ROLAND - Internal GK-KIT-GT3 Installation questions

Started by chipstar, January 30, 2008, 01:40:21 PM

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gumtown

Quote from: philjynx on September 05, 2021, 12:12:53 PM
Mae fy ngwraig yn ddafad hardd. Prettier na'r girfriend awstralaidd a gefais unwaith.
Hahaha !! that is funny  ;D Sounds like you are happy
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Unlimbo

Hi Peter, you've actually cleared up quite a lot on what's been a long running puzzle for me. I always believed that because Roland put the warning on the GK internal installation instructions that the guitar signal connection cable should not exceed 12v that the voltage used by the EMG's was transferred down the signal cable. The fact you've brought to light that the EMG's only utilise the voltage to create the signal makes sense.
One final question though, if the ground wiring in the guitar is used by the EMG's to run the voltage from the battery(s) to the pups, is there any danger of that current entering the GK circuit?
Thanks for all your help on this one here, I was worried I would have to drop from 24v back down to 9v!
David  :)

Six string synths.

philjynx

#377
Quote from: Unlimbo on September 05, 2021, 03:29:40 PM
...
One final question though, if the ground wiring in the guitar is used by the EMG's to run the voltage from the battery(s) to the pups, is there any danger of that current entering the GK circuit?



None at all.
Assuming your gear is correctly wired, GK ground = guitar ground = AC mains ground. All have zero potential between them. That or you could well be needing an ambulance or an undertaker.


I converted a GK external to internal, with EMGs, so this isn't hair brained guess work - don't be fooled by my light hearted flipancy, I take safety seriously. Just prefer not to take life (or people) seriously.  ;D


BTW the GK doesn't run on 9volts. It's +7 ,0 and -7, three potentials.

philjynx

Totally off the topic rails, another response to Peter's rightly posted wrong Welsh sign post.
Us Welsh are having a bit of a downer on Alan (or so you might be excused for thinking). We have this sign at the exit of every car park.

philjynx

Quote from: gumbo on September 04, 2021, 06:00:09 PM
The GK board would get powered from the synth unit via the 13-pin cable....7  volts across pins 12 and 13..
A bit of belated Welsh pedantry for you Peter, it's 14 volts across pins 12 & 13....

admin

#380
Quote from: philjynx on May 01, 2022, 11:57:27 AM
A bit of belated Welsh pedantry for you Peter, it's 14 volts across pins 12 & 13....

If not referenced correctly that will damage the GK-3

And the pin 12 (+7VDC), and pin 13 (-7VDC) power is delivered by the connected GK Processor and referenced to the (sadly) only Ground on the GK cable, the large round DIN Shell
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=133.0;attach=16610

philjynx

Quote from: admin on May 01, 2022, 12:06:26 PM
.... referenced to the (sadly) only Ground on the GK cable, the large round DIN Shell...


Is there a compelling reason they didn't use +14v on just one pin which would have left a spare pin for a decently connected ground/earth? Very few devices have this ' + 0 -  ' arrangement on their corded supplies.

gumtown

Quote from: philjynx on May 01, 2022, 12:20:13 PM

Is there a compelling reason they didn't use +14v on just one pin which would have left a spare pin for a decently connected ground/earth? Very few devices have this ' + 0 -  ' arrangement on their corded supplies.
Yes, main reason to have a split power supply is when a device (GK guitar) is plugged in to the GK unit, with no 0 volt referenced supply, you end up with a massive D.C. offset voltage briefly at the GK audio outputs until the centered supply balances the voltages (+7~0 and 0~-7), which will result in a huge "POP" at you amp output.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

philjynx

They could have adopted the same 3 voltage signalling that the Guitar/Mix/Synth switch uses for S1 and S2 that would have freed up a pin for ground.

gumtown

Quote from: philjynx on May 01, 2022, 01:41:40 PM
They could have adopted the same 3 voltage signalling that the Guitar/Mix/Synth switch uses for S1 and S2 that would have freed up a pin for ground.

I am thankful we are still not using these
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

admin

#385
Quote from: gumtown on May 01, 2022, 01:52:39 PM
I am thankful we are still not using these


But if you are, 24 pin  resources are here

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=271.0

admin

#386
Quote from: philjynx on May 01, 2022, 01:41:40 PM
They could have adopted the same 3 voltage signalling that the Guitar/Mix/Synth switch uses for S1 and S2 that would have freed up a pin for ground.

Many did just that, in the pre GK-3 days

Details
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5259.0

Richard McClish laments this  pin #9 use in the old VG-8.com interview archived here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8187.0

philjynx

Quote from: gumtown on May 01, 2022, 01:52:39 PM
I am thankful we are still not using these



I'm already regretting removing the 25 pin arrangement I had! It suffered from being a proprietary system (me) with a supplier (me) who couldn't be arsed to make up the cables and adaptors.  :)

gumbo

Quote from: philjynx on May 02, 2022, 06:34:03 AM

I'm already regretting removing the 25 pin arrangement I had! It suffered from being a proprietary system (me) with a supplier (me) who couldn't be arsed to make up the cables and adaptors.  :)


Sorry...didn't know you then Phil...    ;D

Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

philjynx

#389
Quote from: gumtown on May 01, 2022, 12:58:46 PM
....... which will result in a huge "POP" at you amp output.


Exactly what used to happen if I powered up my Beringer  Uphoria after powering up the amp - a deafening thump.


It is now wired  with its own 5v supply, so on switching on my system, it is powered up before the relatively slow to come to life amp has got going.

No more thump.

gumtown

Worst device I have ever heard on power up was the Alesis Quadraverb,
it was like the D/A converter was directly connected to the CPU data bus, with a deafening digital hash noise for about 5 seconds after power on.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

admin

#391
Quote from: gumtown on May 08, 2022, 03:20:32 PM
Worst device I have ever heard on power up was the Alesis Quadraverb,
it was like the D/A converter was directly connected to the CPU data bus, with a deafening digital hash noise for about 5 seconds after power on.

That unit used an external 20 VAC adapter, and there was an internal charge pump circuit to convert incomming AC voltage into +/- 12VDC (for the analog) and +5VDC for the CPU

It took 6 seconds for the Power supply to fully charge its electrolytic caps and provide stable DC power

See page 75

https://manualzz.com/doc/4196935/alesis-quadraverb-ii-service-manual-v2.00-12-12-95

gumtown

Quote from: admin on May 08, 2022, 03:41:23 PM
That unit used an external 20 VAC adapter, and there was an internal charge pump circuit to convert incomming AC voltage into +/- 12VDC (for the analog) and +5VDC for the CPU

It took 6 seconds for the Power supply to fully charge its electrolytic caps and provide stable DC power

See page 75

https://manualzz.com/doc/4196935/alesis-quadraverb-ii-service-manual-v2.00-12-12-95

The one I had was the original Quadraverb from 1989, only thing the Quadaverb 2 had in common was only the name.
But it still ran from the same 20 V AC supply.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

gumbo

Quote from: gumtown on May 08, 2022, 03:20:32 PM
Worst device I have ever heard on power up was the Alesis Quadraverb,
it was like the D/A converter was directly connected to the CPU data bus, with a deafening digital hash noise for about 5 seconds after power on.


...sounds like me in the mornings.... ::)
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

Guido81

Hi there folks, long time no see, I've bought last year the ROLAND GK-KIT-GT3, I bought a good strat (non fender) to make the installation myself, well with a little help from a friend (who worked with my luthier). I also have my fender strat roland ready as a kind of guide, which I used to figure out the position of the switches and whatnot.
I started reading the first posts in this thread, and I saw the Roland GC-1 schematics, is the only difference the switchcraft 12a jack? If I understood right that's the only difference.

I have the installation manual to scan if necessary, although I saw it already around here.

Cheers

admin

Yes thats only difference and important to implement to retain stock guitar operation and best tone

Guido81

thank you, I found a good deal on ebay, If anyone is interested Switchcraft 12A 1/4
I think it's used on amps and pedals? I believe is the same jack we're speaking of.

Btw @Elantric I'm installing the Trem king on this one ;D I'll post some pics this week in the right thread

Ollii

Hi, I am currently planning to install a GK3 kit in my Strandberg. Instead of the git/synth/git/synth switch shown here, I'm wondering if it can be switched to a göldo "Vario" Rotary Switch with 3 positions ( https://www.goeldo.de/en/detail/index/sArticle/7795 ). Does anyone have any idea? A rotary knob seems a bit more accident-proof than the normal switch. It's silly if you suddenly switch to the wrong setting during a live performance.

Elantric

#398
The GK three way switch actually mutes the opposite unwanted signal

Common  option is use a center off DPDT switch ( like Godin, Brian Moore ) - read this internal  GK Kit thread from the top  for details 

Mount at 90 degrees and away from strumming area to minimize accidental switch operation

I like a robust bat handle DPDT ON-OFF-ON switch


SALECOM Guitar or AMP Amplfier DPDT 3 Way ON OFF ON Toggle Switch Sealed Fat Bat Toggle Switch
https://www.amazon.com/SALECOM-Guitar-Amplifier-Toggle-Switch/dp/B0732SGNFZ/ref=asc_df_B0732PBRDF/


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133.0

Ollii

Could you also use a slide switch? What would you have to buy then?