tracking stays good that would be very encouraging!

Iwonder how the Nu's would perform with the ATG?
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

cags12

Quote from: Majiken on June 04, 2018, 03:15:15 AM
I can see the pics now, nice clean install on the front, very pretty!
Awhile back I contacted Joel about hex and the Nu's, got a negative response, looks like he's rethinking that. I'd love to read a comparison on the performance of the Nu's vs. GK-3 (best with wax potting); on this guitar they look to be a good 35mm away from the bridge- if the tracking stays good that would be very encouraging!

Joel just yesterday released the NU's v2. So it is a good time to get some of their pickups.
http://www.cycfi.com/projects/nu-series/nu-capsule-v2/

I am yet to thoroughly test the Nu's for MIDI tracking, however alt tuning and models do sound great with no obvious warbling. ONn the following weeks I will be testing them even more.

Quote
Iwonder how the Nu's would perform with the ATG?

This is one of my next steps. I also got the Cycfi breakout board so I am working on creating the connections so I can interface the NU's with ATG. Since they are active pickups with its own connectors. Is not as much straight forward to interconnect with ATG.

cags12

#16
Quote from: Majiken on June 03, 2018, 02:20:55 PM
I'd love to see your wiring plan. 
I'd like to understand the Quicco Sound mi.1 and 9-Pin stereo jack (!) better....
Regarding the mi.1, see this post where I explained all behind it. Basically it will allow you have Wireless MIDI to ATG. However, in this specific build I wired things like in the image attached so I can use the Quiccosounf mi.1 or the 9-Pin DIN MIDI if needed.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=21951.0


On the 9-Pin/Lug Jack, the post below explains a bit how I am using it. It basically allows you to move the ON/OFF functionality away from the Ring of the jack to an isolated switch (there is actually two isolated switches built in). Why? well you can use the Ring now for stereo output or use it as phantom power. It is also a workaround for a limitation of the Line 6 Relay GT-10 with ATG.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=21555.msg155429#msg155429





GuitarBuilder

Are you using a Zener diode in the external 9V line?
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

cags12

Quote from: GuitarBuilder on June 05, 2018, 09:57:13 AM
Are you using a Zener diode in the external 9V line?

Oh right, the Diode is not currently installed but it is planned. Not a Zener but a Schottky. This is to prevent a short circuit when using the DIN 9-Pin with power coming from the AT-200B and a Plug is inserted by mistake on the Stereo Jack. Does it make sense? Do you see a better way to do this?

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: cags12 on June 05, 2018, 10:35:43 AM
Oh right, the Diode is not currently installed but it is planned. Not a Zener but a Schottky. This is to prevent a short circuit when using the DIN 9-Pin with power coming from the AT-200B and a Plug is inserted by mistake on the Stereo Jack. Does it make sense? Do you see a better way to do this?

Yes, makes sense.  I used a simple fast switching diode for the same purpose in my ATG guitar; you want the lowest forward voltage drop possible.  Other than that, the reverse breakdown voltage should be >> 9V.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

cags12

Quote from: GuitarBuilder on June 05, 2018, 10:51:07 AM
Yes, makes sense.  I used a simple fast switching diode for the same purpose in my ATG guitar; you want the lowest forward voltage drop possible.  Other than that, the reverse breakdown voltage should be >> 9V.

Any specific reason for choosing a fast switching diode or it was simply what you had available?

I am indeed looking for a Schottky to reduce the forward voltage drop.

I am considering using USB 5V power instead of 9V and the less the voltage drop the better. That pluse the voltage drop of the cable could cause the system to not come up at all. I read that with a transistor the voltage drop can be avoided completely.

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: cags12 on June 05, 2018, 03:01:07 PM
Any specific reason for choosing a fast switching diode or it was simply what you had available?

I am indeed looking for a Schottky to reduce the forward voltage drop.

I am considering using USB 5V power instead of 9V and the less the voltage drop the better. That pluse the voltage drop of the cable could cause the system to not come up at all. I read that with a transistor the voltage drop can be avoided completely.

I used a 9V battery, so that worked out well.  I suspect you will have problems when using 5V with the diode.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

mapletop

wow thats the best install of all .everything looks stock .man you must be really good at guitar electronics is all i can say.do you do this professionally?if not you should

jodama

I've been running the same Cycfi setup for a while now (Nu-XR combo to 13 pin adapter). I thought I was the only one on Earth with that particular set up. It seemed like the other Cycfi users were going through the Nexus box for GK conversion. I no longer feel special, but it's nice to see my familiar configuration on another guitar.

I had my installation done by a professional luthier (a well respected one with extensive GK expierience) and your's is just as clean, if not cleaner. Well done...

80Hz

Wow impressive!  do you do this work for others?  I'd be willing to send you some guitars for modding.  I'd like to take the guts of a Peavey AT-200 (add a 13 pin out)  and have the autotune inline before a 13 pin out.   So all signal sent to my GR-55 is perfectly in tune.  I'm surprised Roland never partnered with Antares to add that capability to the GR-55.