Luthier kit w/ 13-pin audio in

Started by vtgearhead, August 23, 2017, 06:36:26 AM

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vtgearhead

There's been a lot of discussion about basing an external Autotune box on the luthier kit.  However, the kit is clearly intended to be driven directly from a hex mag pickup, not a higher level buffered source like a GC-1 or other guitar with GK-3 kit installed.  Has anyone actually tried such an arrangement?  Does the DSP board have a lower gain input that's known to be suitable?


cags12

#1
Hi snhirsh,

I presume you opened this based on my last post in another one topic. I am gonna tell you the information I got directly from Antares when I bought my very first kit.

If you read at the Luthier Installation manual, there is a section that reads "Non-Standard Installations" page 54.

In this chapter it is well explained how the Adrian Belew Parker installation was done. If you read closely and see the image below, the input of the ATG board is the output of the 13-pin audio of the RMC polydrive. For this to work the DSP board had to be modified for "unity gain".

When I contacted Antares about the option to purchased the "unity gain" version of the DSP4 board, they advised (after checking with Andy Hildebrand himself) that the piezo version of the DSP4 board was all that would be needed.

So I got the piezo version and have been running it with Graphtech saddles for the moment. I still have the project to convert it to 13-pin when I finish other projects. I am still deciding wether I want an external pedal enclosure controlled fully over MIDI or attempt the parallel internal installation as in the diagram below.

As as side note:
Something interesting, perhaps not related, the DSP4 piezo expects considerable hotter signal than the DSP3 piezo of the AT-200. I cannot drive it with the stock AT-200 piezos, they are too weak.
This might suggest that the DSP3 piezo board of the AT-200 is not suitable for this and would get over-driven by the 13-pin output.

vtgearhead

Thanks, but there's a big difference in signal characteristics between even the hottest piezo pickups and the buffered output from a GK-3.  I will check with Henrik at Antares before plunking down any money.

cags12

#3
Quote from: snhirsch on August 23, 2017, 07:22:19 AM
Thanks, but there's a big difference in signal characteristics between even the hottest piezo pickups and the buffered output from a GK-3.  I will check with Henrik at Antares before plunking down any money.

That is true. The information I got was directly from Henrik and I guess Andy.

I was concerned about the impedance difference but then I assumed that the principle of Impedance Bridging (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_bridging) would apply here. I am not electronics expert but based on this and first hand information from Antares, made me trust it.

Also note, that they might not have piezo versions anymore available. I remember that they had "less than 10" in November last year. Again, their own words.


Ohh, I almost forgot. I have also considered using Cycfi Nu modular pickups with ATG. They are buffered to straight feed GK equipped gear. They have also confirmed that their pickups work with pre-amps made for piezos.

vtgearhead

My concerns are around equalization, not impedance matching.

admin

#5
Quote from: snhirsch on August 23, 2017, 07:22:19 AM
Thanks, but there's a big difference in signal characteristics between even the hottest piezo pickups and the buffered output from a GK-3.  I will check with Henrik at Antares before plunking down any money.

Insert a custom six channel signal attenuator

The situation with utilizing one Hex pick up to drive two separate hexaphonic processing systems is covered in the following threads
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.0
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10117.msg123752#msg123752

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15974.0



cags12

Quote from: snhirsch on August 23, 2017, 07:37:19 AM
My concerns are around equalization, not impedance matching.

Not sure if you are aware but the ATG settings managers allows you to change between Magnetic and piezo input. Thus allowing to change the equalization. I have played with this and the differences are huge.

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: snhirsch on August 23, 2017, 07:37:19 AM
My concerns are around equalization, not impedance matching.

It's the other way around: you should be more concerned about the signal levels to avoid clipping and distortion.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973