GR-55 -Guitar Out -- Sucks Guitar Tone, why? How to fix?

Started by adagosto, August 04, 2015, 11:09:02 AM

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Elantric and all,

You actually gave me a new thought.  In my last setup, I was running the PCMs and Model through the AMP and MOD blocks and the Pickups through the MFX block.  The AMP model was a clean tone and the MFX amp simulator was a dirty high distortion tone.  We used this in rehearsal today and that flopped.  Just could not get a good tone on the dirty side of the house.

So, I flipped it around.  Now I'm running the PCMs and Model through the MFX block and the Pickups into the AMP and MOD blocks.  I'll use the MFX amp simulator to simulate a clean tone and the Amp model will be the BG Lead which we know works well from experience.  I think this will be a better setup.  I'll have to wait til next Saturday to find out.

That all said, your Three-Bank setup described above would certainly work, but the problem I have with that is the delay from one Patch to another.  When they play Everlong he's got to go from clean to dirty fast.  I think I should be ok with what I've setup now.  Just have to see (hear).


Quote, but the problem I have with that is the delay from one Patch to another. 

True and for me this prevents me from using the GR-55 as my only Guitar processor at live gigs

I get more use with the Boss GP-10 - which has instant patch changes


Do you run the GR-55 and the GP-10 together on stage?  Does one run out of the other or do you use them independently?

I have read many threads in this forum about the GR-55 vs GP-10, but it seems to me there is no one single midi tool that gives you the best of the GR-55 and the best guitar tone and guitar tone options under one hood. 

This two cable panning method is great, but it's still frustrating.  For three or four hundred dollars I don't think I should complain too much.  But at $700.00....  Ok now I'm complaining...sorry.  I'm done now.

I'd like to know how you use the GP-10 and if you use it with the 55 or not.



QuoteI'd like to know how you use the GP-10 and if you use it with the 55 or note

I use the GP-10 + Fishman Tripleplay far more than the GR-55.

The GR-55 is a Jack of trades, master of none - too many compromises with only one CTRL pedal and one Expression pedal

By Contrast my GP-10 + EV-5 I have two Expression pedals and two CTL pedals for every patch, and and there are zero audio drop outs during any patch change.  Can't do any of that with the GR-55 

most of time I use the 13 pin guitars for Guitar Modeling  / Alt Tuning.

Ive had too many occasions where the crowd leaves and the band never gets rehired when the Guitarist is playing Trumpet  / Accordian sounds Synths most of the night, and the audience cant connect with the musicians on stage because they cant  determine that these sounds are being played "Live". If their "Karaoke detector" kicks in, the crowd leaves.   Most gigs I put on a good show and capture the crowd using just my fingers and carefully placed notes, and well rehearsed band.  Musicianship trumps Guitar Synths everytime.

read "The Audience Listens with their eyes"


Quote from: Elantric on August 17, 2015, 10:40:11 AM
The Audience Listens with their eyes"
Agree, I however find GR-55 perfect for additional texture and background fillers to the GP-10 guitar sounds when accompanying. People don't need to think, it just sounds fat. For solos I turn it off and only let the GP-10 alone do the talk. I don't have FTP but I guess I would probably use it the same way. I used to do a sax solo using the GR-55 in Thin Lizzy "Dancing in the moonlight", sounded so close to the real thing, but parts of the audience always looked confused. Didn't feel right.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!


WOW!!  I could not agree more.  Excellent point about the crowd and the disconnect in playing horns for instance through a guitar.  Many people would have no clue where that sound is coming from!!

I clearly see this as a problem, however, like you said, there are ways of dealing with that on stage.  Also, using the synth tones sparingly is important too.  In my sons' band case, they will use it in about 15% of the songs I'd say, maybe 2 in 10 songs.

My biggest problem will be ensuring I can get really good tone out of the guitar for the high gain sounds while at the same time having access to all the synth tones.  You guys have really helped me get the tone selection issues resolved here in this forum (the use of the CTL foot switch and and S1/S2 switch logic).  This is great and I think will cover all our needs.  Again the problem I'll have is guitar tone.  These kids are tone snobs already!!!  But if they want to play Santana's Smooth or Jesus of Suburbia, they are going to probably have to accept some less than perfect issues.

Again, thanks for the help with all this.  I would actually like to create a two-cable panning patch guide and post it.  Sure might help someone else get there quickly.


For what it's worth....

You may recall I had made some complaints about guitar tone when using the two cable OUTPUT pan LEFT/pan RIGHT method.  NOTE: this is NOT the method used in the title of this thread!

Anyway, I had reported that the guitar tone seemed thin and lacked "balls" when using the two cable OUTPUT pan LEFT/pan RIGHT method.  I thought the guitar tone was particularly affected on high gain settings with lots of distortion.

Here's my update...

User error.

I got to playing around with it in more detail last night.  Not only was I able to get the tone "just right" but after getting where I thought it was as good as I could get it, I then bypassed the entire GR-55 and went out of the guitar 1/4" and directly into the amp.  There was almost no discernible change in tone.  If you studied the sound, yes there's a difference, but it was very subtle and NO WOULD NOTICE this in a gig.

So I'm pretty happy with that!!!



Quote from: adagosto on August 04, 2015, 11:09:02 AMWhen I use the "Guitar Out" an connect that to the "Guitar In" on my amp, the Normal Pickup tone is very thin and lacks a significant amount of "tone".  It sounds shallow and almost tinny and lacks all the low end.

I tried connecting the GK-55 Guitar Out into my pedal board as well as directly into the amp with no change in tone.  I did make sure I was actually hearing the Normal Pickups and not the modeled guitar tone.  When I added the modeled sound it actually sounded much better, but nothing like when I plug the guitar directly into the amp.

Is this something that can be fixed/controlled/improved??  Or is this kinda normal for the GK-55.

Old thread, but I've just been looking at schematics.
1. The input impedance on the GK3 "guitar in" jack is 470K - this can suck tone dependent on your pickups.
2. The "guitar out" from the GR55 signal path: Pickups -> GK3 "guitar in" -> buffer -> pin 7 on GK cable -> buffer -> ADC -> DSP -> DAC -> GR55 "guitar out".  Elantric has already pointed this out.
3. For those running a "dry guitar out" loop which hijacks the pin 7 signal, the input buffer for on the GR55 only has a 100K impedance as it expects an active signal.

Potential solutions:
1. Open up the GK3 box and change a 470K resistor to 1M or above.
2. Not alterable.
3. Install a simple buffer after the input jack and run it off the +/-7V rails, or change the 100K resistor up on the GR55 mainboard.


Yes, swapping the surface mount GK3 470k resistor to 1Meg is probably the best solution. In an ideal GK3 P7 input circuit a 5M-10M pot/preset would find the sweet impedance spot, but that's costly and impractical. The case for a external GR55 input buffer is a good one, And it would be great to switch between three normal P7 input guitars in a pedal ;D


GKP-2 parallel P7 switcher.
14dB EMI/RF improvement over a GK3 P7 input. A normal guitar buffer op-amp +input is an antenna for EMI/RF, and Roland should have gone with a pressed-aluminium GK3 shielded enclosure...tut tut.

Basic P7 circuit with hi-end op-amp OPA1656.
Best placed in a diecast screened case using battery power. A GR55 +/-7VDC is a second choice, but adds 2-3dB mains psu ripple.