Antares is discontinuing all Auto-Tune for Guitar products.

Started by cags12, August 01, 2017, 05:03:32 AM

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Rhcole

AI is one of the greatest opportunities and biggest threats to humanity ever created.
But then, that's a different story...  ;)

vanceg

Quote from: cags12 on August 01, 2017, 08:48:49 AM
You beat me to it. Totally agree.

The phrase "Autotune for Guitar" is seriously problematic from a marketing standpoint. 

vanceg

Quote from: Rhcole on August 01, 2017, 05:44:25 PM
Boss created the domino effect by ceasing 13 pin development OVER THREE YEARS AGO. Spicetone with 100 or so units sold is beyond being a niche player, they don't even register.
As others have said, I take no joy in this- BUT, the future of non-hex DOES look bright.

Where did you hear that they stopped all development on 13 pin products?  That's not at all what I understand.

vanceg

Quote from: Rhcole on August 01, 2017, 08:51:04 PM
Sure, Line 6 is soldiering on. It's got its audience.
The Strandberg guitar was announced in January. I have yet to see one for sale anywhere.

Look, seriously, eventually DSP technology will be so capable that guitar players will forget hex ever existed. I don't mean to piss my online friends off here, but it is going to happen. Five years, ten years from now, who knows? The holy grail of alt-tunings will get solved, I worked on a secret project last year that could have done it. Company didn't get funded but I had a chance to talk off-the-record with many of your favorite guitar tech companies. If there was higher demand from guitar players I think it might have already happened.

The things we complain about- bad pitch shifts, dirty and low-fi quality audio, these can all get handled. Now, I'm gitten' old, so I accept some of this may happen outside of my time. Thing is, when I get too fussy about all of this, I play my Telecaster through a decent amp and enjoy 1950's quality sounds.

Good is good no matter when it's good. I LIKE how the SY-300 and Mel9 sound together. The GP-10 is also great.
I want more but I love what I have.


I ABSOLUTELY disagree.  Hex processing time is very near.  It hasn't even STARTED in full effect yet.  The new DSP power that we have available to us will be used to multiply out the monophonic signal processing we have now 6 times so that it can be applied to each string. 

While it's possible to do some really cool processing by partially "disassembling" a monophonic signal containing all 6 strings (as the SY-300 shows us) there are a lot of processes that using a monophonic signal makes NO sense for.   Alternate tunings and Harmonization (of more than one string at a time) are two that pop to mind.  Maybe someday we will be able to create alternate tunings from a monophonic signal, but why?  It's EASIER to develop a product to do that which uses hex processing.  It's less expensive, it's going to sound better.  it just makes SENSE to use hex processing.

Yep, I totally agree that there is a huge uphill battle getting general acceptance of hex pickups.  I don't think they every will be universally used.  But I think we need to be working on helping people integrate hex processing into their existing rigs.  Use hex for what it's best at. 

I totally agree with you that signal processing is getting much better and SOME processing can be done on monophonic signals.  But things like multiple tunings, harmonization of multiple strings, and even things like individual string compression, volume swells or panning is MUCH easier to do using hex processing than it would be using a monophonic input, dissecting the signal with heavy-duty dsp, and the precessing it.   From a product development standpoint, I would like to spend my signal processing power on the effects, rather than on some algorithm that tries to disassemble a monophonic signal into it'

vanceg

Quote from: sixeight on August 02, 2017, 11:06:33 AM
Melodyne has been able to do this since 2008, though it is not real time. But with increased processing speed it might be possible...



Check the demo from 4:20 onwards. It is just scary. Now if someone can build this into a hardware pedal, so we can do it real-time, that would be mind blowing and then hex processing can pass away...

Yes, it's possible. It does NOT sound like processing individual signals and, while possible, is MUCH more difficult than processing monophonic signals.   Easiest method wins!  That's my assertion ;-)

Elantric

Quote from: vanceg on August 03, 2017, 06:39:28 PM
Where did you hear that they stopped all development on 13 pin products?  That's not at all what I understand.

Same response here - AFAIK with my talks with Mr. Yoshihiro Ikegami ( Roland / Boss Guitar Product manager) Boss R&D in Japan are still working on the evolution of GK 13 pin products  - its development is far from over.

Just because the Boss SY-300 was released in 2015, does not mean they killed the GR-55, GP-10  - both remain strong sellers and profitable to Roland Corp.

Its true that December 31, 2015 was the end of the line for many high tech Fender Guitars: They ceased production of :

* Fender / Roland G5 Strat ( VG-Strat) ,

* Fender Roland / GC-1 Strat ( Roland 13 pin Strat )

* - and they also ceased production of the Fender / Fishman Tripleplay Strat. (luckily I purchased two when they were still available



( DIY Alert:- StratoSphere is selling gutted 2014 Fender Roland G5 bodies for $169  - makes a good platform for an Antares internal Luthier Kit High tech Guitar )
https://stratosphereparts.com/fender-roland-g-5-vg-stratocaster-strat-body-with-routing-rare-black-912/




I understand it was a Fender management  decision to re-focus the Fender Guitar product line for 2016 with more traditional ( profitable) models   
( only the Fender Deluxe Stratocaster HSS Plus Top Electric Guitar with iOS Connectivity remains)
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Fender/Deluxe-Stratocaster-HSS-Plus-Top-Electric-Guitar-with-iOS-Connectivity-Aged-Cherry-Sunburst-1394464448425.gc

Here in USA, many tend to think that the only production guitar with a Gk 13 pin output jack was the Fender  / Roland GC-1 (Roland Ready) Strat, but thats ignoring the other GK 13 pin guitars :



find more GK Guitars here:


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19.0
 

Rhcole

OK, but FWIW, when I was talking with vendors last year THEY were themselves of the opinion that Roland had dropped 13 pin. If it is actually only a rumor, it is well-circulated.

Elantric

Quote from: Rhcole on August 03, 2017, 09:25:21 PM
OK, but FWIW, when I was talking with vendors last year THEY were themselves of the opinion that Roland had dropped 13 pin. If it is actually only a rumor, it is well-circulated.

There is profit in confusion

Rumors of Roland / Boss  GK -13 pin demise are exaggerated

Its True future development new  Roland  branded GK Guitar products ceased in 2014
Those "asleep at the wheel" missed the 2014 Roland Corp financial page announcement that Roland Corp decided that  among Guitarists the "Boss" brand has far more positive brand recognition as a Guitar product supplier  - so since 2014 all future GK products will be branded "Boss" - not "Roland"   

here's a tip: When Roland / Boss products are discontinued  you will see "No Longer Available"  at Sweetwater 

Like this

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=StratGK3SB


Notice the Roland GR-55 remains a very strong seller in the Guitar Synth market - followed by the Boss GP-10   - these remain popular - with a major effort earlier this year by Roland /Boss to resolve bugs with the Boss Tone Studio for GP-10  - they dont do that for a product about to be discontinued   

Likewise the 2007 VG-99 / VB-99 (still the flagships) continue to get attention from the Roland R&D lab  - with ongoing support of new updated USB drivers for all current versions of Windows 10 and macOS Sierra

same with confirmed support for VG-99 / VB-99 with Windows 10 Creators update   

Rhcole

And it IS possible that some of the vendors I was in meetings with last year might have had their own reasons for wanting to believe that Roland was abandoning the market.

STILL, no new products in over 3 years breaks a pattern of consistent 13 pin releases from at least the VG-99 through GP-10. I don't remember the lag between the earlier 13 pin products, I jumped on board with the GR-33 and wasn't paying attention to early VG releases.

Elantric

Quote from: Rhcole on August 03, 2017, 11:20:56 PM

STILL, no new products in over 3 years breaks a pattern of consistent 13 pin releases from at least the VG-99 through GP-10. I don't remember the lag between the earlier 13 pin products, I jumped on board with the GR-33 and wasn't paying attention to early VG releases.

Its Roland   = 3 years is a brief period of time for Roland VGuitar / Guitar Synth world - Ive followed them since 1978, and I'm used to an average  5-7 year product hardware refresh cycle  -

http://www.soundonsound.com/music-business/history-roland-part-4
http://www.soundonsound.com/history-of-roland-part5




Thus the 1995 Roland VG-8 VGuitar system (hint this had Guitar modeling  / Alt Tunings/ AutoTune/ Amp Modeling  / Cab Sims

A  year before the Line-6 AXSys
http://www.soundonsound.com/people/line-6-inside-tone-modelling-factory


2000 VG-88 "VGuitar system


2007 VG-99 "VGuitar system
http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/roland-vg99




and 2014 Boss  GP-10 VGuitar system


Which means the 2020-2022 Boss GP-30 is still in R&D

vanceg

Speak, oh ye Keeper of the history!



Quote from: Elantric on August 03, 2017, 11:29:30 PM
Its Roland   = 3 years is a brief period of time for Roland VGuitar / Guitar Synth world - Ive followed them since 1978, and I'm used to an average  5-7 year product hardware refresh cycle  -

http://www.soundonsound.com/music-business/history-roland-part-4
http://www.soundonsound.com/history-of-roland-part5




Thus the 1995 Roland VG-8 VGuitar system (hint this had Guitar modeling  / Alt Tunings/ AutoTune/ Amp Modeling  / Cab Sims

A  year before the Line-6 AXSys
http://www.soundonsound.com/people/line-6-inside-tone-modelling-factory


2000 VG-88 "VGuitar system


2007 VG-99 "VGuitar system
http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/roland-vg99




and 2014 Boss  GP-10 VGuitar system


Which means the 2020-2022 Boss GP-30 is still in R&D

Elantric

Quote from:  sec6
Since 1992, 25 years ago, there have been 14 13-pin guitar synth/vguitar products.  That equals a new product on average every 1.8 years.

I place the VGuitar products in a separate category  - these have very low latency, unlike the other GR boxes (excluding the GR-55 which is a jack of all trades, but still sluggish to use live)


http://www.soundonsound.com/music-business/history-roland-part-4
http://www.soundonsound.com/history-of-roland-part5